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Archive 2009Official 7D Thread
p.12 #1Official 7D Thread
dhphoto wrote:
If 5DII owners are that stupid then they deserve to feel bad about their purchase. But I don't think many are.
Well, "stupid" isn't the word I'd use. Imagine this scenario: someone before the 7D announcement needs a camera. He wants something more than the 50D, but the 1-series are out of the question (too expensive, too big, whatever). That "something" could be better image quality, some features (video, viewfinder size, etc.), or both. The 5DII was the only camera in that space, so it was the obvious choice.
Now there's a 7D that may or may not have met this user's needs better than the 5DII. I can imagine being frustrated if I were in that position even though I realize technology marches on and you make your choices based on the present and not the nebulous future. We all know it's the nature of the beast, but that doesn't prevent one from being at least slightly miffed when something that's a better fit comes along so soon after a purchase.
So this person wasn't stupid for making that decision, but it still stands to reason that he would've been happier with a 7D (or a FF 3D with the 7D's features at a slightly higher price) if such a camera had existed when it was buying time.
I bought my 5DII and have been using it for many months, something I couldn't have done with a 7D. I knew about it's focusing system when I bought it, but the IQ is just so good it more than makes up for it's lack of AF points.
For you. And truly, I'm glad for you. Conversely I didn't buy one because the AF was an issue sufficiently bothersome to deter me. But this goes back to what I was saying earlier, that not everybody who bought the 5DII did so for the same reasons and the same IQ-vs-features balance that you're comfortable with, and for some of those people the 7D would represent a better option.
If 5DII owners are that stupid then they deserve to feel bad about their purchase. But I don't think many are.
Well, "stupid" isn't the word I'd use. Imagine this scenario: someone before the 7D announcement needs a camera. He wants something more than the 50D, but the 1-series are out of the question (too expensive, too big, whatever). That "something" could be better image quality, some features (video, viewfinder size, etc.), or both. The 5DII was the only camera in that space, so it was the obvious choice.
Now there's a 7D that may or may not have met this user's needs better than the 5DII. I can imagine being frustrated if I were in that position even though I realize technology marches on and you make your choices based on the present and not the nebulous future. We all know it's the nature of the beast, but that doesn't prevent one from being at least slightly miffed when something that's a better fit comes along so soon after a purchase.
So this person wasn't stupid for making that decision, but it still stands to reason that he would've been happier with a 7D (or a FF 3D with the 7D's features at a slightly higher price) if such a camera had existed when it was buying time.
I bought my 5DII and have been using it for many months, something I couldn't have done with a 7D. I knew about it's focusing system when I bought it, but the IQ is just so good it more than makes up for it's lack of AF points.
For you. And truly, I'm glad for you. Conversely I didn't buy one because the AF was an issue sufficiently bothersome to deter me. But this goes back to what I was saying earlier, that not everybody who bought the 5DII did so for the same reasons and the same IQ-vs-features balance that you're comfortable with, and for some of those people the 7D would represent a better option.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:25 AM
p.12 #2Official 7D Thread
RalphJ wrote
"More appropriate" compared to the Sony 850 or the Nikon D3x? The fact that the 5D2 is never in stock for very long anywhere suggests that there are plenty of photographers who don't think it's overpriced, and the poll in thread 809454 suggests pretty strongly that a lot of photographers will continue to prefer the 5D2 to the 7D (I for one have zero interest in swapping my 5D2 for a 7D).
My guess is that the 5DMKII is not in stock very long anywhere because Canon is limiting the available stock. I believe Canon will release a 7Ds soon with a FF 24MP sensor and the specs of the 7D.
The 5DMKII will be no more.
Jim
"More appropriate" compared to the Sony 850 or the Nikon D3x? The fact that the 5D2 is never in stock for very long anywhere suggests that there are plenty of photographers who don't think it's overpriced, and the poll in thread 809454 suggests pretty strongly that a lot of photographers will continue to prefer the 5D2 to the 7D (I for one have zero interest in swapping my 5D2 for a 7D).
My guess is that the 5DMKII is not in stock very long anywhere because Canon is limiting the available stock. I believe Canon will release a 7Ds soon with a FF 24MP sensor and the specs of the 7D.
The 5DMKII will be no more.
