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Archive 2009Official 7D Thread
p.16 #1Official 7D Thread
abqnmusa wrote:
the 7D sensor has the smallest pixels of any camera Canon has produced to date
the smaller the pixel, the less sensitive to light
the result is more noise and less dynamic range
The dynamic range is already figured out:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/809574/0#7481182
And at 11.26 stops it is about 1/3 stop better than the 50D, at pixel level.
Not much, but every improvement is welcomed
the 7D sensor has the smallest pixels of any camera Canon has produced to date
the smaller the pixel, the less sensitive to light
the result is more noise and less dynamic range
The dynamic range is already figured out:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/809574/0#7481182
And at 11.26 stops it is about 1/3 stop better than the 50D, at pixel level.
Not much, but every improvement is welcomed
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:41 PM
p.16 #2Official 7D Thread
M Vers wrote:
Not entirely convinced this camera is a "grand slam" let alone a game winning walk off. We've yet to see the real world samples or hear real world experiences.
couldn't agree more. Though I would LOVE this camera to be a game winner, 18MP on a relatively small sensor sounds like noise to me. And this still doesn't compete in the 1-series / D3 range either. Sounds like a fantastic camera though.
Not entirely convinced this camera is a "grand slam" let alone a game winning walk off. We've yet to see the real world samples or hear real world experiences.
couldn't agree more. Though I would LOVE this camera to be a game winner, 18MP on a relatively small sensor sounds like noise to me. And this still doesn't compete in the 1-series / D3 range either. Sounds like a fantastic camera though.
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:57 PM
p.16 #3Official 7D Thread
keithreeder wrote:
Why? Honest question.
I see nothing there that a camera with decent AF and a reasonably fast lens attached couldn't cope with perfectly well.
Those really are some nice shots and they are visually striking, but I've gotta agree with Keith here, and as a matter of fact I would bet that the new 7D could handle that without a hitch. Even the 5D mark II's center point+assist could.
cogitech wrote
With the 7D focusing screen, this will not be possible. With a 5D, 40D or 1D, it is. Simple as that.I see nothing there that a camera with decent AF and a reasonably fast lens attached couldn't cope with perfectly well.
Those really are some nice shots and they are visually striking, but I've gotta agree with Keith here, and as a matter of fact I would bet that the new 7D could handle that without a hitch. Even the 5D mark II's center point+assist could.
Sep 01, 2009 at 03:22 PM
p.16 #4Official 7D Thread
sskoutas wrote:
couldn't agree more. Though I would LOVE this camera to be a game winner, 18MP on a relatively small sensor sounds like noise to me. And this still doesn't compete in the 1-series / D3 range either. Sounds like a fantastic camera though.
Definitely- it could have been a larger format sensor. But think about it- when was the last time Canonites felt so empowered with features? I'd say if anything Canon has dispelled the notion that they are unwilling to place great features in their non 1-series bodies.
Especially with the onslaught of Nikon in the past year, this one feels very redeeming in my opinion.
M Vers wrote
Not entirely convinced this camera is a "grand slam" let alone a game winning walk off. We've yet to see the real world samples or hear real world experiences.Definitely- it could have been a larger format sensor. But think about it- when was the last time Canonites felt so empowered with features? I'd say if anything Canon has dispelled the notion that they are unwilling to place great features in their non 1-series bodies.
Especially with the onslaught of Nikon in the past year, this one feels very redeeming in my opinion.
Sep 01, 2009 at 03:24 PM
p.16 #5Official 7D Thread
sskoutas wrote:
.
And this still doesn't compete in the 1-series / D3 range either. Sounds like a fantastic camera though.
Your getting perhaps 80% of a MK3 or D3 in a camera that about 40% of the price.. Sounds to me like its competing pretty well!!!
.
And this still doesn't compete in the 1-series / D3 range either. Sounds like a fantastic camera though.
Your getting perhaps 80% of a MK3 or D3 in a camera that about 40% of the price.. Sounds to me like its competing pretty well!!!
Sep 01, 2009 at 03:27 PM
p.16 #6Official 7D Thread
drobertfranz wrote:
Your getting perhaps 80% of a MK3 or D3 in a camera that about 40% of the price.. Sounds to me like its competing pretty well!!!
