This topic is in the 2009 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2009Trying to avoid the 17/4
p.3 #1Trying to avoid the 17/4
Got it. It turned out that the sentence "the 35/3.5 is the widest FL in the M645 Mamiya range" is not entirely accurate. It is the widest rectilinear FL in the M645 Mamiya range. I just learned that there's also the M645 24/4 fisheye. As a fisheye, it will be wider than any rectilinear 24mm after defishing, and that includes the Canon TS and Nikon PC samples. As a MF, it won't have much fishiness anyway (if any) on my 40D. Another good feature is that is has a build in hood, albeit a tiny one. Best of all, it costs less than half the price of the 17/4 TS. Now, to the difficult task of finding a good one. KEH has two 'UG' samples and E-bay has none. I'll have to wait.....
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Oct 28, 2009 at 06:13 AM
p.3 #2Trying to avoid the 17/4
I used to think like that but after I got my fisheye, I really learnt the hard way that defishing cost you sharpness. It's only good if you want to make a 360ยบ pano.
Oct 28, 2009 at 06:18 AM
p.3 #3Trying to avoid the 17/4
Which fisheye did you use and on which format?
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Oct 28, 2009 at 06:20 AM
p.3 #4Trying to avoid the 17/4
I used the Tokina 10-17, which is a VERY sharp lens. Even on 17mm with much less distortion, there's still some softening effect, specially around the corner. If you like to pixel peep, forget it. Oh and of course on a crop sensor.
Oct 28, 2009 at 06:24 AM
p.3 #5Trying to avoid the 17/4
Well, it's a slightly different case. You are talking about APS lens on APS camera while I talk about MF lens on APS camera. I'm starting off with most of the fishiness cut off even before defishing.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Oct 28, 2009 at 06:49 AM
p.3 #6Trying to avoid the 17/4
Hang on... if MF is double the size of a FF, wouldn't 24mm gives you a 77mm worth of AOV?
Like I said, even on 17mm with much less distortion, defishing it still soften the image somewhat, if you don't mind that then go for it. And anyway... good luck with that lens.
Like I said, even on 17mm with much less distortion, defishing it still soften the image somewhat, if you don't mind that then go for it. And anyway... good luck with that lens.
Oct 28, 2009 at 07:20 AM
p.3 #7Trying to avoid the 17/4
n0b0 wrote:
Hang on... if MF is double the size of a FF, wouldn't 24mm gives you a 77mm worth of AOV?
No. A 24mm MF lens will give the exact same AoV as a 24mm FF lens on APS i.e. 38.5mm AoV. However, as this particular 24mm MF lens is a fisheye, it will give me wider AoV even after defishing. How much wider? Only Jim can answer that......
n0b0 wrote:
Like I said, even on 17mm with much less distortion, defishing it still soften the image somewhat, if you don't mind that then go for it.
Well, the amount of fishiness which will actually remain (before defishing) is yet to be seen.
n0b0 wrote:
And anyway... good luck with that lens.
10X.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Hang on... if MF is double the size of a FF, wouldn't 24mm gives you a 77mm worth of AOV?
No. A 24mm MF lens will give the exact same AoV as a 24mm FF lens on APS i.e. 38.5mm AoV. However, as this particular 24mm MF lens is a fisheye, it will give me wider AoV even after defishing. How much wider? Only Jim can answer that......
n0b0 wrote:
Like I said, even on 17mm with much less distortion, defishing it still soften the image somewhat, if you don't mind that then go for it.
Well, the amount of fishiness which will actually remain (before defishing) is yet to be seen.
n0b0 wrote:
And anyway... good luck with that lens.
10X.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Oct 28, 2009 at 07:38 AM
p.3 #8Trying to avoid the 17/4
If you use shift or tilt with a MF 24mm fisheye on your T/S adapter, you will move into the part of the image that has more geometric distortion, and the distortion will be "off center". The defishing software may get quite confused with that kind of image. You may want to try defishing an off center crop of a fisheye image to see how practical it is to work with that kind of image.
Oct 28, 2009 at 07:52 AM
p.3 #9Trying to avoid the 17/4
That's a very good idea but where would I find such an image?
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Oct 28, 2009 at 07:55 AM
p.3 #10Trying to avoid the 17/4
Oh, almost forgot... As I understand it, fisheye lens doesn't need to be calibrated but once you added other factors like that T/S adaptor, I think you're gonna need more good luck to find a software that can defish it properly.
