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Archive 2010 · Leica R Series Lenses

  
 
adamdewilde
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p.16 #1 · Leica R Series Lenses


Anyone here used the 90 AA, and the 100 MP ZE/ZF?
Thoughts on the two lenses as a comparison?

Sorry if this is off-topic, but figured someone here must have used the 100 MP ZE, and wants to chime in.
Would post it in the zeiss forum, but not sure how many use Leica.

BTW, thanks for the reply Scott!

Best,
Adam



Jul 15, 2010 at 03:41 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.16 #2 · Leica R Series Lenses


Both 90 AA and 100 MP are very sharp lenses even wide open.
Besides the usual different drawing styles of Leica vs. Zeiss and color rendering differences, the two have different strengths/weaknesses.
The 90 AA is APO with no CA problems whereas the 100MP has the one weakness of CA in the bokeh.
The 90 AA's one weakness is its busy bokeh for which I would give the bokeh advantage to the 100MP.
Of course bokeh is highly controversial and subjective. I would give the 3-d advantage to the 100MP over the 90 AA but that is controversial too.
Both these lenses are so good that you would pick one over the other mostly on subjective preferences which you can make by looking at all the images posted in this forum with both lenses.



Jul 15, 2010 at 04:42 PM
sirimiri
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p.16 #3 · Leica R Series Lenses


There was a 90 APO Aspherical R, described as quite clean, with box on Craigslist over here about 6 weeks ago. This person was basically liquidating their R system at a very good price. 180 Summicron, 90 AA, 50 Summicron, 85 Summilux, and two more I forget which - all ROM.

I couldn't get to it fast enough, the guy/gal sold the 90 for $1,000. :-|

Sometimes, you need to be quick, as in lightning quick. No, I do not think the stuff was "hot", the person was simply done shooting that system.



Jul 15, 2010 at 04:48 PM
j.liam
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p.16 #4 · Leica R Series Lenses


Comparing the 90 AA to the 100 MP is apples & oranges. The Leica is much smaller and lighter (closer to a 50 Summicron in size), has a far shorter focus throw but no close focus/macro capabilities. As 'Wayne Seltzer' points out, the CA in the bokeh can be really distracting/annoying, so much so that numerous discerning shooters have sold it for this reason alone (if the photo blogs are to be believed). The Zeiss 100MP is a lovely bit of glass (in my limited use I found it solidly built with a wonderfully smooth helicoid) and superior for general use compared to the Leica 2,8/100 or the CV 125/2.5 (both lenses I own and better comparisons) on account of its shorter focus throw, larger max aperture so the image just pops into focus (striking effect) but it's still a heavier creature than the nimble 90 AA. More apt comparisons for the 90 are the Canon 85/1.2, Nikon 85/1.4 D, Leica 1,4/80 & ZF 1,4/85.

Edited on Jul 15, 2010 at 05:20 PM · View previous versions



Jul 15, 2010 at 05:00 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.16 #5 · Leica R Series Lenses


Adam , (pls. correct me if I am wrong) was probably wondering about comparing the two lenses for portrait type shooting and people use both the 90 AA and the 100MP along with the 80 'Lux and the Z* 85/1.4 for shooting portraits. I would compare the 90 AA to the 100MP since the two lenses are slightly slower (f2) than their other counterparts (80 "Lux and Z* 85/1.4) but much sharper wide open at the expense of having less smooth bokeh.


Jul 15, 2010 at 05:18 PM
vallejo
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p.16 #6 · Leica R Series Lenses


Adam, tks for the info on The lens problem, it didn't show again. About the Leica vs Zeiss thing, the Leica has one major disadvantage: step-down metering. I use it on the Cron 90 (non Apo) and sometimes it can be quite a pain in the *...mainly in low light, due to the very narrow DOF. My adapter has focus confirmation, but it is so so. Being able to focus in f2 and shoot right away is SO much better...