Jim
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:34 AM
p.12 #3Official 7D Thread
Jim Victory wrote:
My guess is that the 5DMKII is not in stock very long anywhere because Canon is limiting the available stock. I believe Canon will release a 7Ds soon with a FF 24MP sensor and the specs of the 7D.
The 5DMKII will be no more.
Jim
That actually makes sense...
My guess is that the 5DMKII is not in stock very long anywhere because Canon is limiting the available stock. I believe Canon will release a 7Ds soon with a FF 24MP sensor and the specs of the 7D.
The 5DMKII will be no more.
Jim
That actually makes sense...
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:35 AM
p.12 #4Official 7D Thread
tbartick wrote:
No need to purchase after market "focus" screens!! Now just a push of a button will do the trick! Thank you, Canon.
This is very bad news for people who prefer manual focus. It is not likely that they have managed to electronically "overlay" a super-precision S-type screen.
F%^k you, Canon.
No need to purchase after market "focus" screens!! Now just a push of a button will do the trick! Thank you, Canon.
This is very bad news for people who prefer manual focus. It is not likely that they have managed to electronically "overlay" a super-precision S-type screen.
F%^k you, Canon.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:36 AM
p.12 #5Official 7D Thread
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
Well, "stupid" isn't the word I'd use. Imagine this scenario: someone before the 7D announcement needs a camera. He wants something more than the 50D, but the 1-series are out of the question (too expensive, too big, whatever). That "something" could be better image quality, some features (video, viewfinder size, etc.), or both. The 5DII was the only camera in that space, so it was the obvious choice.
This doesn't make sense. The 5D and the 7D and the 50D are all distinctly different cameras.
Well, "stupid" isn't the word I'd use. Imagine this scenario: someone before the 7D announcement needs a camera. He wants something more than the 50D, but the 1-series are out of the question (too expensive, too big, whatever). That "something" could be better image quality, some features (video, viewfinder size, etc.), or both. The 5DII was the only camera in that space, so it was the obvious choice.
This doesn't make sense. The 5D and the 7D and the 50D are all distinctly different cameras.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:37 AM
p.12 #6Official 7D Thread
RalphJ wrote:
This is one of the funniest claims I've read in a long time. Thanks for the chuckle!
You're welcome! Hence the smiley at the end of my original statement that you chopped off of my quote
"More appropriate" compared to the Sony 850 or the Nikon D3x? The fact that the 5D2 is never in stock for very long anywhere suggests that there are plenty of photographers who don't think it's overpriced, and the poll in thread 809454 suggests pretty strongly that a lot of photographers will continue to prefer the 5D2 to the 7D (I for one have zero interest in swapping my 5D2 for a 7D).
In the real world, there's always something better "coming down the road in a year or two." I don't doubt that in 5 years all of these 2009 cameras...Show more →
"More appropriate" to what it offers vs. the competition, whether that's internally (50D) or externally (A850, D700). I realize there are plenty of photographers who have and will continue to pay $2700 for it. That's their prerogative, and I'm sure plenty of them are happy to do so. Personally I considered it overpriced at launch compared to the market and even more so a year later. I won't get into too much detail here, but in general by comparing what it offers to other cameras in a similar price bracket (or even lower in the case of the 50D) I feel it's a bit overpriced at $2700 just as the 5D was initially at $3300. Your and others' price-vs-value evaluation will differ, and that's perfectly ok. Some people think the 1DsIII is really worth $8000.
I'm not advocating waiting for the perfect camera, although if you have a camera that suits your needs reasonably well there's nothing wrong with waiting out a few upgrade cycles. I'm just saying that (as always) a camera that seemed an ok fit for a user's needs based on what was available at the time might seem a terrible fit a year later based on what else is available. I think the 5DII in particular had enough compromises in features and functionality to where it is more of a lightning rod for such circumstances than other cameras that fit more neatly into the top-to-bottom hierarchy of Canon cameras. You gotta admit, the 5DII is a bit of an odd bird when you take in the big picture of Canon's full camera lineup. It really breaks up the continuity.
