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Archive 2012 · sold lens buyers wants to return
  
 
mswobo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · sold lens buyers wants to return


Not trying to start anything here,,,just looking for advice..

Details...this did not happen on FM..

I sold a lens and the buyer after 8 days of receiving lens wants to return lens saying he's not happy with focusing.

Now he wants a refund.

Is eight days kind of a long time to contact me?

I looked at some recent pics I took and to my eye, which is not very good, look ok.

What would you do? refund or is 8 days to long.

I want to do the right thing I have sold and bought at least 50 times through photo forums with no issues.



Jun 20, 2012 at 03:24 AM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · sold lens buyers wants to return


If he had it in his hands for those 8 days, then yes...way too long!
I can check out a lens in 2 or 3 minutes Methinks you're looking at
a case buyer's remorse or he found one cheaper after purchasing yours.

There is a possibility his body/technique is to blame, but that's hardly your fault.
You're call on the return, but I'd be inclined to say "sorry, Charlie"...it's a done deal.



Jun 20, 2012 at 11:19 AM
Mickey
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · sold lens buyers wants to return


Who says the focus issue (if there is one) is the lens fault. I'm with TM on this one. Your call. How generous do you feel.


Jun 20, 2012 at 11:51 AM
mlife
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · sold lens buyers wants to return


if you are talking about the "bay", their "pal" will not give you a choice under their "buyer protection" plan... if that person opens an "item not as described" case they seem to side with these scammers EVERY TIME which is why I no longer sell on that site.

for your sake, I hope thats not the case.




Jun 20, 2012 at 02:06 PM
omarlyn
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · sold lens buyers wants to return


I usually place in my FS & WTB ads a disclaimer to allow a 3 day inspection period...I think that's plenty of time to allow a proper inspection with a little leeway in case the buyer is out of town or busy. Three days max after receipt is what I give buyers and what I ask for myself as a buyer.

Omar



Jun 20, 2012 at 02:21 PM
mswobo
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · sold lens buyers wants to return


Was not on Bay but was pal payment ....


Jun 21, 2012 at 01:59 AM
mokofoko
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · sold lens buyers wants to return


I am the buyer in this case. Regardless of the "gut feelings" that fellow sellers may have, paypal has a defined 45-day dispute period--and beyond that, a credit card chargeback may be filed within 90-days of the posting date.

I was waiting on a cowboy LED macro ringflash to be shipped to me before I started playing with the macro setup, so no, I don't think 8 days was a long time to wait.

I've currently got 84-positive buying/selling feedbacks here, nary a complaint, and I've done roughly the same amount of business over on POTN (search in marketplace section):
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/feedback/221326

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/member.php?u=250741

The lens may be plenty accurate on his body, but it severely front-focuses (+20 MA) on all 3 of mine (5d2, 1ds2, 10d)--and only one of them actually has MA capability. The issue is consistently repeatable at all distances, be it 1:1, or 30 feet away. Not acceptable. Not acceptable at all. The seller immediately refused my request for a return, and instead offered a $30 refund. Sigmas price for calibration of a lens of this class is approximately $100, and doesn't include the shipping costs or the wasted time (from 2-4 weeks repair).

I don't like getting emotional over such things, but I don't like having my time wasted. I like it even less when I'm being treated as a criminal. Seriously now, what exactly can I do with a lens over the course of 8 days that I could not do in 2-3 days? Considering it was sent via USPS, I wouldn't doubt that the box was dropped a good number of times already.

Edited on Jun 21, 2012 at 04:57 AM · View previous versions



Jun 21, 2012 at 04:22 AM
mokofoko
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · sold lens buyers wants to return


trenchmonkey wrote:
If he had it in his hands for those 8 days, then yes...way too long!
I can check out a lens in 2 or 3 minutes Methinks you're looking at
a case buyer's remorse or he found one cheaper after purchasing yours.

There is a possibility his body/technique is to blame, but that's hardly your fault.
You're call on the return, but I'd be inclined to say "sorry, Charlie"...it's a done deal.

If the calibration of all 3 of my camera bodies are off, then I'll be a trenchmonkey's uncle All of my other lenses are dead accurate on all of my bodies, including a Sigma 85mm 1.4 and a Sigma 50 1.4 (as well as a Sigma 70-200 that I recently got rid of).