Jul 15, 2010 at 07:57 PM
j.liam
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p.16 #7 · Leica R Series Lenses


I fitted my D700 with a split-circle focusing screen and thisbhas greatly aided the focusing on the Leica 100 and 180 Telyt I've converted. Solves the low-light focusing issue.


Jul 15, 2010 at 08:01 PM
vallejo
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p.16 #8 · Leica R Series Lenses


Does it have any impact with metering? How is it for focusing on distant subjects?


Jul 15, 2010 at 08:05 PM
adamdewilde
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p.16 #9 · Leica R Series Lenses


wayne seltzer wrote:
Adam , (pls. correct me if I am wrong) was probably wondering about comparing the two lenses for portrait type shooting and people use both the 90 AA and the 100MP along with the 80 'Lux and the Z* 85/1.4 for shooting portraits. I would compare the 90 AA to the 100MP since the two lenses are slightly slower (f2) than their other counterparts (80 "Lux and Z* 85/1.4) but much sharper wide open at the expense of having less smooth bokeh.


Wayne you are right, I wanted to know how the 100 MP and 90 AA stack up for portraits.

I also wouldn't mind a comparison between the 80 lux and 85 ZE for portrait shooting. But am currently not looking for an 80 lux so no real urgency in comparisons.

Two things to note, if I did get the 90 AA I would probably only shoot the thing wide open, as it's a pain to constantly switch the aperture ring. So for portraits I'd be shooting wide open. Second, I do own the 100MP ZE, and 85ZE so if I didn't see any real advantage to having the 90 AA I want to know if I'll be able to sell it relatively easy at a price of $2500 so losses are minimal (I'll be doing an EOS Leitax conversion).


So is it safe to say that both lenses are sharp wide open, the 100 MP ZE suffers from CA, the Leica does not, but has less desirable bokeh (average belief although bokeh is subjective). They render colors differently, and have different drawing styles, but the ZE wins with overall 3D.

If that's the case, there's probably no need for the hassle and money loss to test the 90 AA, as my ZE will tip the scales with macro abilities and auto aperture.
Does anyone wanna convince me otherwise?

BTW, thanks guys for all the comments, sorry to somewhat hijack the thread. If I do get the 90 AA I promise to post photos to make up for it.

Best,
Adam

EDIT: Rereading Waynes post, I guess the only real way to quench my curiosity is to buy the lens. I really don't want to lose money for curiosity sake, I'm gonna see if flickr has some 90 AA shots



Jul 15, 2010 at 11:45 PM
vallejo
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p.16 #10 · Leica R Series Lenses


Adam, as you have both the 100 and the 85 ZE, how do you compare them? After buying the 21 and 35, I'm having a hard time deciding between these two...
André



Jul 16, 2010 at 11:27 AM
adamdewilde
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p.16 #11 · Leica R Series Lenses


vallejo wrote:
Adam, as you have both the 100 and the 85 ZE, how do you compare them? After buying the 21 and 35, I'm having a hard time deciding between these two...
André


The 100 MP ZE is the sharpest lens I've used wide open. It has amazing 3D pop, and the bokeh is to my taste. Though to be honest CA can sometimes be a problem, it's the only compromise of the 100 MP ZE. And 99% of the time it can be corrected if needed, I think I mentioned to someone it ruined 1 of my photos out of a ton of shots I've taken. Oh and it doesn't shop up that often BTW. Honestly, the lens may wow you on first glimpse, then you may have remorse for a period of time while you're learning the ins and outs of the lens, but once you really learn how to use it, you'll just love it more and more. You have to own it for a while to know what I mean...

