Got it. It turned out that the sentence "the 35/3.5 is the widest FL in the M645 Mamiya range" is not entirely accurate. It is the widest rectilinear FL in the M645 Mamiya range. I just learned that there's also the M645 24/4 fisheye. As a fisheye, it will be wider than any rectilinear 24mm after defishing, and that includes the Canon TS and Nikon PC samples. As a MF, it won't have much fishiness anyway (if any) on my 40D. Another good feature is that is has a build in hood, albeit a tiny one. Best of all, it costs less than half the price of the 17/4 TS. Now, to the difficult task of finding a good one. KEH has two 'UG' samples and E-bay has none. I'll have to wait.....
I used to think like that but after I got my fisheye, I really learnt the hard way that defishing cost you sharpness. It's only good if you want to make a 360º pano.
I used the Tokina 10-17, which is a VERY sharp lens. Even on 17mm with much less distortion, there's still some softening effect, specially around the corner. If you like to pixel peep, forget it. Oh and of course on a crop sensor.
Well, it's a slightly different case. You are talking about APS lens on APS camera while I talk about MF lens on APS camera. I'm starting off with most of the fishiness cut off even before defishing.
Hang on... if MF is double the size of a FF, wouldn't 24mm gives you a 77mm worth of AOV?
Like I said, even on 17mm with much less distortion, defishing it still soften the image somewhat, if you don't mind that then go for it. And anyway... good luck with that lens.
n0b0 wrote:
Hang on... if MF is double the size of a FF, wouldn't 24mm gives you a 77mm worth of AOV?
No. A 24mm MF lens will give the exact same AoV as a 24mm FF lens on APS i.e. 38.5mm AoV. However, as this particular 24mm MF lens is a fisheye, it will give me wider AoV even after defishing. How much wider? Only Jim can answer that......
n0b0 wrote:
Like I said, even on 17mm with much less distortion, defishing it still soften the image somewhat, if you don't mind that then go for it.
Well, the amount of fishiness which will actually remain (before defishing) is yet to be seen.
n0b0 wrote:
And anyway... good luck with that lens.
If you use shift or tilt with a MF 24mm fisheye on your T/S adapter, you will move into the part of the image that has more geometric distortion, and the distortion will be "off center". The defishing software may get quite confused with that kind of image. You may want to try defishing an off center crop of a fisheye image to see how practical it is to work with that kind of image.
Oh, almost forgot... As I understand it, fisheye lens doesn't need to be calibrated but once you added other factors like that T/S adaptor, I think you're gonna need more good luck to find a software that can defish it properly.
You can look for any fisheye image on the web that can be downloaded, taken on any format of camera. Look for one that includes buildings or other straight line objects, and ideally at a fairly high resolution. Then just try different crops from it and de fish them.
Yakim Peled wrote:
No. A 24mm MF lens will give the exact same AoV as a 24mm FF lens on APS i.e. 38.5mm AoV. However, as this particular 24mm MF lens is a fisheye, it will give me wider AoV even after defishing. How much wider? Only Jim can answer that......
Well, the amount of fishiness which will actually remain (before defishing) is yet to be seen.
10X.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
That'll give you approximately 108 degree of AoV, diagonally. The TS-E 17 unshifted 104, and shifted, well, 140 or so.
Get a 5D mk1 and experiment with the old 24/3.5L TS-E mk1.
At least you will be in the full frame world, and that's a good thing for
wide shooting. That combo will be cheaper than the 17 TS-E.
The old 24 has it's limitations, but on a 5D with its coarser pixel pitch, it's
not too bad.
Yakim Peled wrote:
That is not funny. It costs a lot of money, I don't shoot a lot of landscapes and my wife will be pissed off.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Imagine how pissed off she'll be when she realizes you spent money on fisheye lenses and/or software and you still have to get the TS-E - only later. That'll be more expensive than getting it right away!