Yohan Pamudji wrote
The strategy was to sucker as many people into buying the 5DII at list price as possible before revealing in the 7D that they were willing to put pro features in a non-1-series body after allYou're welcome! Hence the smiley at the end of my original statement that you chopped off of my quote
Earlier quote
It will really be interesting to see when (if?) the 3D comes whether it will come in at a higher price point or if it will come in at about the 5DII price and push the 5DII down to a more appropriate price.In the real world, there's always something better "coming down the road in a year or two." I don't doubt that in 5 years all of these 2009 cameras...Show more →
"More appropriate" to what it offers vs. the competition, whether that's internally (50D) or externally (A850, D700). I realize there are plenty of photographers who have and will continue to pay $2700 for it. That's their prerogative, and I'm sure plenty of them are happy to do so. Personally I considered it overpriced at launch compared to the market and even more so a year later. I won't get into too much detail here, but in general by comparing what it offers to other cameras in a similar price bracket (or even lower in the case of the 50D) I feel it's a bit overpriced at $2700 just as the 5D was initially at $3300. Your and others' price-vs-value evaluation will differ, and that's perfectly ok. Some people think the 1DsIII is really worth $8000.
I'm not advocating waiting for the perfect camera, although if you have a camera that suits your needs reasonably well there's nothing wrong with waiting out a few upgrade cycles. I'm just saying that (as always) a camera that seemed an ok fit for a user's needs based on what was available at the time might seem a terrible fit a year later based on what else is available. I think the 5DII in particular had enough compromises in features and functionality to where it is more of a lightning rod for such circumstances than other cameras that fit more neatly into the top-to-bottom hierarchy of Canon cameras. You gotta admit, the 5DII is a bit of an odd bird when you take in the big picture of Canon's full camera lineup. It really breaks up the continuity.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:37 AM
p.12 #7Official 7D Thread
cogitech wrote:
This is very bad news for people who prefer manual focus. It is not likely that they have managed to electronically "overlay" a super-precision S-type screen.
F%^k you, Canon.
Again not exactly the wording I'd use
But I agree. The super-matte screen is the best thing since sliced bread for large aperture lenses, and looks like going forward it won't be an option anymore. I'm assuming this LCD overlay tech will see its way into all future cameras 7D and up.
tbartick wrote
No need to purchase after market "focus" screens!! Now just a push of a button will do the trick! Thank you, Canon.F%^k you, Canon.
Again not exactly the wording I'd use
But I agree. The super-matte screen is the best thing since sliced bread for large aperture lenses, and looks like going forward it won't be an option anymore. I'm assuming this LCD overlay tech will see its way into all future cameras 7D and up.Sep 01, 2009 at 10:40 AM
p.12 #8Official 7D Thread
I think there is some marketing sense to that. As features converge, it gets harder to say the *practical* difference between a 5D and a 1 series now (I mean for most people, most of the time). People are actually talking about a 3D as well? So, canon would have the 1 series, the 3 series, the 5 series and the 7 series. Highly doubtful. A 1 series for pros, 7 series for semi/enthusiasts, and XXd series for entry/hobbyist makes inherent sense.
Jim Victory wrote:
My guess is that the 5DMKII is not in stock very long anywhere because Canon is limiting the available stock. I believe Canon will release a 7Ds soon with a FF 24MP sensor and the specs of the 7D.
The 5DMKII will be no more.
Jim
Jim Victory wrote:
RalphJ wrote
"More appropriate" compared to the Sony 850 or the Nikon D3x? The fact that the 5D2 is never in stock for very long anywhere suggests that there are plenty of photographers who don't think it's overpriced, and the poll in thread 809454 suggests pretty strongly that a lot of photographers will continue to prefer the 5D2 to the 7D (I for one have zero interest in swapping my 5D2 for a 7D).The 5DMKII will be no more.
Jim
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:41 AM
p.12 #9Official 7D Thread
cogitech wrote:
F%^k you, Canon.
Yeah, like they're forcing you to buy a 7D, the b@stards...
F%^k you, Canon.
Yeah, like they're forcing you to buy a 7D, the b@stards...
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:43 AM
p.12 #10Official 7D Thread
cogitech wrote:
This is very bad news for people who prefer manual focus. It is not likely that they have managed to electronically "overlay" a super-precision S-type screen.
F%^k you, Canon.
Can't make everyone happy
tbartick wrote
No need to purchase after market "focus" screens!! Now just a push of a button will do the trick! Thank you, Canon.F%^k you, Canon.
