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Archive 2013 · Issue with eyes.
  
 
samfowler
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Issue with eyes.


I have been trying my best to get these eyes straight and right and cant do it - I have tried many times in Photoshop and for some reason it just doesn't look right. So I am going to throw this at you all, and see if someone can get these eyes straight and like it should look for eyes. If you want to give it a try I can send the original to you. Let me know.

Thanks


Link



Jan 31, 2013 at 09:09 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Issue with eyes.


You might have more success if you imbed the image in your post. It's pretty easy to do. Anyway, I'm getting an error when clicking your link.


Jan 31, 2013 at 09:19 PM
Bob Jarman
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Issue with eyes.


From a quick glance, perhaps the sclera of her left eye, closest to bridge of nose, should be not so bright. And looking again, maybe my imagination, but the (her) left side of her face seems slightly larger than the right. I realize most faces are asymmetric but this seems accented, perhaps in part by coloring and shading.

Don't know if GoogleDrive works for all - I have an account, maybe Doug does not?

:

Bob



Jan 31, 2013 at 09:45 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Issue with eyes.


Here's a crop for others to more readily see the area in question.







Jan 31, 2013 at 09:53 PM
samfowler
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Issue with eyes.


Thank you Rusty. When a print is made - the eyes are really noticeably off or crooked and makes the print look really weird. Just wondering if there is a way to fix.


Jan 31, 2013 at 09:55 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Issue with eyes.


Looking at her lower eyelid, it seems as the lighting (assumed Rembrandt effort) has caught a bit more of the eye than just the classic triangle on the cheekbone, giving an uneven illumination to the eye itself as the there is now a key/shadow area cutting through her pupil.

While this appears to be the cause ... the fix that I've tried is to reduce the gamma and exposure for that portion of the eye (near bridge) to better match the farther side so that here left eye better appears to be equally illuminated rather than split down the middle by key/shadow.

In addition to the sclera itself (1st image), I pulled back on the lower eyelid and the bright spot just below it. I also pulled back a bit just below the brow (far side) to try and suggest a more even illumination that doesn't compete for attention with the "triangle". Not dialed in real well, but hopefully you get the gist.

















Jan 31, 2013 at 10:13 PM
cgardner
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Issue with eyes.


An asymmetrical lighting pattern on a nose-at-camera symmetrical full face view makes a face seem lopsided. The darker the shadows the greater the imbalance perceived. It is one of many optical illusions seen in portrait lighting.

A skilled portrait photographer can use it to make an asymmetrical face look more balanced by putting the key light on the naturally narrower side then adjusting the lighting ratio / shadow tone by eye until balance between the left and right sides looks "right".

"Short" lighting (45 degrees to the side OF NOSE and 45 degrees above eye line)on an oblique view creates a similar illusion because the brain focuses the most attention on the highlighted front "mask" of the face. It's asymmetry (facial angle hides one side of face) + asymmetry (shadows of lighting pattern hide the other side) = symmetrical looking front of the face.

Here we have a very symmetrical face looking lopsided by a poor choice of pattern and ratio. Centered pattern would look more symmetrical on her face. Lighter shadows would be more flattering and a better match to the body language of the expression inviting eye contact.

Read my tutorials on facial analysis at: http://photo.nova.org

The fact the catchlights are at 9 o clock is is also a reason the eyes don't seem to look "right" copy/paste and rotate each eye separately to put catchlight at 10 o clock and compare. Raise bare arm is also a distraction from the face and like the lighting strategy works against the symmetry of the pose.

It's a nice shot, but the perceptual pieces of the puzzle aren't a good match. That's why it doesn't look "right" subconsciously. I just understand what clues trigger that subconscious reaction. Just part of the learning curve I've just helped you leapfrog up...

Edited on Jan 31, 2013 at 11:17 PM · View previous versions



Jan 31, 2013 at 10:51 PM
 

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RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Issue with eyes.


Chuck makes a good point at yet another aspect of how being a good portrait photographer (which I'm not) is so much more than most people would give credence to. I suspect if she wasn't looking square on at us, it wouldn't seem as noticeable like Bob mentioned as well.

Blending the technical aspects and the people aspects is no small feat. Personally, I come up short on both aspects relative to portraiture ... I've still not fully grasped short/broad lighting of classic portrait lighting (or much else @ portraiture) so I shoot railroad tracks and pretzels.

Curious to hear Karen's take on this as well. Not sure if she has some portrait PP magic (like thinify, etc.) that could help here or not.