I'm sure a number of you are working professionals, and understand that there are concerns in life that go beyond testing toys as soon as they show up. I'll also reiterate that I was awaiting the arrival of a cheapo ring-flash.

It should be obvious that I'm no scammer. This is only buyers remorse in the sense that I didn't get what I had bargained for. Sure, I could use this lens with a +20 MA on my 5d2, but what about my other bodies?



Jun 21, 2012 at 04:54 AM
laxlife1234
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · sold lens buyers wants to return


I'm on Moko's side. He's way smarter about any purchases I've ever made and way more trustworthy than probably anyone I know of. I don't really think 8 days is a bad time, but if the seller sold him a faulty lens it should be the sellers responsibility to get it fixed.




Jun 21, 2012 at 05:26 AM
VinnieJ
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · sold lens buyers wants to return


The rule with Paypal is 45 days so 8 days is insignificant here. If you start having disputes through Paypal they will start tightening the noose on you to the point you won't want to use them anymore.


Jun 21, 2012 at 09:07 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



mlife
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · sold lens buyers wants to return


mswobo wrote:
I looked at some recent pics I took and to my eye, which is not very good, look ok.

What would you do? refund or is 8 days to long.


Sounds like your eyes may need to be checked after reading the buyers side of the story.... do the right thing and refund his money.



Jun 21, 2012 at 10:28 AM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · sold lens buyers wants to return


Having heard from the "other side" now (monkey's uncle) just let PP handle it.
Hopefully the buyer used a CC to further cover his butt. You boys need to communicate better
Sample shots on one body don't necessarily mean you should expect the same IQ on one of yours.
Pointing out the obvious here, but this is the chance you take when buying used to save a few bucks.
I still think the 8 days is BS, but I'd refund the money...just to keep my perfect 399 positives here.



Jun 21, 2012 at 11:12 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · sold lens buyers wants to return


I'd refund it too, but not until I got the lens back and verified that it's in the same condition as when shipped out.

You can have problems anywhere. I had a major fail on an FM sale earlier this year, for an EF 300/2.8L IS at approx $4000. I warned the US buyer that he'd have to pay tax and handling fees at the border, but he declined to do so, and so the lens came back. Probably a bad case of buyer's remorse. Anyway, I later sold it on theBay to a pro shooter in Sweden. Normally, I don't sell something this expensive outside of CA/US, because the cost for insured shipping is so incredibly high. In this case, I was actually going to be in Sweden a couple of weeks later, and so I hand delivered it. Saved her a ton of money for both shipping and VAT.



Jun 21, 2012 at 12:26 PM
omarlyn
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · sold lens buyers wants to return


mokofoko wrote:
I am the buyer in this case. Regardless of the "gut feelings" that fellow sellers may have, paypal has a defined 45-day dispute period--and beyond that, a credit card chargeback may be filed within 90-days of the posting date.

I was waiting on a cowboy LED macro ringflash to be shipped to me before I started playing with the macro setup, so no, I don't think 8 days was a long time to wait.



You guys need to not take your 'drty laundry' so public and handle this either privately or legally if necesary.

In any case, since you did 'go public' with your version of the events, I will give you my opinion...although I'm inclined to take your side due (mainly) to your B&S history and the other member's lack of history, I will add the following: You are taking advantage of the 'PayPal 45/90 day rule'...you should have done your inspection within 3 days (at most!). Waiting 8 days and then using the the ridiculous 45/90 day clause is completely bogus! So if I buy a lens from you, you'd be prefectly fine (100% no issue) if I wanted to return it to you 45 days after I receive it, right? You wouldn't be bothered and you'll accept the return with a full refund, right...I mean it is (after-all) all proper and legal under the 45 day dispute period that you stated above, right? Hmmm...I wouldn't sell anything to anyone that was going to hold me over the coals for 45 days on a used item...no way! 3 days...that's what I give...that's what you'll get from me...period.

My 2 cents,
Omar



Jun 21, 2012 at 01:20 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · sold lens buyers wants to return


mokofoko,

did you inform seller prior to completing the transaction with him that you were waiting on the delivery of the ringflash, and that it would be 8 days out before it arrived, and that you couldn't complete your evaluation of the lens until that item arrived, and that you'd appreciate being given the additional time to do that? Just askin.....