+1
sskoutas wrote
And this still doesn't compete in the 1-series / D3 range either. Sounds like a fantastic camera though.+1
Sep 01, 2009 at 03:32 PM
p.16 #7Official 7D Thread
Trent Ferguson wrote:
If they can keep the 40D noise levels @ 18mp, thats a major achievement IMO. Lets see how this guy does in the field.If the 7D matches the noise levels from my 40Ds, I'll be amazed. And I'll be ordering two of them.
40D noise with an 80% increase in resolution? It's a no-brainer.
Another interesting question: with MRAW, do you get 40D resolution with 5D noise levels? That file size is way more than sufficient for night sports, high school gyms and the like.
thedutt wrote
dgrinde wrote
A little disapointed with HIGH ISO NOISE on 7d based on RG pictures, ouch. They didn't look much better than my 40D.40D noise with an 80% increase in resolution? It's a no-brainer.
Another interesting question: with MRAW, do you get 40D resolution with 5D noise levels? That file size is way more than sufficient for night sports, high school gyms and the like.
Sep 01, 2009 at 03:33 PM
p.16 #8Official 7D Thread
Cogitech: beautiful images. I assume that's with an FD 85mm 1.2 SSC? I still have the New FD version of the 85L, but have never fitted it to a modern camera. Be interested to know what adapter you are using, as FD lenses lose infinity focus on EOS bodies... (Both those lenses probably can be focused faster manually than the 85L II can autofocus. 
)
)Sep 01, 2009 at 03:38 PM
p.16 #9Official 7D Thread
The one thing I haven't seen is whether or not the 7D has Micro adjust. Sorry if this was covered, I did look. I can't imagine they would not include that.
Sep 01, 2009 at 03:50 PM
p.16 #10Official 7D Thread
Jeff wrote:
Better check your math, it's nowhere near an 80% increase in resolution...
It depends how you use the term, in the computer programming/graphics and DVD/blu-ray/HDTV world the total pixel count was referred to as the resolution and a 640x400 was said to have twice the resolution of 640x200. I mean that is 100% how the term was used. So many people use the term in that sense for DSLR files too.
Trent Ferguson wrote
40D noise with an 80% increase in resolution? It's a no-brainer.It depends how you use the term, in the computer programming/graphics and DVD/blu-ray/HDTV world the total pixel count was referred to as the resolution and a 640x400 was said to have twice the resolution of 640x200. I mean that is 100% how the term was used. So many people use the term in that sense for DSLR files too.
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:00 PM
p.16 #11Official 7D Thread
It's there.
(The micro-adjust, I mean).
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 04:02 PM · View previous versions
(The micro-adjust, I mean).
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 04:02 PM · View previous versions
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:01 PM
p.16 #12Official 7D Thread
orangefirefish wrote:
Oversight? Blatant crippling? Do you not realize you are in the vast minority? A majority of those who choose to go with the 7D will never use MF, and if they do not enough to need an additional screen.You could say the same thing for the 40D, but they had the insight to offer the Ef-S screen for that camera. It would cost absolutely nothing for them to have offered an S-type screen for this camera, but instead they issue a press release explicitly stating that they will not offer replacement screens, because they have a fancy new electronic grid-lines and AF-points overlay. Typical Canon retardation.actually I commend Canon on this move. Canon will satisfy way more photogs with the ability to turn the gridlines on and off on the camera than by offering a tiny tiny minority of users the option to use MF with a special screen. I'm sorry- but by choosing to MF you're essentially making a series of personal compromises and Canon obviously should not have to cater to your eccentric needs. I really don't get your negativity- Canon places an innovative AF system in this camera, which shouldn't matter at all to you because you like manual focus. Therefore you...Show more →
I wouldn't put down MF screens, especially with canon AF has acted with fast lenses at times. Granted the canon super precision still dont give as much precision as a micro prism collar which is annoying but it still helps a bit and I had a third party screen for my 20D that was pretty useful at times.
cogitech wrote
M Vers wrote
cogitech wrote
How difficult would it have been to make replaceable screens and then throw the overlays onto whatever screen was there? To offer a camera of this class with no precision focusing screen option is either a huge oversight or a blatant crippling of the camera.I wouldn't put down MF screens, especially with canon AF has acted with fast lenses at times. Granted the canon super precision still dont give as much precision as a micro prism collar which is annoying but it still helps a bit and I had a third party screen for my 20D that was pretty useful at times.
