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Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread

  
 
rirakuma
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p.1107 #1 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


The m9 must've been really ground breaking during ts release ( this was long before I found interest in photography) but I can imagine a lot of enthusiast and pros lusting for it. And Ron I strongly agree with your thoughts on the current market, there are so many options to choose from leica no longer has that compact full frame exclusivity. I hope they don't discontinue the m line and although there are lots of things to improve on it seems like the ff system has matured a lot and perhaps they need to do something radical to continue the reputation they've had in the past. The leica r system was discontinued and although it was frustrating to current r users it was in their best interest to focus on a digital m.

I don't know what the next big thing is but personally I'm most interested in a true 6x6 back. It would be very interesting to see leica pursue this avenue with a new system. They can keep releasing new m models but if the improvements are minor I can't see them keeping up with the other competitors. That new factory they built seemed like a silly idea as well, it must be costing them a huge overhead and the extra lenses they're making isn't exactly going out like hot cakes.


rscheffler wrote:
Thanks for the comments Edward and Rocky, and the likes from everyone else!

I caught something about possible Leica troubles in an RFF thread earlier today. Seems it might be Blackstone related? If the CEO is replaced by someone favored by Blackstone, by the sounds of it, it could lead to problems for Leica in respect to maintaining core values, if those values conflict with profitability…

In hindsight, Leica had a lot of good fortune releasing the M9 when it did. A couple years later and the mirrorless market would be more established and Sony would be present with the a7 family
...Show more



Mar 04, 2015 at 12:56 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1107 #2 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Blackstone is only about bottom line. Next quarter thinking never long term. Not good for a company like Leica,

Leica has been about making cameras that keep the photographer engaged. If they try and compete with the big two that will be their death. They are the only company that had the foresight to make the MM. That in my opinion is Leica's finest digital effort to date. Leica is a real alternative to the auto everything, does it all products everyone else is making. Leica M has always been about keeping it simple. Not to many bells and whistles. How long did it take them to put a meter in an M body. Still no auto focus (thank God).

Sony's are not rangefinders. The mirrorless market is not the Leica M market. I hope Leica doesn't forget that.



Mar 04, 2015 at 07:52 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.1107 #3 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Here are some shots from a trip to Dubai:

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr



Mar 04, 2015 at 11:52 AM
rscheffler
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p.1107 #4 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Allen, I agree for the most part.

The challenge for Leica seems to be finding a sustainable path after the M9. Relative to Leica's past 50-60 years, was there ever a product that was so successful for them? It would seem Kaufmann was able to leverage that success into considerable expansion and attempt to radically grow the brand's image. It might have been a now or never situation, but obviously with a degree of risk that we're now beginning to see from the outside. In hindsight, maybe it was too much?

Has the bubble burst for Leica? My feeling is it has. If M sales are flat, it would indicate a relatively saturated market and an inevitable downward slide until there is reason for enough current Leica users to upgrade while also attracting new users.

Like you, I hope the new CEO will not compromise Leica's core values, nor that they try to compete directly with Canikony. If done right, Leica's values of simplicity and traditional design could be effective at attracting those looking for an alternative to Sony and the likes in the mirrorless market, willing to pay somewhat of a premium for a simplified, traditional design. Here I'm thinking about what Edward has advocated - an EVF only M body. I think it can be done without detracting from the core RF-centric M system.

Edward - looks good! I was wondering where you'd been. What are your thoughts about the lens so far?

More from Salt Lake City...






















M240 & 90AA except second with 50 Lux ASPH.



Mar 04, 2015 at 12:43 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1107 #5 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thank you Ron! Nice work above!

I think it is the most perfect lens I have used, and apart from the weight/size, I have no complaints. As usual, nailing focus at 1.4 isn't always easy, though I have a good success rate sofar.

Edited on Mar 04, 2015 at 12:52 PM · View previous versions



Mar 04, 2015 at 12:50 PM
Werner_Utsch
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p.1107 #6 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Very nice, Ron!


" Paradiso "





L1021348.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr



Mar 04, 2015 at 12:52 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1107 #7 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 50/1.5 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 50/1.5 by edward karaa, on Flickr



Mar 04, 2015 at 12:55 PM
zhangyue
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p.1107 #8 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Ron, Edward, Werner, rirakuma, Glowrider, recordproducti Nice images as always.

