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Archive 2011 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power
  
 
dorian
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


i use a 7D for all my nature photography and am quite happy with it. a friend today sent
me some bird photos he took with his his 5D mark II and man were they sharp and clean. with my 7D i basically toss anything where i have to crop out >50% of the full frame image, but with his images, i feel as though i could keep as little as 15% of the frame and still get very usable images. is the difference really as big as it i seems? would the cropping power of a 1D mark IV approach that of the 5D mark II? lemme know.....

thanks

dorian



Dec 07, 2011 at 10:51 PM
abqnmusa
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power






Edited on Feb 20, 2012 at 06:27 AM · View previous versions



Dec 07, 2011 at 11:00 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


For birds and other wildlife, if you were using the same lens from the same distance you'd need to crop more with the 5D versus the 7D, so it's good that it retains detail so well.


Dec 08, 2011 at 09:37 AM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


I've done extreme cropping on 5D2 birdshots.... detail holds up well indeed.

Here's an example:

http://www.romyocon.net/2011/12/microscopic-pygmy-flowerpecker.html

That said, when focal length limited, I still prefer using my 7D over the 5D2. Here's a comparo between the two bodies shot with the same lens from the same distance.

http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/7dvs5d2



Dec 08, 2011 at 10:16 AM
Breitling65
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


dorian wrote:
i use a 7D for all my nature photography and am quite happy with it. a friend today sent
me some bird photos he took with his his 5D mark II and man were they sharp and clean. with my 7D i basically toss anything where i have to crop out >50% of the full frame image, but with his images, i feel as though i could keep as little as 15% of the frame and still get very usable images. is the difference really as big as it i seems? would the cropping power of a 1D mark IV approach
...Show more



That is main reason I don't like 1.6 crop camera. 1.3 is perfect in this case.



Dec 08, 2011 at 10:19 AM
Daan B
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


I don't shoot birds. But since I use the center AF point of my 5D2 almost exclusively, I crop a lot in PP to compensate. I still end up with enough data for bigger prints (20x30cm at least). 21MP + FF sensor (=lower noise output) + sharp lenses =


Dec 08, 2011 at 10:24 AM
Geert Koning
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


To get the same reach from a 5D2 you have to crop it to 8mp
If you crop a 7D image to 9mp you have to crop the 5D2 to 4mp

Can 4mp be sharper than 9 mp, i don't know maybe if the per pixel sharpnes is much better. Would be interesting then I could do everything with one camera and do not need a crop camera for birding.

Here is an interesting test:

http://adunnphotography.blogspot.com/2009/12/canon-7d-review-focusing-on-focus.html



Dec 08, 2011 at 10:26 AM
Tenn.Jer
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


Daan B wrote:
21MP + FF sensor (=lower noise output) + sharp lenses =


+1



Dec 08, 2011 at 11:33 AM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


Geert Koning wrote:
To get the same reach from a 5D2 you have to crop it to 8mp
If you crop a 7D image to 9mp you have to crop the 5D2 to 4mp

Can 4mp be sharper than 9 mp, i don't know maybe if the per pixel sharpnes is much better. Would be interesting then I could do everything with one camera and do not need a crop camera for birding.


I use and love both cameras but the increased noise of the 7D makes large crops far less appealing than doing the same on the 5D2.



Dec 08, 2011 at 06:57 PM
 

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Eyvind Ness
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


The cropping power of the 5DmkII is amazing. Is it the bigger pixels that does it? I don't know. I just know I strongly prefer the 5DmkII whenever there is a need to crop.

I also own a 1DmkIV and a 40D, both inferior to the 5DmkII when cropping or when doing high ISO. The 1D is closest, of course.



Dec 08, 2011 at 08:36 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


I have both 5Ds and a 7D. I like a final file size of about 12 MP, close to the 5Dc size - probably from habit of liking it so much. With the 5D2 I'll often crop down to 5Dc size ~1.25 if I've nailed the capture. With the 7D, more often than not I'm averaging down to a 5Dc size ~.85. But you have to remember you are starting with a 1.6 crop factor on the 7D so it still yields the higher "reach" image for a given lens. If you're not reach limited, reach for the 5D.

This is not to say the 7D doesn't provide for plenty of cropability for composing or straightening horizons and it can yield some wonderful images in good conditions. My experience with it is tainted by the fact that I tend to use it when I'm reach limited or conditions are otherwise compromised such as by trying to capture action. The 7D body sure has some nice features too.

Edited on Dec 08, 2011 at 09:57 PM · View previous versions



Dec 08, 2011 at 09:44 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


Gochugogi wrote:
I use and love both cameras but the increased noise of the 7D makes large crops far less appealing than doing the same on the 5D2.


