burningheart wrote:
I started out using Auto for the 1st couple of days with the Monochrom, since then it has been all Manual. Use base ISO320 most of the time. Getting better at judging the correct associated aperature. Carry with me my .9 ND so I can also shoot wide open when desired. I do wish they had a lower base ISO for the monochrome.
One thing I find interesting is when people notice I have Leica the conversation usually goes like this.
Is that a Leica?
I respond It's the Monochrom
They respond Ahhhhhhhh
The tone of there voice is excitement when they are initially guessing and enquiring it is a Leica. Almost in awe. They aren't sure since there is no red Leica on the front. Then their tone changes to one in total awe much like seeing a movie star they admire when they hear it is the Monochrom and they are just totally awestruck saying nothing else and just keeping looking in amazement. Funny I never got that type of reaction with my PanFujiCanikons. With them people usually start talking about shots they have taken or talk about the equipment they owned. The Leica is just as if it were a precious jewel to be admired from a distance and not talked about.
Oh well my planned day of shooting is out the window, I have to go for a training run today since it will be raining for the next three days. Planned on a training distance of a 1/2 marathon tomorrow but alas have to go today instead. Trip to the Ukrainian Village is off. Today is their last day till next May. At least I have some shots from a couple of weeks ago.
Given price of Leica, in some countries, you hold value of average new car in your hand. Plus seeing Monochrom outside shop is like black unicorn. I would probably look in amazement too.. Never saw anyone with Leica anyway here.
adamdewilde wrote:
How does it give you the control you want? Technically it doesn't give you any control. I know you can set your shutter speed to something your comfortable with, and you can set your aperture to wide open or stopped down.. But if you shoot a black wall, you're going to overexpose, if you shoot a white sky you're going to unexposed. There's no control when any one of the three basic functions are handled by the camera
Honestly, here's how I view ISO on an M camera. Indoors I automatically set it to 1600-3200 pending the location. And then I just set the max aperture and shift my shutter speed as needed.
Outdoors I set my ISO to 200 and only shift up to 400/800/1600 as it gets darker. usually then I'll use wide open and adjust my shutter speed as needed (I stop down depending on lens, and intent). Anytime I find myself going below 125 of a second in daylight (night I go down to 60th) then I just bump up the ISO one stop. And to keep it simple, and to figure out all this stuff easier, I only work in full stops with ISO and half stops with everything else (actually try to do full stops whenever I can to get a sense of how bright/dark things really are).
Hope this helps.... There is one instance where I'll use auto ISO. IF I'm running around a bright city where I want to shoot with say 5.6 from the hip with a wide angle lens, and I know I'm going in and around buildings (so into bright light, then into shade). And honestly, it's only really when I'm shooting from the hip and don't want to bring the camera up to my eye. Even then, a lot of the time it's manual for everything. ...Show more →
Thanks for chiming in Adam. Interesting learning how different people shoot. I guess I'm somewhere between Sebboh & airfrogusmc (still not quite used to writing that one down ).
This is how I see it: If you're pointing your camera and shooting at a black wall or a white wall in any 'mode', you're not really in control. Even in M, if you're just pointing and shooting. But what you're doing is applying some understanding of your light meter and changing your settings - this you can do also in AutoISO. You can dial in some EC or just get a zone reading off something else (or a combination of both, both are quick and easy).
Shooting in M with autoISO does give a great amount of control. Shutter and aperture choice can say a lot about how you want an image to look - I know you know this! I am just stating it, as it was sort of missed before. For example, I might want to hit f11 and 1/30th for an image, and ISO could be irrelevent compared to those two settings. So for me to quickly go to the shutter and aperture values with no ISO fiddle (which isn't too intuitive IYAM) can be liberating and work very fluidly.
Now, keep in mind I've only used the M once or twice. I speak mostly from a Sony implementation. With their cameras, you can also set an AEL button to spot metering (lock), which adds another level of flexibility and control. So you can use an average metering for normal use, and then isolate and lock a value at the press of a button. Of course, with the M such implementation isn't there for RF use, but you have AEL through the half-press, and the EC wheel, so it's pretty good and simple to use.
