Think of it this way (these aren't precise numbers): It used to cost around $4400 to get a 5D2, 24-70 and 580EX. Now, mind you that includes shadow banding and your flash will get thrown out of ETTL occasionally . For a 5D3, 24-70II and 600EX it'll be $6500. For the Nikon D800, 24-70 and flash it's $5400. If Nikon did a firmware update to shoot 18mp with the D800 there'd be no comparison.
anorphirith wrote:
3500$ for the 5D3 ??...... the new features aren't worth 1500$ more than the 5d2 for me, I"m still going to use center focus point, I"m still going to shoot ISO 100-3200. I'd rather buy a new lens for the 1500$. THAT is really going to improve my photography
rscheffler wrote:
The value of the USD vs. the JPY is about 15% lower now than in Sept. 2008 when the 5DII was announced, so you could say the 5DIII in 2008 equivalent dollars is about $3000... not such a huge difference for its better AF, build, etc...
Here's the part I don't get...traditionally as time goes on, if you stay at the same level of technology the price drops, or if you stay at the same pricepoint, the technology improves. And sometimes you get improved technology and a better pricepoint in the same generation.
Consider the historical context. The 5D was introduced at an MSRP of $3299. The 5DII offered revolutionary new features and was introduced at a price of $2699. The 5DIII offers modest improvements over the 5DII and is $3499.
If Canon had come out with this camera a couple of years ago at $3499, I would have understood the premium pricing for improved autofocus and more fps over the 5DII. But three years later, as an update, these improvements seem like they are adequate enough to keep up with the competition, but hardly revolutionary.
So, to sum up, the 2nd generation camera was revolutionary over the 1st generation camera and priced $600 less; the 3rd generation camera is a conservative upgrade to the 2nd generation camera and is priced $800 more.
artd wrote:
Here's the part I don't get...traditionally as time goes on, if you stay at the same level of technology the price drops, or if you stay at the same pricepoint, the technology improves. And sometimes you get improved technology and a better pricepoint in the same generation.
Consider the historical context. The 5D was introduced at an MSRP of $3299. The 5DII offered revolutionary new features and was introduced at a price of $2699. The 5DIII offers modest improvements over the 5DII and is $3499.
If Canon had come out with this camera a couple of years ago at $3499, I would have understood the premium pricing for improved autofocus and more fps over the 5DII. But three years later, as an update, these improvements seem like they are adequate enough to keep up with the competition, but hardly revolutionary.
So, to sum up, the 2nd generation camera was revolutionary over the 1st generation camera and priced $600 less; the 3rd generation camera is a conservative upgrade to the 2nd generation camera and is priced $800 more.
I don't see that Canon is addressing users/buyers like me -- long time Canon owners that want to remain loyal and feel important for their support and commitment to the slightly older gear.
I'm using older gear for the most part, 5D and 1Ds2 for full frame, and a 60D for my "new tech", along with a couple 1D2s for the "low end" high quality work. Having skipped the 5D2 (so far), I like the features of the 5D3, but it would have to be near the 5D2 intro price for me to jump for it. $2800 would make me move. I'll be waiting to see if it comes down in the next six months, and if not, may buy a D800 if it falls a little in price in that time -- $2700, or so. I may also spring for a nice used 5D2 at a low price and wait through this production cycle for the 5D4, or a used 5D3 down the line.
Of course I'd want the battery grip, so I'll need to wait for a knock-off to come out in six months for $100. And don't get me started on the 600EX -- I can still use even the 550EX, along with the 580EX. If the price ends up around $500 the 600EX, then it would look pretty good to me. I've got a nice little SB-700 that would work on a D800 right now, with a D7000 as a back-up.
It's true that it is a business expense, but for a marginal business, it is still a significant expense.
C'mon Canon, show a little support for the loyal folks! We love you.