I find if you can ensure the 7D exposure is to the right as far as possible and you are careful with PP, then heavy crops can indeed stand up very well, even at ISO 400, but that would be my limit. It's very similar to the Nikon D2x in it has a small sweet spot where the IQ really sings. Outside this range IQ can drop rapidly. Get it a bit wrong, and the IQ can appear terrible. I had my 7D adjusted for low ISO graininess which appears to have helped somewhat. The 5D II is much more forgiving, as is my 1D III.

I regularly crop 50% from the 7D, but have even pushed the 1D III further than that at been amazed how well it stands up.

I would really hope a 7D II does not increase pixel density, but focuses on IQ improvements and reducing noise across the full ISO range as well as further improving the AF.



Dec 08, 2011 at 09:49 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


dorian wrote:
i use a 7D for all my nature photography and am quite happy with it. a friend today sent
me some bird photos he took with his his 5D mark II and man were they sharp and clean. with my 7D i basically toss anything where i have to crop out >50% of the full frame image, but with his images, i feel as though i could keep as little as 15% of the frame and still get very usable images. is the difference really as big as it i seems? would the cropping power of a 1D mark IV approach
...Show more

When you are able to fill the frame with either body the 5D2 certainly wins for subject detail but when you are distance limited your 7D handily beats his 5D2. You are not comparing things on any even basis. Sure, if you crop each bird to be 300x300 the 5D2 looks crisper but if both birds ended up taking up 300x300 pixels it also means that you shot from closer in with the 5D2.

Standing in the same spot, using the same focal length and with the subject remaining the same distance away the 7D puts more detail on the subject, it doesn't matter that the 100% view is a touch less crisp, it has more detail. Try scaling the bird from the 5D2 up so that it takes as many pixels and then look and you see the 5D2 bird looks blocky/blurry compared to the 7D bird (or heck scale the 7D bird down carefully to 5D2 size and then tell me which one is crisper and has less demosasic artifacts etc.).



Dec 08, 2011 at 09:54 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


Gochugogi wrote:
I use and love both cameras but the increased noise of the 7D makes large crops far less appealing than doing the same on the 5D2.


yes but you forget that he is talking about when distance limited and the bird will still get project to the same sized area on either sensor but since the 7D sensor it a trace more sensitive per area when you compare the result fairly, on a normalized basis, the 7D bird actually has a trace LESS noise

sure if you want to make use of the extra detail then you may have to deal with more noise and at some point the noise will mask any extra detail or much or it or may be too objectionable, but that still doesn't make the 7D worse, it still always does at least as well or better (it can always be made to do it with a trace less noise and less demoasic artifacts and it can often be made to do it instead with a bit more noise but more detail)

of course this is distance limited only, frame the subject the same way on both and 5D2 wins

and yeah a given level of crop is more satisfying from a 5D2 but that forgets that when you needed to crop you were probably distance limited so you won't need to crop the 7D as much and it actually wins, in the end, for total detail after cropping



Dec 08, 2011 at 09:58 PM
dorian
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


thanks for the help folks. yeah when shooting birds i am almost ALWAYS distance limited so it is s bit tougher to make the comparison between the camera since most people talk about photographing things that don't immediately disappear (people, landscapes etc etc etc) when you get close to them!


Dec 08, 2011 at 11:11 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


skibum5 wrote:
yes but you forget that he is talking about when distance limited and the bird will still get project to the same sized area on either sensor but since the 7D sensor it a trace more sensitive per area when you compare the result fairly, on a normalized basis, the 7D bird actually has a trace LESS noise

sure if you want to make use of the extra detail then you may have to deal with more noise and at some point the noise will mask any extra detail or much or it or may be too objectionable, but that still
...Show more

I was speaking from my personal experience shooting landscape and travel images. I'm sure you can find many situations where the 7D's special characteristics will prove an advantage over other cameras (that's why I use both). Nevertheless, 5D2 files rarely need NR whereas I use NR on nearly every 7D file, even fairly low ISO. Doesn't mean I don't ultimately get great results from both cameras, but the 7D makes me work a lot harder in PP adjusting both color and noise.



Dec 09, 2011 at 12:27 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


Gochugogi wrote:
... the 7D makes me work a lot harder in PP adjusting both color and noise.


Thats been my experience as well. Although the final images might be a touch better, the 40D was easier to use in this respect.



Dec 09, 2011 at 12:37 AM
splathrop
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 7D vs 5D mark II cropping power


Liquidstone, interesting comparison. I wonder how that would come out if you applied less sharpening by percent, but used .3 pixels, and did the sharpening before enlargement.


Dec 09, 2011 at 02:42 AM





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