Don't want put oil on fire but I feel Leica choose wrong time to expand. They might misunderstand the success of M9. I hold this opinion at various thread about Leica. I hope I am wrong.

Edward, very nice images of 35ZM. I will soon join you or not(If I don't like it) just got the lens today from BH. so far, it focus flawless on my M9: close, mid and infinity. Great! the focus throw is short so focus will be fast. My only complain is weight, somehow it feel heavier than paper suggested. feel more heavier than 50lux in hand. VF block seems not bad at all.

A question: focusing resistance seems high even though very smooth. is it normal?

At least an image
50lux WO








Mar 04, 2015 at 01:06 PM
rscheffler
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p.1107 #9 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thanks guys!

Edward - I thought at first #2 was with the 35/1.4 and got even more excited, then read it's the 50 Sonnar. Makes sense. It would seem the Distagon will address the technical needs, but I think I'm still longing for a 35 with the 50 Sonnar's personality.

Michael - good luck with the Distagon. I think the feel you described is similar to what I remember from trying it months ago. It seems a step up in construction quality from earlier ZMs.

The other side of the building...






















M240 & 90AA except #3 with 50 Lux ASPH



Mar 04, 2015 at 01:29 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1107 #10 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Thank you Zhangyue, and congrats on your new distagon!!!!

Very nice shot of your son!

I wouldn't describe the focusing action as highly resistant. It is very smooth as you say, and very well damped. There might be some sample variations though.

Ron, yeah, I wish it wasn't so clinical at times

Here are two similar shots with the distagon. It looks much cleaner than the sonnar, though there are much less lights in the background:

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

Edited on Mar 04, 2015 at 01:48 PM · View previous versions



Mar 04, 2015 at 01:33 PM
 


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edwardkaraa
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p.1107 #11 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


More shots from last week:

M240 ZM 50/1.5 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr

M240 ZM 35/1.4 by edward karaa, on Flickr



Mar 04, 2015 at 01:38 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.1107 #12 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


I'm loving these ZM35 shots. It is going to be awefully difficult to resist this lens! I'm sure at some point down the road I will cave.....


Mar 04, 2015 at 03:21 PM
rscheffler
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p.1107 #13 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Well, yet to be seen is the new CV35/1.7... who knows? I doubt it will have the ZM's clarity, but might make up with some character?






















M240 & 90AA

I was quite fascinated by this building. In many ways it reminds me of German 1930s Third Reich architecture, from what I remember of a visit to the parade grounds in Nürnberg, but more so the design of the Haus der Kunst in Munich, particularly the backside of that building.



Mar 04, 2015 at 03:36 PM
adamdewilde
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p.1107 #14 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


My take on Leica has remained the same for the last three years now.. But it's just getting more dire now that Sony's really starting to round out the FF lineup on the A7 series cameras. Which means consumers will be able to shoot in a format that is familiar to them (FF - I say familiar, but I mean hyped by marketing) and with lenses that cover a wide range of needs. But in a small package.

Luxury brands only really work if the people that buy them actually see a status value in using them (be it a purse, camera, watch, etc). And usually the prices have to be very high, and the production costs very low. For a company to reach that point. Their are tricks some companies use.. If you take Hermes, they've stopped giving out Bikins since 2010, and now in order to get one, you have to spend an undisclosed amount at their store on a variety of things that one doesn't usually associate with the brand (plates, mugs, blankets, chairs etc).. Before they'll offer you a status symbol bag. A brand like LV which is still doing extremely well. They spend a fortune on advertising, but bags run between $2k-$10k and the cost of them building a bag is in the $50 range and they pump them out QUICKLY. Another thing about being a luxury brand.. You REALLY need to bend over backwards for your customer, and make them feel as if you're treating them better then anyone else treats them. Leica doesn't really have this down, it's quite the opposite in fact.

For a tech company, R&D costs are expensive, REALLY expensive. That's a lot of coin that eats into the production costs, thus a lot less money that can be spent on relevant status building advertising. So if Leica wants to be a luxury brand, they need to stop innovating and start doing what Hasselblad does with Sony camera bodies.


