p.7 #1 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
PhilPDX wrote:
I would rather prefer some (very) critical views of my work than the kiss-ups who constantly tell me how great I am. The latter might be good for the ego, but limit your ability to grow.
-Phil
Yeah but be careful who you listen to...They could be giving you very bad advice especially when it comes to composition.
p.7 #2 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
airfrogusmc wrote:
So you are saying that a photograph that is a collage is not longer a photograph?
It is not a photograph in the same sense as a capture that represents a real scene, and when it is fabricated to *appear* as if it were a capture of something special and difficult to obtain, and passed off as such without making clear that it is a collage, that is deceptive.
Seriously, is there anyone here at all who can honestly say that Lisa's wagon shot would receive the same response if it were presented as a collage or if that fact were hidden? Really?
airfrogusmc wrote:
You can see and write and think but as Adams said you do not have the right to dictate what others should create.
p.7 #3 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
airfrogusmc wrote:
Oh I guess you can if you burn all the work that you deem degenerate and you can even have a big exhibit and call it the Degenerate Art Exhibit to show everyone what is not expectable. Oh that's right someone else beat you to it...
p.7 #4 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Lisa_Holloway wrote:
'your stuff is boring and all looks the same' ... It's just being a dick.
Go back and look. The first time the word "boring" was used on this thread was by Lisa, not Paul or Charles.
p.7 #5 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
Lisa, you are at the point in your career where you have a defined approach that works for you. Kudos to that for real.
Let's say you get a "Your images are so boring, it's the same shot over and over again." That isnt an argument. That is how someone is seeing the shots you've posted as they compare to your body of work. If you simply say "Thank you for the view, I appreciate your perspective on my work" there is no shitstorm. You then have the option to privately adhere to or dismiss the comments. If someone who never shows their work makes it? Perhaps you should dismiss. If someone who's work you respect says it, maybe listen a bit. But that is up to you to do, privately. Then either apply or dont and move on.
My friend Evan wrote this about photography and I think it's very fitting here. Some good thoughts:
"Perspective
Photography is simply the mechanical articulation of our perspective, and whatever art exists does so because we are interesting people who see things in interesting ways. Progression in photography is refinement of one’s worldview. Skill in photography only serves to elucidate the perspective, never to substitute for it. This is why we are so crushed when our work is rejected or ignored: it invalidates our viewpoint and says that the way we see the world is wrong." (source: http://evanbainesphoto.tumblr.com/post/98927797566/perspective)
p.7 #8 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
charlesk wrote:
It is not a photograph in the same sense as a capture that represents a real scene, and when it is fabricated to *appear* as if it were a capture of something special and difficult to obtain, and passed off as such without making clear that it is a collage, that is deceptive.
Seriously, is there anyone here at all who can honestly say that Lisa's wagon shot would receive the same response if it were presented as a collage or if that fact were hidden? Really?
Good thing I never did that.
I say, don't say anything as did Herny Peach Robinson. It is not relevant in any way except to the creator and how they create. All that matters is the final result. How the soufflé is made is not an issue as long as it's good.
The work of Robison, Uelsmann and Lisa are all photographs and get used to the new world of digital photography.
Just create and don't worry what nice little neat piles folks are putting you creations into. Those labels are also irrelevant.
I'll post it again:
"Let us hope that categories will be less rigid in the future; there has been to much of placing photography into little niches-commercial, pictorial, documentary, and creative(a dismal term). Definitions of this kind are inessential and stupid; good photography remains good photography no matter what we name it. I would like to think of "just photography"; of each and every photograph containing the best qualities in proper degree to achieve its purpose. We have been slaves to categories, and each has served as a kind of concentration camp for the spirit."-Ansel Adams
p.7 #9 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
canerino wrote:
This is why we are so crushed when our work is rejected or ignored: it invalidates our viewpoint and says that the way we see the world is wrong."
In business or science, people question your viewpoint all the time. Are photographers different?
p.7 #10 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
airfrogusmc wrote:
Trying to tell others what they should create and what their work is or isn't is not far form that...
You keep repeating this, yet I don't see where anyone has actually said it. Since you are replying to me most frequently, it would be nice if you could actually provide a quote where I tried to "tell others what they should create". Don't spend too much time, though, because you won't find it.
airfrogusmc wrote:
It is not relevant in any way except to the creator and how they create.
Is it?
I recently entered a wildflower photography contest. The grand prize winner featured a dog whose nose a bee had landed upon, with flowers in the background.