Jan 31, 2013 at 11:02 PM
cgardner
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Issue with eyes.


Here's a quick edit in which I lightened the shadows overall with a middle slider levels correction then selectively lightened the nose and other shadows where you side fill got shaded with by the cheekbone with cloning off a brighter skin area. I also rotated the catchlights as I suggested.

Please understand this edit is not a suggestion to fix this one after the fact but rather a suggestion for a more flattering lighting strategy to try next time by moving the key light around towards the front of the face more and using more fill. If you center the fill just under the camera lens you'll avoid very harsh unfilled areas around the nose (fill shaded by cheekbone) and the dark mouth and teeth. Fill needs to reach everything the camera sees to avoid harsh unfilled areas like that in the lighting pattern:







When you approach lighting it can be with the goal of "I want to do a Rembrandt pattern" or "I want to look at the shape of the face and find the most flattering combination of light angle, camera angle and fill ratio". Neither is good nor bad, right or wrong, just different. Set your goal, define criteria for success, then use the criteria to determine if what you tried worked or not.

So if your goal was to do a Rembrandt the original is a success, but I think she's flattered more without the harsh dark shadows. As mentioned I also think she'd be flattered more with a centered pattern. Next time try both and the oblique/short lit combination and decide for yourself by comparison which flatters her most.

Edited on Feb 01, 2013 at 11:29 AM · View previous versions



Feb 01, 2013 at 12:41 AM
Bob Jarman
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Issue with eyes.


Taking RustyBug's crop, applying liquify filter to (her) left side of face, adding gradient in LR4 and backing down sclera another approach - did not fiddle with colors...

Dont' know if this improves or not.

Bob







Feb 01, 2013 at 12:49 AM
Eyeball
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Issue with eyes.


I think the biggest reason that the eyes seem different sizes is due to inconsistent application of the eye make-up. Some of it may also be due to the high-reflectivity nature of that under-eye makeup and how it responds differently on the lit and unlit portions of the face, but it really looks to me like the undereyes were made-up differently. Here is an animated GIF that I think shows how much of an effect this has:







The smaller catchlight in the eye on the right I think also contributes to the perception of that eye being smaller. I didn't correct that in the GIF. I don't see how re-positioning the catchlights changes the perception at all. Moving the light when the photo was taken would have changed things but I don't see what moving the orientation of the catchlight achieves in post.



Feb 01, 2013 at 01:34 AM
Eyeball
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Issue with eyes.


Here is one final go. I think I actually used Kent's edit for my previous example. Here is one with the original crop that Kent posted without his edits.

I did three primary things:
1. Adjusted the under-eye make-up as in my previous example. I copy pasted the under-eye from her right eye to her left and blended it in with a combination of Curves, masking, and opacity.
2. I darkened the bright line in her make-up above the eye.
3. I lightened up and extended her left eyebrow.

I also reduced the brightness of the catchlight in her left eye a tiny bit.

I didn't use Liquify or otherwise change the size of the eye.

Her head is slightly tilted. Rotating the image slightly would probably help correct any remaining impression that the eyes are crooked.









Feb 01, 2013 at 02:26 PM
cgardner
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Issue with eyes.


Not to diminish or discourage the retouching efforts by those who don't understand the cause and effect of portrait lighting to the degree I do. The OP should recognize that despite the improvements due to PP, other than cloning out the areas of shaded fill there's no way to fix the root cause of the problem making the lighting harsh and unflattering in this shot: the harsh darker shadow on the nose vs. the one on the side of the face.

Here it isn't a function of the Rembrandt lighting pattern or key light modifier size and wrap, it's due to the fact the shot appears to have been filled with a reflector on the right placed behind the face which was shaded on the right side of the nose and on the right corner of the mouth by the cheek. The upper cheek and lips are shading the fill in the mouth.

Sometimes there is no good way to fix poor lighting decisions in PP. All you can do is learn from them and not repeat the same mistakes next time. To get fill into those areas on the front of the face the fill source must be in front of the face. Fill the shadows with a centered fill source (second flash) THEN add the reflector on the side to nuance them. That's what I did here:

















I stood on a stool with camera lens just under the dish "key" light with centered fill coming from the SB with a round mask below attached to the same stand. Two Larson reflectors bounced the key and fill back into the sides for a "kicker" effect. There is a fourth light hidden behind the mat board (to kill spill) lighting the background. I don't have space for two background lights on the sides so I fix white backgrounds in PP.




Feb 01, 2013 at 03:41 PM





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