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:02 PM
p.16 #13Official 7D Thread
drobertfranz wrote:
And this still doesn't compete in the 1-series / D3 range either. Sounds like a fantastic camera though.
Your getting perhaps 80% of a MK3 or D3 in a camera that about 40% of the price.. Sounds to me like its competing pretty well!!!
I guess it all comes down to how you figure your percentages with respect to features. Perhaps expecting a 1.0x or 1.3x sensor at this price point would've been a bit much, but the fact that a D3 has such a format while the 7D does not makes the 7D a hell of a lot less than "80%" of the D3. I don't really see much need for a camera like this in the lineup... Or perhaps considered another way, I see very little justification for the 50D line of cameras with the release of the 7D. Perhaps that's the point, but I think comparing this camera to the D3 is inapt.
Arka C.
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 04:05 PM · View previous versions
sskoutas wrote
.Your getting perhaps 80% of a MK3 or D3 in a camera that about 40% of the price.. Sounds to me like its competing pretty well!!!
I guess it all comes down to how you figure your percentages with respect to features. Perhaps expecting a 1.0x or 1.3x sensor at this price point would've been a bit much, but the fact that a D3 has such a format while the 7D does not makes the 7D a hell of a lot less than "80%" of the D3. I don't really see much need for a camera like this in the lineup... Or perhaps considered another way, I see very little justification for the 50D line of cameras with the release of the 7D. Perhaps that's the point, but I think comparing this camera to the D3 is inapt.
Arka C.
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 04:05 PM · View previous versions
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:03 PM
p.16 #14Official 7D Thread
keithreeder wrote:
But not as many as you think, I reckon.
This camera has "bird photographer" written all over it, and I for one feel like they designed the bugger especially for me.
I have zero interest in manual focus, and I'm willing to be that - among its probable intended constituency - that'll be the norm.
The number of folk likely to buy a new camera with a brand new and (on the face of it) significantly enhanced AF system so that they can then MF with it, will be tiny I'm sure, and I suspect that MFers were just not in Canon's thinking...Show more →
just yesterday i had some birds up in the trees and the branches had the 5d2 af so confused it was hopeless it wouldnt lock was jumping all over only way was to MF.
cogitech wrote
More than you think.This camera has "bird photographer" written all over it, and I for one feel like they designed the bugger especially for me.
I have zero interest in manual focus, and I'm willing to be that - among its probable intended constituency - that'll be the norm.
The number of folk likely to buy a new camera with a brand new and (on the face of it) significantly enhanced AF system so that they can then MF with it, will be tiny I'm sure, and I suspect that MFers were just not in Canon's thinking...Show more →
Earlier quote
that they have removed an essential feature from a camera in a class that has always included such feature.just yesterday i had some birds up in the trees and the branches had the 5d2 af so confused it was hopeless it wouldnt lock was jumping all over only way was to MF.
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:04 PM
p.16 #15Official 7D Thread
You know, manual focusing is rather liberating when you have time to do it. I find I can tune in more to the composition and the moment when I'm not constantly thinking about whether my active AF point is over the subject's eye.
One of the reason's I stayed with Canon in the AF era was they were the first ones to do AF lenses with full-time manual focus: no mode switch required. It's a great feature that is still unmatched in the majority of other vendor's prime lenses.
One of the reason's I stayed with Canon in the AF era was they were the first ones to do AF lenses with full-time manual focus: no mode switch required. It's a great feature that is still unmatched in the majority of other vendor's prime lenses.
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:13 PM
p.16 #16Official 7D Thread
garyvot wrote:
Cogitech: beautiful images. I assume that's with an FD 85mm 1.2 SSC? I still have the New FD version of the 85L, but have never fitted it to a modern camera. Be interested to know what adapter you are using, as FD lenses lose infinity focus on EOS bodies... (Both those lenses probably can be focused faster manually than the 85L II can autofocus. )
Hi Gary,
Yes. Thats the one. I have converted the lens to EOS mount.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3593/3451653002_74cf7422b2_o.jpg
It is fabulous! A better focuser for sure and it has less CA than the EF versions. I'm talking minimal, even wide open.