Jun 21, 2012 at 01:52 PM
Binh Ly
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · sold lens buyers wants to return


omarlyn wrote:
In any case, since you did 'go public' with your version of the events, I will give you my opinion...although I'm inclined to take your side due (mainly) to your B&S history and the other member's lack of history, I will add the following: You are taking advantage of the 'PayPal 45/90 day rule'...you should have done your inspection within 3 days (at most!). Waiting 8 days and then using the the ridiculous 45/90 day clause is completely bogus! So if I buy a lens from you, you'd be prefectly fine (100% no issue) if I wanted to return it
...Show more

+1!

The lens may be defective, but there is no reason you can't determine that within 15 minutes after receiving the lens. If someone did complain and return a lens to me after 2-3 days, I'd probably take it back but I don't think I'd deal with them in the future. It has nothing do with Paypal rules or anything like that. If you buy a used lens and expect the seller to be store (i.e. you can do what you want for 30 days and then decide to return it for any reason - legit or otherwise), then that's what buying new is for - Amazon, B&H, and all those stores have the policy just for this kind of expectation.



Jun 21, 2012 at 04:09 PM
mswobo
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · sold lens buyers wants to return


I was not trying to air dirty laundry.

I am sure buyer is an outstanding citizen on forums.

I have only bought here several times and another forum have bought and sold at least 50 times with at least 10 lens sales by me.

I believe both buyer and seller are honest and not trying to scam anyone.

I was just trying to be vauge and ask others how they would handle the situation. I don't want anyone to pass judgement on an individual.

We all can be right and wrong on how we may handle something and was seeking counsel on situation. I did not post this on forum where sale tookl place. my intention was not to burn anyone



Jun 21, 2012 at 08:06 PM
mokofoko
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · sold lens buyers wants to return


I understand very well that calibration varies between bodies--and whether or not the lens perfectly focused on someone else's body is really of no concern to me. I have 3 bodies to test with, and that's what I used. In my case, the lens is not acceptable.

Paypal has already ruled in my favor, and I have already shipped it out with insurance and signature confirmation. Paypal will refund the full amount once it is confirmed delivered.



Jun 21, 2012 at 11:11 PM
mokofoko
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · sold lens buyers wants to return


anthonysemone wrote:
mokofoko,

did you inform seller prior to completing the transaction with him that you were waiting on the delivery of the ringflash, and that it would be 8 days out before it arrived, and that you couldn't complete your evaluation of the lens until that item arrived, and that you'd appreciate being given the additional time to do that? Just askin.....

I did not. Doing such a thing would merely be a courtesy, and not a requirement--but I see where you're going with that. Whether I informed him or not, I would have proceeded in the same manner. Had I thought about it, I would have let him know.


Edited on Jun 22, 2012 at 11:05 AM · View previous versions



Jun 21, 2012 at 11:13 PM
mokofoko
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · sold lens buyers wants to return


omarlyn wrote:
You guys need to not take your 'drty laundry' so public and handle this either privately or legally if necesary.

In any case, since you did 'go public' with your version of the events, I will give you my opinion...although I'm inclined to take your side due (mainly) to your B&S history and the other member's lack of history, I will add the following: You are taking advantage of the 'PayPal 45/90 day rule'...you should have done your inspection within 3 days (at most!). Waiting 8 days and then using the the ridiculous 45/90 day clause is completely bogus! So
...Show more

While your opinion is appreciated, and I would not consider your line of thinking illogical--paypal does not care what you think. And they have evolved their dispute procedures based on credit card chargeback procedures. They're standardized protections, and you are given plenty of time to test. Had the lens failed completely within that 30-50 day period, I'd have kept my options open as well. Protections are there for a reason, and only a fool would not use them when needed.

You're free to have whatever returns period you want specified in your listings, but paypal doesn't care what you want. If a buyer wants a return 20 days later, they will get it. Be stubborn if you wish, but you will lose--I learned this the hard way several years ago. If you want to completely protect your butt in all situations, sell on craigslist, or only accept money orders.


Edited on Jun 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM · View previous versions



Jun 21, 2012 at 11:18 PM
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