I'd say this was true if Canon had announced first! But they announced after. I'd venture to say Canon's response to the D800 was keeping the 5D2 in production and moving the 5D3 into a "gap filler" role which it's not.
KaaX wrote:
I would venture a guess that Canon did not anticipate D800 pricing and was caught flat-footed. Nimbleness is not one of Canon's virtues.
Imagine a world where D800 does not exist -- and notice how in that imaginary world Canon's pricing makes a LOT more sense... :-D
Its not getting more expensive in Japan...just here in the states, and you can thank the bankers for that if you don't like it.
Exchange rates determine what we pay for Japanese goods, and they are different now than they were in 2008.
Here's a little info I dug up --
Release price of the 5D II in 2008 was $2700 if Im not mistaken. The exchange rate was 106.92 Yen per dollar in June of that year, making the camera cost 288,684 Yen in Japan.
Release prioce of the 5D III in 2012 will be $3500. The exchange rate now is 81.64 Yen per dollar, meaning the camera costs 285,658 Yen in Japan.
You must be joking about everything is improved a lot from the mkII. Did you really expect it to be a lot better than the 1DX and cost about $ 2k or?
For a next generation camera three years later the improvements seem about what would be expected. I call that modest improvement, yes. And I would expect the pricing to be in line with that. Nowhere did I say I expected it to be a 1DX or cost $2k so please don't try and create a false argument.
You must be joking about everything is improved a lot from the mkII. Did you really expect it to be a lot better than the 1DX and cost about $ 2k or?
Lars, get with the times. It's a modest improvement. Perhaps you aren't taking technological advancement and the timeline into consideration? Do you realize technology is advancing at an exponential rate? The camera is fine, but the price is way too high for a modest improvement.
Chris Beaumont wrote:
Yes......because our prices are only 20% higher??
No, because ignoring VAT makes the comparison quite invalid.
In any case, if you're so upset over this, I believe there are a lot of flights from Heathrow to JFK and B&H is only a short hop on a tube from there... :-)
Doesn't seem to stop working photogs pre-ordering it happily. Check out the wedding section. It seems the specs meets the wedding/pj-portrait needs dead on.
TAGfan wrote:
Its not getting more expensive in Japan...just here in the states, and you can thank the bankers for that if you don't like it.
Exchange rates determine what we pay for Japanese goods, and they are different now than they were in 2008.
Here's a little info I dug up --
Release price of the 5D II in 2008 was $2700 if Im not mistaken. The exchange rate was 106.92 Yen per dollar in June of that year, making the camera cost 288,684 Yen in Japan.
Release prioce of the 5D III in 2012 will be $3500. The exchange rate now is 81.64 Yen per dollar, meaning the camera costs 285,658 Yen in Japan. ...Show more →
Excellent info. Problem is, it appears plenty of us over here won't pay $3,500 for it, regardless of exchange rates. So...in that whole supply/demand thing, if the supply is there and the demand goes down due to price, there's only one way to correct that to move supply...
TAGfan wrote:
Its not getting more expensive in Japan...just here in the states, and you can thank the bankers for that if you don't like it.
Exchange rates determine what we pay for Japanese goods, and they are different now than they were in 2008.
Here's a little info I dug up --
Release price of the 5D II in 2008 was $2700 if Im not mistaken. The exchange rate was 106.92 Yen per dollar in June of that year, making the camera cost 288,684 Yen in Japan.
Release prioce of the 5D III in 2012 will be $3500. The exchange rate now is 81.64 Yen per dollar, meaning the camera costs 285,658 Yen in Japan. ...Show more →
Yeah I'm sure the exchange rate doesn't help. Though as I recall the exchange rate started plummeting in 2009 a few months after the 5DII was released, and while there were some price hikes for lenses, the 5DII stayed at the same price.
But we can also look at Nikon as an example. Targeting roughly the same pricepoint, they released the D700 in 2008 at an MSRP of $2999, and in 2012 they've hit that same price with the D800.
