thanks Ron! OMG, lovely pics - just the thing for pushing me to cclick the 'buy' button on the 21 ZM!
My research covered:
(a) Reidreviews - the 21 ZM looked better than the Leica (better contrast, sharper in the edges) and the Leica mainly trumped it in the centre sharpness department and coding niceties. It's just more conveninent to have a coded lens but you do pay a premmium for it!
(b) Lloyd - have a subscription. Sounds like he likes the zm a lot, no comparison to leica done though.
Your feedback is priceless though ! Thanks a million and really great pics - i never thought I would be using a 21 for street but after buying a 20mm AIS for my nikon andloving it, i have opened up to the idea of wide street photography.
Kidtexas, those are great pics! The colour fringing issues arre what is making me not pick the 21mm Zeiss C lens. Otherwise, the small size and low distortion is superb!
singletrack wrote:
thanks Ron! OMG, lovely pics - just the thing for pushing me to cclick the 'buy' button on the 21 ZM!
My research covered:
(a) Reidreviews - the 21 ZM looked better than the Leica (better contrast, sharper in the edges) and the Leica mainly trumped it in the centre sharpness department and coding niceties. It's just more conveninent to have a coded lens but you do pay a premmium for it!
(b) Lloyd - have a subscription. Sounds like he likes the zm a lot, no comparison to leica done though.
Your feedback is priceless though ! Thanks a million and really great pics - i never thought I would be using a 21 for street but after buying a 20mm AIS for my nikon andloving it, i have opened up to the idea of wide street photography.
Thanks KL. Of course, at 1000px and sharpened for the web, everything will look better but I'm not knocking the lens because it truly does resolve fine details very well when needed, you just have to know it's limitations, as with any other lens.
I like the 21 for street because I can be so close to people they think I couldn't possibly be photographing them, haha... and it's wide enough that I can 'point' and shoot and be pretty sure I got what I wanted in the shot without needing to look through the viewfinder.
Luka's great use of the ZM18 has me interested in that lens as well. I originally went with the 21 in part for the 2.8 but also because since 2002 I've been using the Canon 16-35 as my normal lens on 1.3x crop 1D series bodies, which equates to about 21mm equivalent on the wide end, and is therefore what I'm used to seeing.
Thanks Charles! Nice images - both lenses have a very pleasing rendering and I like what you're getting with skin tones. C1 I assume? Just wondering - does the woman in the first two images have a scar or something on her chin? In the first image it looks like there's a blob of dust on the sensor, but you can also see it in the second image...
Where I think the M9 is influencing my work is that I'm more likely to have it out and ready around my neck and use it while 'in transit' between formal photo 'destinations' such as while waiting for the subway to take me to an event, etc. These transition situations become photo opportunities in themselves and are sometimes more interesting than the formal destinations. In fact, anything and everything is a potential photo opp, just that at least for me, I had subconsciously segmented aspects of my daily life into non-photo and photo appropriate, if that makes sense. And I think for the average person, that is very much how photography is approached. It's expected one will take pictures while on a vacation, but not during the morning commute for the 3953rd time. It's good to mix things up and if the M9 can be that catalyst, then even better.
Whether it's really affecting my style or approach much, I'm less certain. I'd like to think I already worked this way. That might be true, but it would also be true to say that while I might have recognized such photo opps in the past, I was less likely to actually photograph them because the camera was not immediately available.
A couple more air travel images. On approach on a Continental Express ERJ-145 to Newark airport with the NYC skyline in the distance. In the second image, the factory in the foreground is a Budweiser brewery. Both with the ZM 35 f/2.8. My technique for out the window shots is to set the lens to infinity and shoot nearly wide open in order to blur out as much of the crap on the windows as possible, which is why the wing is somewhat soft. It was especially necessary for the train shots I posted earlier because the window was filthy.
Wow, the shots are stunning! thx for sharing. Thx also for the poitners and feedback on the 21. Looks like the zm for me. BTW, u got silver or black version? Just wondering. Wonder also if black may be more discreet though I prefer silver.
Do you have any colour fringing issues with the 21 zm? Tx!
KL
I'm also thinking between a 21 or 24mm lens down the road, but that will have to wait. I can't decide if I want a 50Lux or a MP for my next gear binge . For the time, the M9 has become a backup camera to my M6 TTL
singletrack wrote:
Wow, the shots are stunning! thx for sharing. Thx also for the poitners and feedback on the 21. Looks like the zm for me. BTW, u got silver or black version? Just wondering. Wonder also if black may be more discreet though I prefer silver.
Do you have any colour fringing issues with the 21 zm? Tx!
KL
I have the black version, though in keeping with the current Zeiss design, it has a chrome filter mount ring. I would prefer it was all black, but that's just me. I think Luka has a silver ZM or two, as seen in his Egypt gear photo a couple pages back.
I have not noticed CA in most images, which was a surprise after being used to seeing it all the time in my Canon 16-35 images. In two of the three subway images posted above there is some purple fringing around the fluorescent lights at the edges of the frame, so it appears there are situations where some sort of fringing can be present, and those were shot wide open. For most 'normal' work it has not been an issue, even with tree branches against the sky.
Luka - great aerial set and like the last one a lot. It's nice to have something to watch during a flight other than the inflight entertainment. Just to show how anal I can be about certain things, I book long distance flights in part based on window seat availability and select seats that are not on the sunny side (north facing for trans atlantic) when possible to allow for better photo opps and simply because I don't like the sun shining in my eyes while watching the scenery below. Or like the photos above, if I'm familiar with a particular route, will select a seat for a specific view in mind. I knew that flight to Newark usually approaches from the north, therefore the NYC skyline would be visible from the left.
Shaun - very nice feel to those images and I'm particularly fond of the fourth one.