In my opinion, Leica has two options (feel free to call me crazy):

1) Go off their rocker, create uber expensive crappy products and have no R&D costs thus no innovation. It might work if they have a strong advertising team. And have strong brand tie-ins.

2) Design more affordable camera lines, but still maintain quality and a slight price premium on lenses.

Two ways I've thought this would work:

1) A Mirrorless full frame RF (call it digital-RF). Very similar design, slightly lighter and a lot cheaper. Cheap enough to draw people into the brand with say a summicron lens, then later as people get hooked, they spend more on M lenses. But you have to make the camera look like the Leica M (this is important).

2) Keep innovating with RF bodies (but keep it a core values body, where the innovation is image quality centric). If we can get 4k video as a side thought, great.. But actual R&D dollars should be spent on core values. The digital-RF can share the RF body sensor. This will keep the die-hard fans happy. And this body shouldn't be upgraded so dramatically. All we really need is a better sensor every few years. We don't need huge jumps in bells and whistles.

3) Revamp all of the Leica M lenses for AF. Have a mirrorless AF-M body. Start with a few key lenses, summicrons maybe (but don't create new lenses). Don't release until there are at least 5 converted M lenses on launch date. And price is reasonable (for Leica).. Not like the S-system.

The reason I think this would work. The people who want top quality and the RF experience will stick with their M lenses and just keep getting the best RF bodies. Those people will also probably start to age and have worse eyesight, and might get the digital-RF until they really just have to buy themselves the AF-M body and a set of AF-M lenses. I hear tons of stories from M users who have switched to Sony due to failing health.
People drawn to Leica, but in need of AF, will go for the AF-M bodies, and the ones who get "good deals" on RF-M lenses, will be drawn into the RF and Digital-RF world.
With the AF-M bodies and lenses.. Their will be no debate of image quality, as you know and love the lenses already from RF shooting.


And yes they kind of did this with the T system, but let's face it.. Through marketing hype ect. APS-C gets a pretty bad rep, and it seems as if Leica is neglecting APS-C lenses. A M-AF set of lenses (there are already so many M lenses that can be adapted and Leica can easily turn them to AF). They recased most of their designs with their Cine Line.


Anyway, crazy rant, but makes sense in my mind.



Mar 04, 2015 at 04:53 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1107 #15 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


I think if they worked on getting an amazing, really reliable sensor (really sate of the art) and put that in an all manual body about the size of an M3 and priced ot about where the M-E is now, they would sell two to me.

And PLEASE Leica no auto focus and stay a real alternative to the others. And I never think of cameras as symbols of anything and it's not a luxury but a well crated tool that matched my vision better than the other cameras mass produced for the masses. PLEASE Leica keep giving me a real alternative to that other world of the gadget go round.

Edited on Mar 05, 2015 at 02:29 PM · View previous versions



Mar 04, 2015 at 07:26 PM
zhangyue
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p.1107 #16 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Adam, AF won't work, no chance they can compete Japanese.
Build some lens for FE like Zeiss might help.

Allen, that is right, it is a good one for me as well. Though I don't know how many they can sell to meet their long term growth plan even all alt members here got one.

The only way works for Leica is don't expand, keep themselves niche. Keep lens shortage



Mar 04, 2015 at 07:43 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1107 #17 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


I think there are a lot of photographers that feel as I do. Many are really tired of the gadget-go-round.


Mar 04, 2015 at 08:29 PM
adamdewilde
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p.1107 #18 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


zhangyue - The T series isn't horrible AF wise.. They could work on the AF for the M-AF lenses.
BTW, I got a 120mm Summarit-S. I'm on the fence as to if I like it or not. Thinking a 35-S is in the near future.


airfrogusmc - I agree, bare bones IQ machine. Priced reasonably. But I think they need a bargain FF camera with built in EVF.



Canon should have bought them up. Since canon lenses are really lacking, they could have used the patents.




Mar 05, 2015 at 03:13 AM
SKumar25
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p.1107 #19 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread


Great 3-d in those Edward...


Mar 05, 2015 at 05:16 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.1107 #20 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q/CL/SL Picture Thread




SKumar25 wrote:
Great 3-d in those Edward...

Thank you SKumar. Indeed the distagon seems to produce nice volumes and 3D.



Mar 05, 2015 at 06:38 AM
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