The 85 ZE is really a beautiful lens for taking zen like calming shots around the city, it's never really super sharp unless you've stopped it down to almost f/4, but at f/2 it's very usable for portraits where you want the eyes to be sharp enough. It renders backgrounds beautifully at f2 btw, and of course at 1.4 the backgrounds are pretty. Stopped down and at long distances it really does well for building details etc. Stopped down close up, I hear it has a focus shift problem, and honestly I don't notice it, because of my style of shooting. The 85 is also really easy to get the hang of, like a week max and you'll be shooting like a champ with it, and you'll have keepers that put a smile on your face. I think the first day I got it, I gripped about the performance at 1.4 and f/2 but the second day I went out and shot a portrait of my fiance at f/2 and when I got home and loaded it, I was blown away by the colors, bokeh and it's ability to render areas from in focus to out of focus. I also must have been spot on with the focusing, because the eyes were actually sharper then I'd imagine they'e be at f/2.. Thats when I knew I made the right choice by buying both lenses. I now have 6 of 8 ZEs *choke* no 28ZE (had the canon don't really like the FL) and no 18ZE (hate wide angle as it is, and the 21's a beauty).

If you had to chose one, I'd suggest the 100 MP ZE, it's a bit harder to "learn" but it gives you the macro option, it's fantastic for portraits once you learn the ins and outs, and it's razor sharp wide open. I've used the 100 MP ZE at f/11 in studio and the first time I did so, I was shocked at how my photos turned out. It felt like I was looking at a very well shot digital medium format photo. It was unlike anything I've seen from my Canon cameras/lenses. I've also used it multiple times at f/2 and when focus was nailed it was unbelievably sharp, I suspect sometimes a bit to sharp for portraits. Though again that's my thing so I'm not gonna complain. Oh and about the macro, it's really fun with the 100 MP ZE, I hated macro with my canon and sigma macros... I actually enjoy it with the ZE, the focusing is amazing and easy to use once you get the hang of it.

Oh and one more thing, I really want a M9 as it's exactly what my M8 wasn't.. A full frame camera w/good iso 1250 (as high as I usually go) and decent 1600 iso. But André, I wouldn't part with any of my ZE lenses to pay for the M9. Even though I'm really in love with the idea of an M9, I can't even think of a single ZE I'd part with...

André if you wanna talk more about Zeiss, come over the the ZE forum or write me a PM...

BTW, sorry guys for going WAY off topic, someone please post a nice Leica photo so we can get back on track. Preferably a 90 AA portrait, to convince me to buy and try one!




Jul 16, 2010 at 03:40 PM
vallejo
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p.16 #12 · Leica R Series Lenses


Tks for the insights. I'm very much about sharp images, as sharp as possible, so the 100 seems the way to go. And if a portrait looks to sharp, it's easy to soften in PP.The way round is more dificult,so... About the M9... seems to be a great camera, but at 9k+ 3 to 6k each lens, seems almost ridiculous to me.


Jul 16, 2010 at 04:42 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.16 #13 · Leica R Series Lenses


Adam,

FM'r Thrice(Dan) posted some really nice sharp images in this thread before he sold his copy to finance his M9:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/796846/0?keyword=leica,R,90#7342084

Unfortunately, the links no longer work.



Jul 16, 2010 at 05:27 PM
Grenache
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p.16 #14 · Leica R Series Lenses


The $1800 for the ZE 100 could instead get you a mint Leica 100 APO + 1:1 module. Zeiss vs. Leica is a matter of taste in terms of the bokeh and feel of the image. I have the Leica and have not seen anything that demonstrates that the Zeiss is sharper. I'll probably get one of those too eventually, but since this is the Leica R thread, it seemed worth championing one of the company's best lenses ever.

Wasn't this an image thread, anyway?

Jim



Jul 16, 2010 at 05:34 PM
agnius
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p.16 #15 · Leica R Series Lenses


Summilux 80 @ f5.6 - Canon 1dsm3.
Dance performance in India, stage lighting.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4800511330_4c7d5b855d_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4799919847_b8a22f8303_b.jpg





Jul 16, 2010 at 06:23 PM
adamdewilde
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p.16 #16 · Leica R Series Lenses


Grenache wrote:
The $1800 for the ZE 100 could instead get you a mint Leica 100 APO + 1:1 module. Zeiss vs. Leica is a matter of taste in terms of the bokeh and feel of the image. I have the Leica and have not seen anything that demonstrates that the Zeiss is sharper. I'll probably get one of those too eventually, but since this is the Leica R thread, it seemed worth championing one of the company's best lenses ever.