My one remark was really just wanting a clearer indication of ISO during this shooting method. But no big deal
airfrogusmc wrote:
It's just second nature. A developed instinct I guess because I am not thinking I am just responding but I am not letting the camera make any decisions for me. We all find what works for us and thats all that matters.
How much do you sell this instinct for? I agree though, there is no right, wrong, better or worse. Just what works for you. For me, I've found the simpler the tool the more fun I have, and possibly the more instinctive I am. But there is a lot to be said for simply really knowing whatever you use, and using it for a long time, so that everything becomes second nature.
ricardovaste wrote:
Thanks for chiming in Adam. Interesting learning how different people shoot. I guess I'm somewhere between Sebboh & airfrogusmc (still not quite used to writing that one down ).
This is how I see it: If you're pointing your camera and shooting at a black wall or a white wall in any 'mode', you're not really in control. Even in M, if you're just pointing and shooting. But what you're doing is applying some understanding of your light meter and changing your settings - this you can do also in AutoISO. You can dial in some EC or just get a zone reading off something else (or a combination of both, both are quick and easy).
Shooting in M with autoISO does give a great amount of control. Shutter and aperture choice can say a lot about how you want an image to look - I know you know this! I am just stating it, as it was sort of missed before. For example, I might want to hit f11 and 1/30th for an image, and ISO could be irrelevent compared to those two settings. So for me to quickly go to the shutter and aperture values with no ISO fiddle (which isn't too intuitive IYAM) can be liberating and work very fluidly.
Now, keep in mind I've only used the M once or twice. I speak mostly from a Sony implementation. With their cameras, you can also set an AEL button to spot metering (lock), which adds another level of flexibility and control. So you can use an average metering for normal use, and then isolate and lock a value at the press of a button. Of course, with the M such implementation isn't there for RF use, but you have AEL through the half-press, and the EC wheel, so it's pretty good and simple to use.
My one remark was really just wanting a clearer indication of ISO during this shooting method. But no big deal ...Show more →
Richard, there are many ways to reach the same goal, but I find the auto iso method to be actually the longer road. The much shorter road is to select an aperture and a shutter speed and get on with the job. This is really the simplest and most controlled method, and it is the reason why many people still shoot with a Leica M. I only shoot in auto iso when I'm not shooting a particular subject. I carry my camera with me whenever I go out, and I'm not in shooting mode most of the time, so I want the camera to be ready to shoot immediately when I decide there is something worthwhile shooting, and I don't want it to be set at the wrong iso, because usually I have less than a few seconds to shoot what I saw.
Take a look at my work. It's all about the moment in my work. In fact my next exhibit in May June 2015 is going to be titled Spontaneous Relationships. My work happens in fractions of seconds and I found that auto ISO doesn't give me the consistent exposure especially in difficult lighting that I need. But thats me and it's taken years and years for me to get to this point.
Also I think Bresson is the one to coin the phrase and many of hte greats didn't even use meters. They learned to fully see the light and expose for it. Eisensteadt never used a meter. I usually get a meter reading for the light I am shooting in and adjust accordingly with the light changes based on experience...
No right or wrong only what works for each individual. What works for Edward clearly works (it show in his wonderful photographs) so I would never suggest he should change what he is doing. Great to have tools we can adapt to fully exploit our vision how ever and what ever that may be.
edwardkaraa wrote:
Richard, there are many ways to reach the same goal, but I find the auto iso method to be actually the longer road. The much shorter road is to select an aperture and a shutter speed and get on with the job. This is really the simplest and most controlled method, and it is the reason why many people still shoot with a Leica M. I only shoot in auto iso when I'm not shooting a particular subject. I carry my camera with me whenever I go out, and I'm not in shooting mode most of the time, so I want the camera to be ready to shoot immediately when I decide there is something worthwhile shooting, and I don't want it to be set at the wrong iso, because usually I have less than a few seconds to shoot what I saw. ...Show more →
huh, interesting. not having iso set wrong for a split second grab is exactly why i use auto iso. generally i carry the camera set to the appropriate shutter speed and aperture for the type of subject i expect to shoot and can just pull the camera up to shoot without having to worry about anything other than focus (often i'll have that preset too) and framing. if i see something that i wasn't expecting i usually only have to change one setting (usually aperture), but i find it much easier to change EC quickly than iso if need to change exposure without modifying aperture and shutter speed.
