This thread reminds me of Brittany Spears career, started off awesome (images) then ended up bald and beating on car windows. (critiques) I digress.....
Sergio Mottola wrote:
you're just wrong. its not about you. and because of that you can't really speak an ounce of truth on the matter.
if he didnt like the photos, would he change his myspace and facebook status to say "I have to give a big thanks to Sergio for my senior pictures! sergiomottola.com"
would he have put a gallery of them on his facebook and myspace? would the student have received more than 10 requests for my contact information?
i don't think you are aware that maybe that is the way his face looks. not everyone has a symmetrical smile like you, homie. the connection was definitely there, because he is making natural expressions. i've actually had to turn down hanging out with the guy because he's been wanting to start a friendship, and i typically dont do that with clients. i captured him the way he looks. and this is from someone who spent 3 hours with him, and can compare them with other photos that he has of himself online....Show more →
A bit defensive are we?
Ok I understand the kid is happy, you are happy, but really if you want to take things to the next level you need to also sell to the parents as well because they are usually the ones paying for the pictures. (Provided you are in this for more then just art, which, since your charging is my assumption)
Brian may be happy, but since a lot of your shots don't really show Brian his parents may not be happy. They may be showing other parents and saying "we hired this kid and didn't actually get a lot of shots of Brian". Word of mouth is extremely powerful and you want whoever sees your pictures to be thrilled with them. Your style is nice, but no connection with the viewer in a lot of these is what is really hurting the set.
prof_fate wrote:
I am not familiar with your work so I can't say this is trademark or not. As senior portraits go these are not very good. Nice images, great for a model, etc, but not what sells to seniors.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here Prof.
I graduated High school in 2003, and seriously, if there was a photog. like
sergio around...I would've pulled all the strings to book him. Kids don't care
about looking "grown up" or accomplished....they're kids. They want some
cool freakin pictures that their friends will be gaga over. (I can't believe I said
gaga) Kids this age are still really concerned about how they appear...but not
how they appear to grown ups...how they appear to friends. Gotta be the cool
kid.
I personally HATE traditional senior portraits...so boring. I believe that sergio
is on the way to creating an entirely new trend. Portraits where the feet
are in focus, but nothing else (I'm kidding ... )
OH MY GOD. I just read the last few pages of the thread....
Tony. Why the heck does it matter if he has a biz license? Are you the IRS?
You checking up on his taxes? Seriously, you asking that question was a really
infantile way of sidestepping the fact that sergio is pulling in business...and you
can't understand how.
Didn't read all the thread, not going to make specific comments on any of the pictures. While I will agree, every senior wants a "different" look, I'm of the opinion that because every person is different, you can tailor your photography to specific things that are different about each client.
I didn't like any of these shots, and the quasi homeless kid shot from a Senior Picture standpoint was garbage. You're supposed to emphasize the senior and you can't even see him. Maybe the kids at your high school like you, but I foresee changes if you want to succeed in the world.
brucem48 wrote:
Let me get this straight.. A parent and grandma would order 24 wallets and 2 5x7's of their sons Senior picture that you cannot tell who he is and half his body is missing and their is a stray person in the picture also..frame it and put it in their living room and call it Brians Senior pictures. Is this what some people are saying? How does a Seniors mom send those wallets and include them in his graduation announcements to friends and family. Last time I checked the Senior is supposed to be included in the portrait. Or is that old fashion and boring portraiture. I dont think the style is effective nor the execution of the style is well done....Show more →
Sergio Mottola wrote:
you're just wrong. its not about you. and because of that you can't really speak an ounce of truth on the matter.
if he didnt like the photos, would he change his myspace and facebook status to say "I have to give a big thanks to Sergio for my senior pictures! sergiomottola.com"
would he have put a gallery of them on his facebook and myspace? would the student have received more than 10 requests for my contact information?
i don't think you are aware that maybe that is the way his face looks. not everyone has a symmetrical smile like you, homie. the connection was definitely there, because he is making natural expressions. i've actually had to turn down hanging out with the guy because he's been wanting to start a friendship, and i typically dont do that with clients. i captured him the way he looks. and this is from someone who spent 3 hours with him, and can compare them with other photos that he has of himself online....Show more →
This seals the deal. He's just an 18 year old "punk" know it all kid. Give the young grasshopper time.
Well, Serg, I made it through the whole thread, it was definitely worth it, good points all around. Yes, some harshness, but mostly people just sharing their perspective.
I am in my 50's and do not do a lot of seniors, but reading through this thread has made me feel that I need to update the look of my work in this area. I'm in Oregon, and I totally see your point about the young people here wanting more imaginative, fresh images.
Not your best (IMHO) and not my style but if it suits the clients and you have enough of them........
But I wonder whether they will be as pleased when they are older? Some styles date more than others - the traditional "smile in front of a tree or painted clouds background" and this "freakin cool" style perhaps will date more than somewhere in between.
Perhaps the only advantage of being old is that you can were young once - and then got old and can remember how your opinions changed over time.
(I'm old - but if I were getting married again I'd want Sam and Hoffer to take the shots. . I feel that their work would still stand out without their P&S skills - which enhance rather than create their images). I am a huge fan of Photoshop and not in any way critical of its use - but the original shot should, I feel, work well without it.
I've been thinking about the images here. I've also visited the web site.
