To respond to an earlier point the 7D is not the 3D. There are many who have been waiting - years - for Canon to make a FF or 1.3 crop factor camera that fits between a 1 series and an xxD series - and it's not the 5D. More like a Nikon D700 with Canon mount.
Will it happen?? Who knows - I stopped holding my breath 2 years ago . . .
If the 7D was FF or 1.3 crop I'd be all over it. I can't move back to 1.6 crop. For me the wide angle is too important - but if I was a birder I'd be really happy now.
One of the great things of having video in the body is that it significantly reduces the cost of it because it makes the camera appeal to a much wider audience.
joekraft wrote:
If canon did have a lineup of 1x, 3x, 5x, 7x: High level, what do you see that being, I mean in terms of what each line would represent. Would there still be the XXd line?
There will still be an xxD line, IMO, which will be spec'd closer to the Nikon D90.
I don't think there will be both a 3D and a 5D. Just a single model - a 7D body with a FF sensor.
Don't know how they will call it.
No sub-$2000 FF camera for sure. Such a camera will break Canon's entire pricing structure.
Even the $800 Rebel will look overpriced compared to a sub-$2000 FF camera.
EOS 60D, digic4,12.1mp,7fps,100-3200 ISO,liveview,720p video,-1299.00
EOS 3D same specs as 7D but in FF... 3699.00
EOS 1dmk4, digic4x3,will need its own power supply an extra battery to run them,a new flash memory onboard varies for wanted buffer size,18mp,12 fps,2x SDHC slots,A/F fully customizeable with firmware 63pts available,metering F8 ev -1.5-22 4399.00
EOS 1dsmk4 Same a 1dmk4 but FF 32mp 6999.00
Mike V wrote:
One of the great things of having video in the body is that it significantly reduces the cost of it because it makes the camera appeal to a much wider audience.
Mike V wrote:
One of the great things of having video in the body is that it significantly reduces the cost of it because it makes the camera appeal to a much wider audience.
I agree, the still-photo photographers here berate the 7D DSLR for having video, but many people will buy it instead of a plain video camera and be excited to also have the ability to shoot stills.
i humbly submit that the "7D but full frame" is going to be the 5D3.
we still have another 12-24 months before it would be released, and we have already seen how fast the technology can come down to mortal prices with the D700, a850 and 7D.
by the time that the 5D2 gets replaced, we'll already have come to expect the 7D tech and features as a birthright. canon will have to make the 5D3 what we thought the 5D2 should have been. (our hopes in the pricing-features arenas are always at least a generation premature it seems...)
i'd be very surprised if Canon doesn't copy Nikons DX/FX switching format for its 1D. As 1D user I'd love to see that feature incorporated with a massive sensor (mp size). I know I am being greedy but to be able to switch between full and crop frame size would be cameragasam.
Video is an amazing feature to have. I feel that having video in camera will inspire a whole in generation of cinematographers. Just look at what StillMotion achieves with the 5D2 wedding videos it does.
Plus I don't give a FF what RG has to say. I'm sure some of us here have had much closer ties with Canon than RG's invite to Canon HQ. ;-)
There is no point to DX/FX switching except to appease all those who bought DX lenses thinking Nikon would never release a FF camera by giving them a solution to still use those lenses on FF. The problem with Canon's EF-S is that it's a physically different system that requires the rear lens element to be closer to the film plane, therefore on non APS-C cameras those lenses will interfere with the mirror. Therefore such a crop feature on a FF body would likely be limited to non EF-S lenses. But those using FF capable lenses probably want to shoot FF... at least I would.
One can achieve the exact same effect of DX on a FF camera by cropping.
I much prefer the mRAW and sRAW solution in the 7D that uses the full frame when wanting lower resolution files.
digitalbug30d wrote:
canon needs more than 2 FF bodies....so this why they need a 3D like I described not to over the top specs...
Based strictly on my needs, the missing third FF body should be the 16-18 MP 10 fps 1D, which will then do great double duty as not only a killer sports/action camera but also as a great all-around camera for virtually any application (which is kind of what I miss now with the Mark III). I'd rather see something like this than a FF 7D, which while nice, would certainly skimp on some premium features such as high fps, deep RAW buffer and various other small but nice features one appreciates after exclusively using the 1D series.