Can't make everyone happy
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:45 AM
p.12 #11Official 7D Thread
Tim Speciale wrote:
This doesn't make sense. The 5D and the 7D and the 50D are all distinctly different cameras.
Not everybody has their photographic needs as distinctly and cleanly compartmentalized as some here do. There is nothing inherently wrong with comparing any one camera to another, regardless of how wildly different their features sets may be.
Yohan Pamudji wrote
Well, "stupid" isn't the word I'd use. Imagine this scenario: someone before the 7D announcement needs a camera. He wants something more than the 50D, but the 1-series are out of the question (too expensive, too big, whatever). That "something" could be better image quality, some features (video, viewfinder size, etc.), or both. The 5DII was the only camera in that space, so it was the obvious choice.Not everybody has their photographic needs as distinctly and cleanly compartmentalized as some here do. There is nothing inherently wrong with comparing any one camera to another, regardless of how wildly different their features sets may be.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:45 AM
p.12 #12Official 7D Thread
If you could still use a separate focusing screen in conjunction with the overlay - grid lines on an S screen - that would be nice.
cogitech wrote:
This is very bad news for people who prefer manual focus. It is not likely that they have managed to electronically "overlay" a super-precision S-type screen.
F%^k you, Canon.
cogitech wrote:
tbartick wrote
No need to purchase after market "focus" screens!! Now just a push of a button will do the trick! Thank you, Canon.F%^k you, Canon.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:46 AM
p.12 #13Official 7D Thread
keithreeder wrote:
Sigh... not that moderately priced in the UK - £1699, which converts (at today's exchange rate) to $2755...
Looks like about 17000 Kr here. At todays exchange rates thats about $2800 / £1725. Too rich for me i think - even with all the funky features i can't justify that sort of money on a camera.
Such is life.
Tom_W wrote
I think that Canon just did well. A moderately-priced, feature-packed camera.Looks like about 17000 Kr here. At todays exchange rates thats about $2800 / £1725. Too rich for me i think - even with all the funky features i can't justify that sort of money on a camera.
Such is life.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:47 AM
p.12 #14Official 7D Thread
droopy1592 wrote:
This is very bad news for people who prefer manual focus. It is not likely that they have managed to electronically "overlay" a super-precision S-type screen.
F%^k you, Canon.Can't make everyone happy
Esp. the minuscule amount of photogs who actually shoot using MF more than not...gimme a break. Aside from that, there is no proof that the electronic screens do or don't perform as well as aftermarket screens.
cogitech wrote
tbartick wrote
No need to purchase after market "focus" screens!! Now just a push of a button will do the trick! Thank you, Canon.F%^k you, Canon.
Esp. the minuscule amount of photogs who actually shoot using MF more than not...gimme a break. Aside from that, there is no proof that the electronic screens do or don't perform as well as aftermarket screens.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:48 AM
p.12 #15Official 7D Thread
droopy1592 wrote:
This is very bad news for people who prefer manual focus. It is not likely that they have managed to electronically "overlay" a super-precision S-type screen.
F%^k you, Canon.Can't make everyone happy
How difficult would it have been to make replaceable screens and then throw the overlays onto whatever screen was there? To offer a camera of this class with no precision focusing screen option is either a huge oversight or a blatant crippling of the camera.
cogitech wrote
tbartick wrote
No need to purchase after market "focus" screens!! Now just a push of a button will do the trick! Thank you, Canon.F%^k you, Canon.
How difficult would it have been to make replaceable screens and then throw the overlays onto whatever screen was there? To offer a camera of this class with no precision focusing screen option is either a huge oversight or a blatant crippling of the camera.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:48 AM
p.12 #16Official 7D Thread
M Vers wrote:
Aside from that, there is no proof that the electronic screens do or don't perform as well as aftermarket screens.
Nonsense.
"Electronic" screens? What are you on? It is an overlay.
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 10:52 AM · View previous versions
Aside from that, there is no proof that the electronic screens do or don't perform as well as aftermarket screens.
Nonsense.
"Electronic" screens? What are you on? It is an overlay.
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 10:52 AM · View previous versions
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:50 AM
p.12 #17Official 7D Thread
Geert Koning wrote:
Is this new AF really so much better then the 50D and comparable with the 1D AF ?