I have some thoughts on the "homeless" image. Never in a million years would I have thought to make that image. That's one reason I like it. I suspect more thought by both Sergio and his subject went into that photo than many think. It's a bold and gutsy photo to have the subject so OOF and far back that he's unrecognizable. I don't see this image hanging on the wall as "the Senior photo", but I can see it as part of a narrative. Also, from what Sergio told us of the situation, the subject is far more connected to the homeless guy than the Senior in the traditional photo is connected to the tree they are propped up against.
I have a college degree from a school which taught me to take pretty, saleable photos. They taught me all the rules, many of which I see Sergio breaking in the photos on his web site. I don't want him to be taught "the rules". If he's ever caught with a book from Frank Cricchio or Monte Zucker he should be dope slapped. Some of his work does nothing for me, but I saw several images I'd be proud to have in my portfolio.
This is the perfect time for Sergio to be exploring. He's young and I imagine he has few of the obligations us old farts are saddled with. Press on Sergio!
Finally, I'm reminded of an exchange a reporter had with Elton John as he left a nightclub after a Neil Young concert. The reporter asked, "Do you really like that stuff?" To which Sir Elton replied: "Absolutely! It's just the kind of music that will pi$$ off the Eagles!"
jprezant wrote:
OH MY GOD. I just read the last few pages of the thread....
Tony. Why the heck does it matter if he has a biz license? Are you the IRS?
You checking up on his taxes? Seriously, you asking that question was a really
infantile way of sidestepping the fact that sergio is pulling in business...and you
can't understand how.
(This was not a paid statement)
jprezant.......
i'm curious.....this kid talks a big game, so was wondering if he was registered, its not infantile by all means. you do realize many so called "professional photographers" are pulling in business without a license or paying any taxes. i can give a rats asss what business he pulls in.
its a legit question, just like the question i asked earlier about what prints were bought.
Can a mod lock this thread? Sure, I can just ignore it but this thread has gone far past the purpose of constructive crit. There is no need to pry into the business side of anyone on this thread. The last post topped the cake. Thanks all.
jprezant wrote:
I'm going to have to disagree with you here Prof.
I graduated High school in 2003, and seriously, if there was a photog. like
sergio around...I would've pulled all the strings to book him. Kids don't care
about looking "grown up" or accomplished....they're kids. They want some
cool freakin pictures that their friends will be gaga over. (I can't believe I said
gaga) Kids this age are still really concerned about how they appear...but not
how they appear to grown ups...how they appear to friends. Gotta be the cool
kid.
I personally HATE traditional senior portraits...so boring. I believe that sergio
is on the way to creating an entirely new trend. Portraits where the feet
are in focus, but nothing else (I'm kidding ... )...Show more →
you are kidding me right as a parent if i paid $1500 for a senior portrait and have photos of a homeless person or oof shots of their foot, i'd be PISSED.
FYI, this is so called trend is nothing new.....the PP are actions/filters you can buy. This trend you call it, is glamorized snap shots of people. I see the same type of images on myspace taken with kids using their PS or cell phones. (i do have two teens in my house and sponsored a cheer squad for a high school)
as i stated before.....Pro Fates initial comment was harsh, but on target,,its this kids reaction that pulled me in....and since i'm his "homie" then i should be able to make such comments
One of the points that's been brought up in the thread is that just because somebody is older, than don't know what a client wants that's a younger age.
1: He's looking up-hill (don't know if that's the intended point, his ankles don't appear to be bent upwards, so it looks like this tilt was intentional) and it's distracting. He's too small in the frame. How did you emphasize your subject?
2 and 3(assuming this is what they would be numbered, but it's the 1st side by side): These look like good snapshots of a young man.
4: who were you working for? The man sitting, or the out of focus client? If it's for the sitting man, then this is a cool shot but it does nothing for the client in the photo. Again, how did you emphasize your subject?
5: 5 is my favorite, but two nit picks would be the shirt, and lack of modeling of the face. Good use of the back-sun for a hair/rim light but hot spots take away from his face, and lead you to the shoulder.
6 and 7, I don't really have too much of an opinion on. If anything, too much headroom at the top of the portrait, however at the same time I could see this being hung-modern day.
8: my second favorite from the set, or maybe my 1st since I don't really have any nit picks.
9:A focused pile of gravel with a half cut off subject? How did you emphasize your subject?
10: Is good, but I'm not diggin' the processing, but that's totally a subjective thing.
11:Pose looks funky, shoulder his too high, processing and he's not large enough in the frame. The number 12 shot, if more was in focus I think (personally subjective).
I'm not trying to knock you in any way, shape or form. I think telling an experienced photographer offering you sound advice in other words that he's old and doesn't know what he's talking about is a bit foolish. For what it's worth, I'm 26 and not a professional but I take a lot of portraits for people. I'm still learning, so what I say is with that mind-set.
Sometimes, people think that just because the pictures came from a "big" camera that they are "good" or a "professional" photographer. I get it all of the time when I have my cameras out. People say "you must be a pro"...why? I can't just be a hobbyist?
Live and learn, if the clients bought, that's what's good. I'd be darned though if I let a bunch of teens from myspace dictate my style. Go to photo bucket and type in "emo" and see the "photos" that people are happy to have themselves.
This thread really leaves a bad taste in my mouth...can you all please discuss this over on dpreview and leave fredmiranda for the useful stuff?!?!?!?
Seriously though...I think all the points have been made and noone is going to change his or her stance. I see nothing but arguing going on. How does this help any of us with our craft?
as a parent if i paid $1500 for a senior portrait and have photos of a homeless person or oof shots of their foot, i'd be PISSED.