Oct 28, 2009 at 08:01 AM
p.3 #12Trying to avoid the 17/4
You can look for any fisheye image on the web that can be downloaded, taken on any format of camera. Look for one that includes buildings or other straight line objects, and ideally at a fairly high resolution. Then just try different crops from it and de fish them.
Oct 28, 2009 at 08:34 AM
p.3 #13Trying to avoid the 17/4
But normal defishing is simple. I need to find shifted to tilted ones, no?
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Oct 28, 2009 at 08:43 AM
p.3 #14Trying to avoid the 17/4
Yakim Peled wrote:
No. A 24mm MF lens will give the exact same AoV as a 24mm FF lens on APS i.e. 38.5mm AoV. However, as this particular 24mm MF lens is a fisheye, it will give me wider AoV even after defishing. How much wider? Only Jim can answer that......
Well, the amount of fishiness which will actually remain (before defishing) is yet to be seen.
10X.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
That'll give you approximately 108 degree of AoV, diagonally. The TS-E 17 unshifted 104, and shifted, well, 140 or so.
Kind regards, Wim
n0b0 wrote
Hang on... if MF is double the size of a FF, wouldn't 24mm gives you a 77mm worth of AOV?n0b0 wrote
Like I said, even on 17mm with much less distortion, defishing it still soften the image somewhat, if you don't mind that then go for it.n0b0 wrote
And anyway... good luck with that lens.Happy shooting,
Yakim.
That'll give you approximately 108 degree of AoV, diagonally. The TS-E 17 unshifted 104, and shifted, well, 140 or so.
Kind regards, Wim
Nov 15, 2009 at 05:30 PM
p.3 #15Trying to avoid the 17/4
108 degrees is before or after defishing?
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Nov 16, 2009 at 03:10 AM
p.3 #16Trying to avoid the 17/4
That'll be before defishing, but you will probably not lose a lot when defishing from a limited fsiheye AoV like this.
It just means you will have to get a TS-E 17 after all ...
Kind regards, Wim
It just means you will have to get a TS-E 17 after all ...
Kind regards, Wim
Nov 16, 2009 at 02:08 PM
p.3 #17Trying to avoid the 17/4
wimg wrote:
That'll be before defishing, but you will probably not lose a lot when defishing from a limited fsiheye AoV like this.
It just means you will have to get a TS-E 17 after all ...
Kind regards, Wim
That is not funny. It costs a lot of money, I don't shoot a lot of landscapes and my wife will be pissed off.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
That'll be before defishing, but you will probably not lose a lot when defishing from a limited fsiheye AoV like this.
It just means you will have to get a TS-E 17 after all ...
Kind regards, Wim
That is not funny. It costs a lot of money, I don't shoot a lot of landscapes and my wife will be pissed off.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Nov 17, 2009 at 12:36 AM
p.3 #18Trying to avoid the 17/4
Yakim,
Get a 5D mk1 and experiment with the old 24/3.5L TS-E mk1.
At least you will be in the full frame world, and that's a good thing for
wide shooting. That combo will be cheaper than the 17 TS-E.
The old 24 has it's limitations, but on a 5D with its coarser pixel pitch, it's
not too bad.
Get a 5D mk1 and experiment with the old 24/3.5L TS-E mk1.
At least you will be in the full frame world, and that's a good thing for
wide shooting. That combo will be cheaper than the 17 TS-E.
The old 24 has it's limitations, but on a 5D with its coarser pixel pitch, it's
not too bad.
Nov 17, 2009 at 01:02 AM
p.3 #19Trying to avoid the 17/4
I've thought about it but I really like the way LV automatically sets the correct SS (in Av mode) when I apply tilt or shift. Just lazy I guess.....
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Nov 17, 2009 at 01:31 AM
p.3 #20Trying to avoid the 17/4
Yakim Peled wrote:
It just means you will have to get a TS-E 17 after all ...
Kind regards, WimThat is not funny. It costs a lot of money, I don't shoot a lot of landscapes and my wife will be pissed off.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Imagine how pissed off she'll be when she realizes you spent money on fisheye lenses and/or software and you still have to get the TS-E - only later. That'll be more expensive than getting it right away!
Antje, helpful
wimg wrote
That'll be before defishing, but you will probably not lose a lot when defishing from a limited fsiheye AoV like this.It just means you will have to get a TS-E 17 after all ...
Kind regards, Wim
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Imagine how pissed off she'll be when she realizes you spent money on fisheye lenses and/or software and you still have to get the TS-E - only later.
That'll be more expensive than getting it right away!Antje, helpful
Nov 17, 2009 at 01:36 AM