Regardless of the reasons, from a consumer's standpoint, the 5DIII does not carry with it the same appeal of being a great value.
Gunzorro wrote:
I don't see that Canon is addressing users/buyers like me -- long time Canon owners that want to remain loyal and feel important for their support and commitment to the slightly older gear.
I'm using older gear for the most part, 5D and 1Ds2 for full frame, and a 60D for my "new tech", along with a couple 1D2s for the "low end" high quality work. Having skipped the 5D2 (so far), I like the features of the 5D3, but it would have to be near the 5D2 intro price for me to jump for it. $2800 would make me move. I'll be waiting to see if it comes down in the next six months, and if not, may buy a D800 if it falls a little in price in that time -- $2700, or so. I may also spring for a nice used 5D2 at a low price and wait through this production cycle for the 5D4, or a used 5D3 down the line.
Of course I'd want the battery grip, so I'll need to wait for a knock-off to come out in six months for $100. And don't get me started on the 600EX -- I can still use even the 550EX, along with the 580EX. If the price ends up around $500 the 600EX, then it would look pretty good to me. I've got a nice little SB-700 that would work on a D800 right now, with a D7000 as a back-up.
It's true that it is a business expense, but for a marginal business, it is still a significant expense.
C'mon Canon, show a little support for the loyal folks! We love you. ...Show more →
For my business .. the 5Dmkiii is a sweet camera.
Seriously people ... for those that live in the US ... you live in the land of over indulgence.
A little price increase and you are screaming.
and as for price increase - why would a new camera cost the same as an earlier model?
and for the marginal business ... why not work on the business than adding a new tool?
wait .... that is the sensible thing to do. Thats not fun.
i forgot ... we americans want our ice cream and cake.... my bad.
And i do get out of the country ... like next week ... and see a different perspective.
artd wrote: The 5DII came out at $2699, and, as I recall, stayed at the price for quite a long time.
Yes, stayed at that price for 11 months.
AGeoJo wrote:Judging by the overwhelmingly negative tones here, the orders of the early adopters it certainly sounds that they will be filled fairly soon.
Posts at dPreview on 5DIII price are equally negative. I think 5DIII buyers are extremely price sensitive. It it was offered at $2700, demand would stay high for a year, like the 5DII.
At this price, I think demand will quickly be satisfied. Then there will be a face off between Canon and buyers. Canon was quite aware of the relative value of D800 pricing. Canon took the risk, and I think the level of 5DIII sales will prove they made a mistake.
TAGfan wrote:
Its not getting more expensive in Japan...just here in the states, and you can thank the bankers for that if you don't like it.
Exchange rates determine what we pay for Japanese goods, and they are different now than they were in 2008.
Here's a little info I dug up --
Release price of the 5D II in 2008 was $2700 if Im not mistaken. The exchange rate was 106.92 Yen per dollar in June of that year, making the camera cost 288,684 Yen in Japan.
Release prioce of the 5D III in 2012 will be $3500. The exchange rate now is 81.64 Yen per dollar, meaning the camera costs 285,658 Yen in Japan. ...Show more →
Central bankers keying in all those new digital dollars is showing up real bad in premium Japanese camera gear.
gocolts wrote:
Excellent info. Problem is, it appears plenty of us over here won't pay $3,500 for it, regardless of exchange rates. So...in that whole supply/demand thing, if the supply is there and the demand goes down due to price, there's only one way to correct that to move supply...
just curious .... does the US set the market on the 5Dmkiii?
maybe in your world ... no ... but there are plenty of wedding shooters and video shooter (around the world) who will purchase this camera.
another thought ... more expensive in Japan? Have you lived over there.... Tokyo is one if not the most expensive cities to live in.
. For a 5D3, 24-70II and 600EX it'll be $6500. For the Nikon D800, 24-70 and flash it's $5400. If Nikon did a firmware update to shoot 18mp with the D800 there'd be no comparison.