Do you think the judges who voted for that image would have necessarily voted for it if it had just been a dog and the bee and flowers had been photoshopped in?
Some people only care about the end result and not how it came about. But many others like images because they consider them special in some way. Like, say, a baby sitting in a wagon observing a perfect sunset. Or a child reaching up to catch falling leaves. Or a rainbow over the Grand Canyon.
When an image is presented as being special and it is not, the people who perceive it as being something it is not have been deceived. Some may not care, just as some don't care about being deceived in other ways. But many do.
p.7 #11 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
PhilPDX wrote:
In business or science, people question your viewpoint all the time. Are photographers different?
-Phil
And sometimes we are ahead of the curve. Artists like Van Gogh (just one example) were creating but not getting any recognition. 20 years earlier the impressionists were getting chastised for their work and were working outside the established art world they are now considered the important creators during that period and Van Gogh (post impressionism) but with the exception of a few got little real attention during that period they were creating.
"No artist is ahead of his time. He is his time; it is just that others are behind the times."-Martha Graham
That's why it is so important to try and show the world in a way that you see it and don't worry about the praise or the $$$. Now I am talking personal work not commercial work in that statement.
p.7 #12 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
charlesk wrote:
You keep repeating this, yet I don't see where anyone has actually said it. Since you are replying to me most frequently, it would be nice if you could actually provide a quote where I tried to "tell others what they should create". Don't spend too much time, though, because you won't find it.
Is it?
I recently entered a wildflower photography contest. The grand prize winner featured a dog whose nose a bee had landed upon, with flowers in the background.
Do you think the judges who voted for that image would have necessarily voted for it if it had just been a dog and the bee and flowers had been photoshopped in?
Some people only care about the end result and not how it came about. But many others like images because they consider them special in some way. Like, say, a baby sitting in a wagon observing a perfect sunset. Or a child reaching up to catch falling leaves. Or a rainbow over the Grand Canyon.
When an image is presented as being special and it is not, the people who perceive it as being something it is not have been deceived. Some may not care, just as some don't care about being deceived in other ways. But many do....Show more →
So because Lisa see's something and then puts it together all from images she took that is in some way less valid than what Uelsmann did? PLEASE... And I would stay clear of contests like you mentioned. How would they judge Uelsmann's work or John Paul Caponigro's work or Joel Peter Witkins work? None of those would stand in high regard with them from your words and I will look at that work over a dog smelling a flower any day.
p.7 #14 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
You responded, but you didn't answer my question. You don't really want to debate this issue, just sweep it under the carpet with unimpressive appeals to authority.
Again, there is a difference between a collage that is an obvious collage, and one where someone is making something that looks like a single capture but wasn't.
p.7 #15 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
But history is not on your side of this debate. And again Henry Peach Robison's work was not thought to be a collage in the 1850s and it was made to look like a single capture, as you call it, and now that's not a photograph. I say read the history of medium you are debating in. To many have no clue of the history of photography or art. The more you learn the more open your mind might become. It is not an issue in the big scheme of things. All that matters is the work was created period.
it's just as valid to create being post visual and being pre visual. The only part that matters is creating.
How do you feel abut all the mixed media in art today? Coloring and staying it the lines has never been a very creative way to approach anything truly creative. ..
p.7 #16 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
airfrogusmc wrote:
And sometimes we are ahead of the curve. ... That's why it is so important to try and show the world in a way that you see it and don't worry about the praise or the $$$.
I understand what you are saying, but the above would also be true for scientists. If they would take the position that they don't have to care if someone questions their work, there would be no progress. So generally speaking: what would we call 'no progress' in photography/art? Stagnation? Personal style? Arrogance? Just wondering.
p.7 #18 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
But again it comes done to what advice is being given and who is giving it, right? With science and math there are ways to measure and see what is correct and what isn't. History with art and photography can, in some cases, be that for visual things.
And how many questions have you not answered and what is the specific question you are asking? And again you opinion is you opinion but if you are saying the HPRs image is not a photograph that is not based in the way history sees it. You can believe the world is flat to and that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it but that doesn't make it so.
p.7 #20 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
airfrogusmc wrote:
With science and math there are ways to measure and see what is correct and what isn't.
Yes, but since we can't really measure quality in photography/art, we are left with critique as the only (albeit subjective) tool. Why do people ask for CC so often when they should actually...
airfrogusmc wrote:
...show the world in a way that you see it and don't worry about the praise or the $$$.
Archive 2014 · Apparently, I need to dust off my camera and go shooting again...