Cogitech: beautiful images. I assume that's with an FD 85mm 1.2 SSC? I still have the New FD version of the 85L, but have never fitted it to a modern camera. Be interested to know what adapter you are using, as FD lenses lose infinity focus on EOS bodies... (Both those lenses probably can be focused faster manually than the 85L II can autofocus.
)Hi Gary,
Yes. Thats the one. I have converted the lens to EOS mount.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3593/3451653002_74cf7422b2_o.jpg
It is fabulous! A better focuser for sure and it has less CA than the EF versions. I'm talking minimal, even wide open.
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:51 PM
p.16 #17Official 7D Thread
garyvot wrote:
You know, manual focusing is rather liberating when you have time to do it. I find I can tune in more to the composition and the moment when I'm not constantly thinking about whether my active AF point is over the subject's eye.
Precisely why I have basically abandoned AF for 95% of my shooting. I call it "compocusing" and it is the thing that made the biggest difference in my photos. Way more than any gear purchase has.
You know, manual focusing is rather liberating when you have time to do it. I find I can tune in more to the composition and the moment when I'm not constantly thinking about whether my active AF point is over the subject's eye.
Precisely why I have basically abandoned AF for 95% of my shooting. I call it "compocusing" and it is the thing that made the biggest difference in my photos. Way more than any gear purchase has.
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:53 PM
p.16 #18Official 7D Thread
But enough of that. The 7D isn't for me. So be it. Sorry for polluting the love fest. Carry on.
Sep 01, 2009 at 04:57 PM
p.16 #19Official 7D Thread
skibum5 wrote:
Oversight? Blatant crippling? Do you not realize you are in the vast minority? A majority of those who choose to go with the 7D will never use MF, and if they do not enough to need an additional screen.You could say the same thing for the 40D, but they had the insight to offer the Ef-S screen for that camera. It would cost absolutely nothing for them to have offered an S-type screen for this camera, but instead they issue a press release explicitly stating that they will not offer replacement screens, because they have a fancy new electronic grid-lines and AF-points overlay. Typical Canon retardation.actually I commend Canon on this move. Canon will satisfy way more photogs with the ability to turn the gridlines on and off on the camera than by offering a tiny tiny minority of users the option to use MF with a special screen. I'm sorry- but by choosing to MF you're essentially making a series of personal compromises and Canon obviously should not have to cater to your eccentric needs. I really don't get your negativity- Canon places an innovative AF system in this camera, which shouldn't matter at all to you because you like manual focus. Therefore you shouldn't complain because you're clearly not the target market. Geez- retardation? Certainly not how I would put it. I'm sure there's a cam out there for you- just not this one, so hush up already with the screen issue. Nobody is making you buy it.I wouldn't put down MF screens, especially with canon AF has acted with fast lenses at times. Granted the canon super precision still dont give as much precision as a micro prism collar which is annoying but it still helps a bit and I had a third party screen for my 20D that was pretty useful at times.
Who's putting down MF screens? I simply said those who MF more than not are the minority. Is that a crazy assumption? Canon is simply pleasing the market majority--cursing them for that is a bit, I don't know, ignorant. Aside from that, there is no proof that you won't be able to replace the Canon screen with an aftermarket third party screen.
orangefirefish wrote
cogitech wrote
M Vers wrote
cogitech wrote
How difficult would it have been to make replaceable screens and then throw the overlays onto whatever screen was there? To offer a camera of this class with no precision focusing screen option is either a huge oversight or a blatant crippling of the camera.Who's putting down MF screens? I simply said those who MF more than not are the minority. Is that a crazy assumption? Canon is simply pleasing the market majority--cursing them for that is a bit, I don't know, ignorant. Aside from that, there is no proof that you won't be able to replace the Canon screen with an aftermarket third party screen.
Sep 01, 2009 at 05:27 PM
p.16 #20Official 7D Thread
This is not the highest density sensor made by canon.
The SX1 IS with a CMOS sensor has a pixel density that equates to 303mp on a 1.0x crop camera or 118mp on a 1.6 crop camera.
The SX1 IS with a CMOS sensor has a pixel density that equates to 303mp on a 1.0x crop camera or 118mp on a 1.6 crop camera.
Sep 01, 2009 at 05:33 PM