I want one, premium, do it all camera. I'm willing to pay for it. And I'll take two please.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
I think it matters to Canon what they are called, they have a definite structure. IMO the 7 series will only be crop, the 5 series and 3 series (if it ever arrives) will only be FF (I can't see 1.3x crop in a 3 series). The model progression is 1D > 3D > 5D > 7D and I think this price structure will always be maintained. There won't be a FF 7Ds for example as that would be dearer than the 5D II. You would at least need a 5D III or 3D.
No one at all predicted the 7D being what was released. I had always thought it would be an entry level FF, essentially a update of the 5D. So I'm no longer conceding the 3 series is dead and buried. ...Show more →
I'd agree on the possibility of a '3D', a camera that falls between the 5 and 1 series. Something introduced to compete directly with Nikon's D700/D700x, as they have done with Nikon's D300s. Whether or not it would have a FF or APS-H sensor is another story (Remember, no one thought the 7D would have a 1.6x sensor). Another possibility would be to release a '5DIIn' updated with a new AF system, flash master and other goodies the 7D is associated with. The big question is what Canon will do with their 1-series--will they continue with the APS-H format? Will they release a lower mp FF sensor (18-21) for the '1DIV' and a higher mp sensor (25-30) for the '1DsIV'? Who really knows, but the 7D, again, is a sign of things to come and a good one at that IMHO.
I think we should be including Nikon and Sony's future too, in all this .
James being a resident of the US North East probably will not agree with me but the effects of this recession are going to be with us for a while yet, and this is going to have an ongoing affect on discretionary spending and such thoughts will be getting a lot of attention in the board rooms of Canon, Nikon and Sony.
My background being a farmer makes me inherently conservative when it comes to economics but it is my guess that whilst R&D will continue apace we could easily slip back to when the top of the line pro cameras were rolled over to coincide with every second Olympics.
From my point of view, all of you out there with the latest and the greatest, still screaming for more should maybe take a reality check and to kick this off, I am offering to James, that for a year, we swap gear.
Yep. James can do a Henri Cartier Bresson impersonation with my D70s and I will take a peek at how the other 2.5% manage with their pro gear.
I can't give you Canon's sales figures, but I can give you figures from a large rental house: we stock 3 times more 5D2s than we did 5Ds at their peak (and that was our previously best renting camera). The 5D2 rents more than 3 times more frequently than any other camera we've ever stocked and the number would be higher except we never could get enough to keep them in stock.
I think on this board we don't care if video production companies buy 5D IIs by the dozen (and they do) but I suspect Canon's quite content with it.
joekraft wrote:
If canon did have a lineup of 1x, 3x, 5x, 7x: High level, what do you see that being, I mean in terms of what each line would represent. Would there still be the XXd line?
Definitely the xxD line-up will continue and I fully expect the 60D to be announced for PMA 2010. It will be exactly in line with expectations as a 50D upgrade with HD video, the 18MP sensor, a few 7D features, but not the big ones. But the price will drop to at least $1199 and it will be used to clobber the D90 and a380.
The 3 series could easily be a 5D II + 7D hybrid, not necessarily a small form factor 1Ds minus a few features. I don't think Canon will allow the 3D to step on the 1 series toes as much as the D700 does on the D3, although better than what may have been expected in light of the 7D. A 1Ds IV would be 28-30MP and a 3D 21.1MP already providing a clear distinction. Also 1Ds IV may see even better AF, 6fps, plus all the best bits of the 7D and may see further improvements in LCD, metering. Obviously just guessing wildly here.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Definitely the xxD line-up will continue and I fully expect the 60D to be announced for PMA 2010. It will be exactly in line with expectations as a 50D upgrade with HD video, the 18MP sensor, a few 7D features, but not the big ones. But the price will drop to at least $1199 and it will be used to clobber the D90 and a380.
The 3 series could easily be a 5D II + 7D hybrid, not necessarily a small form factor 1Ds minus a few features. I don't think Canon will allow the 3D to step on the 1 series toes as much as the D700 does on the D3, although better than what may have been expected in light of the 7D. A 1Ds IV would be 28-30MP and a 3D 21.1MP already providing a clear distinction. Also 1Ds IV may see even better AF, 6fps, plus all the best bits of the 7D and may see further improvements in LCD, metering. Obviously just guessing wildly here....Show more →
I agree with you. I think the only way Canon can try to compete with a possible D700x would be to introduce their 21MP FF sensor into the 7D (3D?), with 6.8fps (144mp/sec), and keep everything the same (including the AF, exactly like Nikon did with the D300/D700).
.