It stil has only one center AF point that is high precision at 2.8 it only has 10 extra cross type 5.6 AF points
The 1D3 has 18 cross type high precision at 2.8 and the center point is high precision at 4
I'm beginning to think "no". I've seen Pro AF thrown around a lot these last few days, but the word "professional" doesn't even appear once in the Canon press release. Maybe it originally came from the translated leaked specs?
All Canon says is the 7D AF uses the same "architecture" as the 1-Series. It's probably a lot better than the 50D, but how comparable it might be to the MkIII (or the 1DMkII for that matter) will have to wait for more real-world testing.
There are even subtle differences between the MkII and the MkIII. Most people seem to think that the MkIII focuses much better in low light than the MkII. So maybe the 7D focuses comparable to the MkII, but if you need really low-light AF, it may still disappoint.
It does make sense; is the MkIII or the new MkIV worth more than double the price of the 7D if all you gain is weather sealing, build, and probably better high ISO due to the 1.3 crop? Probably not - the 1-Series still has to have better AF.
Mark
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 10:54 AM · View previous versions
Is this new AF really so much better then the 50D and comparable with the 1D AF ?
It stil has only one center AF point that is high precision at 2.8 it only has 10 extra cross type 5.6 AF points
The 1D3 has 18 cross type high precision at 2.8 and the center point is high precision at 4
I'm beginning to think "no". I've seen Pro AF thrown around a lot these last few days, but the word "professional" doesn't even appear once in the Canon press release. Maybe it originally came from the translated leaked specs?
All Canon says is the 7D AF uses the same "architecture" as the 1-Series. It's probably a lot better than the 50D, but how comparable it might be to the MkIII (or the 1DMkII for that matter) will have to wait for more real-world testing.
There are even subtle differences between the MkII and the MkIII. Most people seem to think that the MkIII focuses much better in low light than the MkII. So maybe the 7D focuses comparable to the MkII, but if you need really low-light AF, it may still disappoint.
It does make sense; is the MkIII or the new MkIV worth more than double the price of the 7D if all you gain is weather sealing, build, and probably better high ISO due to the 1.3 crop? Probably not - the 1-Series still has to have better AF.
Mark
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 10:54 AM · View previous versions
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:51 AM
p.12 #18Official 7D Thread
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
Well, "stupid" isn't the word I'd use.
But, in fact Yohan, that's what you implied in your post, suggesting that many 5D2 owners were "suckered" into buying a product that offered no incremental value (in your eyes). dlphoto was merely quoting you in paraphrase (and disagreeing with you).
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 10:51 AM · View previous versions
dhphoto wrote
If 5DII owners are that stupid then they deserve to feel bad about their purchase. But I don't think many are.But, in fact Yohan, that's what you implied in your post, suggesting that many 5D2 owners were "suckered" into buying a product that offered no incremental value (in your eyes). dlphoto was merely quoting you in paraphrase (and disagreeing with you).
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 10:51 AM · View previous versions
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:51 AM
p.12 #19Official 7D Thread
joekraft wrote:
If you could still use a separate focusing screen in conjunction with the overlay - grid lines on an S screen - that would be nice.
And that's all I'd ask. Simple logic would dictate that they include this option.
Yet another Canon blunder. I know many people who would avoid such a camera for this reason only.
If you could still use a separate focusing screen in conjunction with the overlay - grid lines on an S screen - that would be nice.
And that's all I'd ask. Simple logic would dictate that they include this option.
Yet another Canon blunder. I know many people who would avoid such a camera for this reason only.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:51 AM
p.12 #20Official 7D Thread
cogitech wrote:
How difficult would it have been to make replaceable screens and then throw the overlays onto whatever screen was there? To offer a camera of this class with no precision focusing screen option is either a huge oversight or a blatant crippling of the camera.
Oversight? Blatant crippling? Do you not realize you are in the vast minority? A majority of those who choose to go with the 7D will never use MF, and if they do not enough to need an additional screen.
How difficult would it have been to make replaceable screens and then throw the overlays onto whatever screen was there? To offer a camera of this class with no precision focusing screen option is either a huge oversight or a blatant crippling of the camera.
Oversight? Blatant crippling? Do you not realize you are in the vast minority? A majority of those who choose to go with the 7D will never use MF, and if they do not enough to need an additional screen.
Sep 01, 2009 at 10:53 AM