Allen, thanks for the kind words and indeed there are many ways that lead to the destination
Derek, basically we have a similar approach, except that with the ability to fix the minimum shutter speed of the M, there is no need to shoot in full manual auto iso, so I can shoot in A shutter auto iso with exactly the same result. I like to shoot with a fixed iso full manual when I can afford to, but when shooting street in variable light I just let the camera make the decisions based on my instructions. She's very obedient
edwardkaraa wrote:
Thank you Adam for the advice. The problem is there are more than 2 stops difference in lighting. At iso 200, the exposure can be 1/750s at f/8 in the sun, and in the shade 1/250s at f/5.6 and under the sky train I normally need iso 1600 in order to shoot 1/125s at f/2. There are also tents everywhere that will affect the light level unpredictably. I would normally go through the mentioned light levels several times in one minute so it isn't really practical for me to keep on changing the settings as I'm walking. If I lived in Singapore or somewhere in the west, I understand that your method would be very easy to apply. ...Show more →
I don't recall it varying that much. Last time I was there I think my shutter dial did the trick 90% of the time, without me having to dial in any unwanted DOF. I guess I don't move around as much
adamdewilde wrote:
I don't recall it varying that much. Last time I was there I think my shutter dial did the trick 90% of the time, without me having to dial in any unwanted DOF. I guess I don't move around as much
ricardovaste wrote:
Thanks for chiming in Adam. Interesting learning how different people shoot. I guess I'm somewhere between Sebboh & airfrogusmc (still not quite used to writing that one down ).
This is how I see it: If you're pointing your camera and shooting at a black wall or a white wall in any 'mode', you're not really in control. Even in M, if you're just pointing and shooting. But what you're doing is applying some understanding of your light meter and changing your settings - this you can do also in AutoISO. You can dial in some EC or just get a zone reading off something else (or a combination of both, both are quick and easy).
Shooting in M with autoISO does give a great amount of control. Shutter and aperture choice can say a lot about how you want an image to look - I know you know this! I am just stating it, as it was sort of missed before. For example, I might want to hit f11 and 1/30th for an image, and ISO could be irrelevent compared to those two settings. So for me to quickly go to the shutter and aperture values with no ISO fiddle (which isn't too intuitive IYAM) can be liberating and work very fluidly.
Now, keep in mind I've only used the M once or twice. I speak mostly from a Sony implementation. With their cameras, you can also set an AEL button to spot metering (lock), which adds another level of flexibility and control. So you can use an average metering for normal use, and then isolate and lock a value at the press of a button. Of course, with the M such implementation isn't there for RF use, but you have AEL through the half-press, and the EC wheel, so it's pretty good and simple to use.
My one remark was really just wanting a clearer indication of ISO during this shooting method. But no big deal ...Show more →
Hahaha, no worries... Spot metering doesn't work on an M unless in LV mode. So the issue becomes having to dial in EC. Which is why I'd rather just move my shutter or aperture.. Joys of not having a menu system, but a physical dial.