Leaving Munich about a month ago, again with the ZM 35 f/2.8.
Ron, very nice aerial shots. I reallly like PP too. The first two shots, don't have any dirt. The lady did have a scar on her chin, although subtle as it may be. All these shots I used ACR for PP, but I did try C1 Pro too. I am finding the colours from C1 are easier to get the right skin tones than with ACR with minimal effort. A number of shots were high ISO, so I used ACR for the noise reduction component
Luka, excellent aerial shots! My favourite is #4.
Shaun, very nice shots. I really like the rendering from this lens, particularly shots #2 and 3.
Joe, the 28 Cron is a great lens. Excellent for smaller sized functions.
Nice shot Ron. Did you need to increase contrast in the shot a lot? I'm asking because the sky looks a bit too blue. One way of avoiding saturation increase with an contrast increase is to do it only on the L channel in LAB mode.
X1 came back, seems to be improved. Excuse the compression, I exported for LUF standards, which are small... still debating whether to renew flickr or go somewhere else.
Luka, I'd have to check the image again in LR but yes, I'm pretty sure the contrast was jacked up, as with almost any aerial shot, though not nearly as much as the two previous monochrome images where it was much hazier. That's one reason why those are in B&W.
With the M9 in LR and depending on the scene I'm finding I tend to pull back on the blue saturation slider quite frequently. I guess I didn't for the image above. Same with yellow in certain situations.
If I was working in PS and a levels or curve adjustment negatively affected saturation I'd do a luminosity fade to bring things back into check. Fade is a quite useful little trick to keep in mind. For example if doing major hue shifts, sometimes it affects tonal density as well, or colors start to get blotchy looking. Just apply a Fade>Hue and tonality falls back into place while preserving the new hue. Same with color balance shifts that change tonality. Fade>Color. But yes LAB apparently is very flexible. I haven't played around much with it and therefore don't understand it as well as working in RGB. I've used it for quick and dirty NR by applying gaussian blur to the A and B channels, but that's about as far as I've gotten with it. I think my Amazon wishlist has a book in it about working entirely in LAB, just haven't checked it out yet.
Again, nice images. The guy sleeping in the sand is humourous. Was he waiting for more tourists to arrive?
Charles, again that lens has an interesting range of looks depending on the aperture.
Lovely portraits Charles! I'm really starting to warm to the Leica rendering style.
Edward, nice shots - I really like #2 & #3!
Ron, that was our driver. He took a nap while we were watching the sunset
Here's something a bit more technical in nature - a comparison between the M9 and the 5DII noise levels. I saw a post over at LUF claiming that the M9 high ISO was about as good as 5DII - something that did not mirror my experience. So I conducted a small test:
Test scene:
M9 on the left, 5DII on the right:
Finally,
My limits for what I consider to be "usable ISO" for color photos is ISO800 for the M9, ISO 3200 for the 5DII, ISO 1600 for the X1 as well as the 7D.
Interesting comparison Luka. I for one, however, would also be interested in seeing how the images looked after running them through something like Neat Image/Noise Ninja. I'm wondering if the M9 images wouldn't still retain more detail afterwards....
Have you tried that method posted on LFU by Jaap? It seems to me that there is more detail in the M9 shots, and so there is potential there, if it can be pulled out.
Thanks guys! It's nice to be able to participate again. I'm hoping to finally take my weekend trip this coming... so hopefully I'll have some nice red rock or canyon shots or something.. still mapping a route.
Luka, that's a good comparison.. For color I agree @ 1600 for both the x1 and 7d, bw look fine from both at 3200 / 6400 w/ more aggressive nr on the 7d... though I do think the digital noise looks more like film grain with the x1 (completely subjective!)
Charles, great to see your shots as always
Luka, I really enjoyed your Egypt series... I'm not sure I'll make it there for at least 20 years, so at least I get a peek.
Carsten, yes, although I'm not really sure that I understand what is supposed to be special about it. It seems to me like a standard noise reduction and sharpening procedure. In my experience ACR/LR cleans performs better NR on 5DII noise while Topaz Denoise does a bit better with M9 noise.
I would say the M9 has slightly better detail up until ISO400-640. Beyond 640 the 5DII has an advantage due to the lower noise levels.
Luka and Edward ... Thank you
Luka, yes the Leica rendering does grow on you and does become addictive
Very good comparison tests! Each camera excels in certain areas.
Recent testing I have tried ACR in CS5 and found the NR has worked brilliantly with very high ISO shots even around 2500. There are some shots from the past I had written off, as being too underexposed and high ISO. With C1 Pro, the NR does work very differently, allowing the sharpness of the image to be maintained, but does not work as well as CS5 ACR NR IMO. I find if I export the files to CS5 from C1 Pro in 16 bit TIFF, with initial NR, and use Noiseware Professional, this gives even better results. Again, this will depend on the subject matter and whether is low or high frequency noise. I also have Topaz Denoise, but I have not had as much success with NR on the M9 files.
Palexy, I have tried Noise Ninja Pro, and I find it does not work well with the M9 DNG files. I may have to see if I can load some profiles that may work better. Noise Ninja with the 5DII files worked very well, and was my pick for NR.
Another technical thing: As you know the ZM18 produces a rather nasty red edge even when lens coding is applied. The best coding in my experience is as the 21 Elmarit (pre-ASPH) but the results still leave a lot to be desired.
The solution is to use CornerFix to fix the red edge. It works quite well. I made a profile at a small aperture that completely removes the color cast while not affecting the vignetting (I like to have separate control over that):
but I'm not knocking the lens because it truly does resolve fine details very well when needed, you just have to know it's limitations, as with any other lens.
. For the time, the M9 has become a backup camera to my M6 TTL 