Wasn't this an image thread, anyway?

Jim



Grenache I won't even disagree with you. Somewhere buried in the alt thread is a post where someone has compared a 100 MP Z_ to a 100 Leica Macro (what version ?), but the tests image shows the lenses to literally be identical. I mean I had to download and open both files over each other to tell the differences. However, I believe the Zeiss to be 1 stop faster no? Also the Zeiss uses auto aperture, which is a big help for everything other then macro. AND the Zeiss has more 3D pop. Though I'm guessing the Leica has the signature Leica look, so it's probably a gem to use for portraits as well.

Though if I'm not wrong the Zeiss is as sharp at f/2 as the Leica is at f/2.8, just a smudge less DOF in the Zeiss...

I'd actually be curious to see portraits from this 100 Leica, it may render better bokeh at medium distances. Does anyone care to show some portrait images with the 100 Leica Macro.



Jul 17, 2010 at 12:07 AM
adamdewilde
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p.16 #17 · Leica R Series Lenses


vallejo wrote:
Tks for the insights. I'm very much about sharp images, as sharp as possible, so the 100 seems the way to go. And if a portrait looks to sharp, it's easy to soften in PP.The way round is more dificult,so... About the M9... seems to be a great camera, but at 9k+ 3 to 6k each lens, seems almost ridiculous to me.



Funny thing, the other day I took a shot of a friend with the 100 MP ZE, I was using lights so I shot at around f/5.6 he was in front of a low power octabox. Anyway, the image was so sharp that I took down some of it with a soft brush, and added a bit of noise grain, and it really gave it a cool effect. So you're right, I'd much rather dull an image, it looks a lot better then trying to add sharpness to an image.

Do however check out the 100 Leica macro, if you're into the Leica rendering. From that one alt post, it really seems worth it, especially if it's cheaper and your on a budget.



Jul 17, 2010 at 12:17 AM
adamdewilde
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p.16 #18 · Leica R Series Lenses


wayne seltzer wrote:
Adam,

FM'r Thrice(Dan) posted some really nice sharp images in this thread before he sold his copy to finance his M9:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/796846/0?keyword=leica,R,90#7342084

Unfortunately, the links no longer work.



I know, maybe we should talk Thrice into reposting, or fixing his links. In fact I'm going to msg him now



Jul 17, 2010 at 12:17 AM
Grenache
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p.16 #19 · Leica R Series Lenses


adamdewilde wrote:
Grenache I won't even disagree with you. Somewhere buried in the alt thread is a post where someone has compared a 100 MP Z_ to a 100 Leica Macro (what version ?), but the tests image shows the lenses to literally be identical. I mean I had to download and open both files over each other to tell the differences. However, I believe the Zeiss to be 1 stop faster no? Also the Zeiss uses auto aperture, which is a big help for everything other then macro. AND the Zeiss has more 3D pop. Though I'm guessing the Leica has
...Show more

Trade offs with Zeiss and Leica, depends on what you seek. Both lenses native are 1:2. Leica module sends it to 1:1 with no image degradation. Both built like tanks. Zeiss has an extra stop, though sharpness is really comparable at 2.8. Leica comes with a nice tripod collar (usually). Zeiss has autoaperture.

There are no bad choices here. As I said, I will probably snag a Zeiss at some point for landscape shots that I want the 3D look for. Not sure that the 3D side shows up appreciably at close up distances, but the bokeh differences are fairly large there.

Jim



Jul 17, 2010 at 09:06 AM
jhapeman
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p.16 #20 · Leica R Series Lenses


It's an image thread, so here's an image. Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron-R on Canon 7D, f/2.8:



Jeff



Jul 17, 2010 at 10:01 AM
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