That and I never get the right exposure from the camera, unless I'm in a situation where I just don't give damn. And then sometimes the Leica actually surprises me.
edwardkaraa wrote:
Richard, there are many ways to reach the same goal, but I find the auto iso method to be actually the longer road. The much shorter road is to select an aperture and a shutter speed and get on with the job. This is really the simplest and most controlled method, and it is the reason why many people still shoot with a Leica M. I only shoot in auto iso when I'm not shooting a particular subject. I carry my camera with me whenever I go out, and I'm not in shooting mode most of the time, so I want the camera to be ready to shoot immediately when I decide there is something worthwhile shooting, and I don't want it to be set at the wrong iso, because usually I have less than a few seconds to shoot what I saw. ...Show more →
Yeah actually, setting the ISO manually then using A on the shutter will allow you to quickly switch to full manual if you know something's amiss.. Much easier then taking the camera away from your eye to change the ISO.
airfrogusmc wrote:
Take a look at my work. It's all about the moment in my work. In fact my next exhibit in May June 2015 is going to be titled Spontaneous Relationships. My work happens in fractions of seconds and I found that auto ISO doesn't give me the consistent exposure especially in difficult lighting that I need. But thats me and it's taken years and years for me to get to this point.
Also I think Bresson is the one to coin the phrase and many of hte greats didn't even use meters. They learned to fully see the light and expose for it. Eisensteadt never used a meter. I usually get a meter reading for the light I am shooting in and adjust accordingly with the light changes based on experience...
No right or wrong only what works for each individual. What works for Edward clearly works (it show in his wonderful photographs) so I would never suggest he should change what he is doing. Great to have tools we can adapt to fully exploit our vision how ever and what ever that may be. ...Show more →
You also use a Monochrom, so technically you could under expose by a lot and you're alright. I've not verified this, but it's what I've read, agree?
edwardkaraa wrote:
Allen, thanks for the kind words and indeed there are many ways that lead to the destination
Derek, basically we have a similar approach, except that with the ability to fix the minimum shutter speed of the M, there is no need to shoot in full manual auto iso, so I can shoot in A shutter auto iso with exactly the same result. I like to shoot with a fixed iso full manual when I can afford to, but when shooting street in variable light I just let the camera make the decisions based on my instructions. She's very obedient ...Show more →
yeah, pretty much the same. i do wish my present cameras had that ability for when i know exactly what i'm shooting. even with cameras that allow a min shutter speed setting i prefer manual mode in cases where i may need to catch really fast motion.
adamdewilde wrote:
Hahaha, no worries... Spot metering doesn't work on an M unless in LV mode. So the issue becomes having to dial in EC. Which is why I'd rather just move my shutter or aperture.. Joys of not having a menu system, but a physical dial.
That and I never get the right exposure from the camera, unless I'm in a situation where I just don't give damn. And then sometimes the Leica actually surprises me.
I'm happy to tweak my methods and see how things go . I must say my exposures with initial testing were pretty horrid! With my other cameras I mostly use spot metering, so it'll take sometime getting used to CWA again. One thing I'm going to do is just dial in -0.3/-0.7 to begin with, as recovery wasn't quite as good as I'd expected (or my exposures were worse than expected )
ricardovaste wrote:
I'm happy to tweak my methods and see how things go . I must say my exposures with initial testing were pretty horrid! With my other cameras I mostly use spot metering, so it'll take sometime getting used to CWA again. One thing I'm going to do is just dial in -0.3/-0.7 to begin with, as recovery wasn't quite as good as I'd expected (or my exposures were worse than expected )
I'd probably also take a look at this: http://blog.perkins.org.uk
In case you do need to recover files that are to dark.
adamdewilde wrote:
I'd probably also take a look at this: http://blog.perkins.org.uk
In case you do need to recover files that are to dark.
Will do when I get a moment. So I guess it seems it's not particularly wise to underexpose either then. I should probably just try and get a good exposure above everything else
p.s. I am the whitest person ever, I burn terrible. I also try to run from the sun
Mescalamba wrote:
Given price of Leica, in some countries, you hold value of average new car in your hand. Plus seeing Monochrom outside shop is like black unicorn. I would probably look in amazement too.. Never saw anyone with Leica anyway here.
Wait a minute - you didn't see me and my Leica there a few months ago?!?
At least I have some shots from a couple of weeks ago.
I would probably look in amazement too.. Never saw anyone with Leica anyway here.
). 