this thread is a perfect example of clash bw the old and the new.
sergios style is his own, i agree its not his strongest set but im still a big fan.
however, i am by no means an expert and i understand taste is of course subjective but pro_fates pix just plain suck, no ifs or buts about it. the girl on the crane with some kind of stalk hangin from her mouth is laughable. if u post these to support ur argument and to lend some credibility to urself as an artist/photographer, then u have FAILED!
jeremy_clay wrote:
I say this with all sincerity, but if you took more time with the art and skill of photography, your top wedding package wouldn't be priced so inexpensively - a stronger photographer who gives a *#&$ about his work and produces quality stuff will do your package below for $6k, $7k at least. He'd do less work, spend less time, and make equal to more money. Who's the fool?
You need to worry more about you than me.
You don't know my market and I don't know his. The average wedding venue here, with open bar, cake centerpieces - everything but the music, is $30 a plate. And the average wedding size is 150 people. Add it up. $4500 for the reception. You can have a wedding here for $12,000 easy. So i'm 20% of the cost of a wedding. Damn, I'm good by that yardstick!
This is a rather rural area. They're not gonna spend $6000 on a photography package. I know this. I know the photogs that get $4000-5000 for a shoot and burn wedding (can you call high end S&B?) and NONE work in my county.They all travel and commute.
I can give them art, sure, but will they give me money?
The B&G picked the tractor as their background. He restored it and it's his pride and joy. They want a large pano style canvas of it too. and she's a part time photographer studying photography in school. http://www.pbase.com/cpphotography/image/109179625.jpg
This is my market.
BTW, 40% + of brides around here are amazed at seeing a flush mount album and 70% have never seen a CTB.
BKphotography wrote:
prof_fate, I know you have had a lot of people giving you a hard time in this post and I'm kinda sorry to add to this, but...
the photos posted above are horrendous. One of them even seems to have been shot in an open sewer.
Yeah, a drainage ditch at the county fair.
And my sales have doubled from 07 to 08 and are up 125% so far this year over last.
Your opinion of my work has be crying all the way to the bank
I allow the client some input into the creative process. I don't assume a holier than thou attitude that I know best and that they have no artistic taste and will buy what I feel like shooting today.
Sergio Mottola wrote:
the client is paying for what i offer, dummy.
If you can get clients to pay for pictures of people they don't know, you got some dumb clientele in your area, or perhaps indeed you have 'mastered the art of sales'
Why shoot any more pictures then? This bum shot could sell to every future senior since the subject of the photo can't be distinguished from the background.
Prof... really your prove no point and the more pictures you put up the more you prove that Serg should carry on his way cause they certainly aren't influencing him...
And a side note about your sports analogy... only the best... the standouts make it to the top levels.
He stands out. He clearly has a passion for what he does. All I see you posting talk about money money money money. The deal is its pretty clear through your imagery you lack the passion he has. And people that are purely in this for money but lack the passion... well they won't ever be stand outs.
Where does your eye go? To the guy in the foreground, right? Is he Brian? No. Then why in hell is he the focus of this image?
The photographer failed to get across a "portrait of brian" . You can call it art, but that's not the point. The client is paying for a senior portrait of themselves, not street candids of strangers and bums.
Now if you can get paid to take candid street photos of strangers and bums more power to ya!
Photog: Wow awesome, lets do something different. See that cool bum...could you please go sit by him? Client: Wait, but...you want me to sit by him? Photog: Sure, sure...it'll be cool. It's what kids our age do, isn't it? Client: Well, OK. If you say so. Are you sure it'll look good? Photog: Absolutely! Do you know that I just booked a destination wedding? How could I be wrong? just trust me. Client: OK, I've sat next to him.. Photog: You know what...the bum actually looks better than you, so could you please run out there behind him? Don't worry you'll still be in the picture. Client: Ok, thanks!!! I can't wait to see my smile in this shot! Should I smile? Photog: Sure, just stand very still, I want to freeze any and all motion and then post it on FM.
Michael Vick stood out. A-Rod stood out. Plaxico Burress stood out. They ignored the rules and didn't stay at the top.
They're the exception to rule I hear you say? Making a long term living in photography is easier if you know posing, lighting, composition. Can one find "success" without that knowledge? Sure, but that's the exception to the rule.
In America success = money. It's how we keep score. If you think otherwise you're a fool (or don't have any money).
If it wasn't about money then why would anyone want to work a lousy job?
I've been brought out as apparently now knowing art and that art is the be-all end-all of photography. I disagree.
I say if people buy you're images then you are successful. Want to be more successful? Then sell more images. How do you do that? Look at what's selling in your area and do that.
Notice that ART has nothing to do with it at all. Art is very much in the eye of the beholder - as many comments in this thread confirm. "Serge has style, it's art, but I'd not buy it".
Will he be successful as an artist? Or will he have to get a day job to pay the bills?
Oh, most of my clients are under 18 and asking them to get naked might have repurcussions. I've got a 14 year old coming today, a 17 year old and 15 year old tomorrow and a 6 month old on saturday.
My assistant shoots some of the 'model' thing and the guy that suggested I shoot weddings is a garage glamour regular. I've not had the luxury of women dropping their clothes in my studio, but then I'd have to expain to my wife where al the photos of naked women on my computer came from.
Pro_fate, you are confusing a local business with every other type of photography. There are other ways to earn money from photography, other than taking hackneyed shots of spotty teens.
prof_fate wrote:
You don't need to feel the connection - mom does - she's got the wallet
Secondly, the kid has to like them.
thirdly, my market area has to like them.
Who says it has to be all about art anyway?
I had fun, the girls had fun. I was talked about. It brought in business. It made money.
Is there something inherently wrong about taking photos that make money?
If I knew how to take a good photograph, I'd do it every time. --Robert Doisneau
Senior Pictures should make them feel grown up, important, independent, persons of substance, showcase their accomplishments, record them (favorably) at this point in their lives. - prof-fate
Pro fate..Love your senior shots.. Good quality in post and posing. Check out this other guys tired Dubai shots they look like drivers licsense photos.
