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Archive 2008 · Canon 5DII rumors thread

  
 
brainiac
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p.40 #1 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


Yohan Pamudji wrote:
Do you leave the hoods off your lenses...


Yes, because incidental flare is seldom a problem when you are shooting with on-camera flash. You are a photographer. You should know that.

> and never shoot at wider angles?

Canon makes a wide variety of wideangle lenses which work fine with a built-in flash. There are the 20mm, 24mm f2.8, 28mm f2.8, 28mm f1.8, 35mm f2. Other lens makers like Sigma also make a wide variety of compact wideangles. Built-in flash also works fine with most Canon standard and long lenses. Canon's macro flash unit does not work with a wide range of Canon lenses. Canon's macro lenses do not work well at close range with the 580 flash. When shooting with a 500 f4, Canon's 580 flashes aren't powerful enough to illuminate distant subjects. Clearly they should scrap all those products.

> Because no camera I've ever used with a pop-up flash has been able to clear the wider angles (casts a curved shadow toward the bottom of the pic), especially with a lens hood on. I HAVE TO use a flash with more vertical clearance to fix that.

No - you could use a more compact lens, since you don't need a wide aperture when using flash.

> And as far as shadows caused by a flash that is some distance away from the lens, that's actually much more attractive and interesting than flash straight-on from the lens axis that wash out all depth. Shadows aren't your enemies--they're your friends. You just have to know how to control them. Shadows too harsh? Use a flash modifier to soften them.

Again - this comes down to your personal preference. None of the light modifiers I have used make any difference, apart from the micro-apollo, but even that has little effect at 10 feet. When you go back stage at the fashion shows you notice many beauty photographers have constructed their own weird cardboard light-spreading devices which are huge, fragile, and cumbersome, because none of the commercially available diffusers makes the slightest difference. Bounce is unreliable, and therefore unprofessional. Modifiers like omni-bounce massively drain batteries, increase recycle times, and do practically nothing to ensure that incident light subtends a significatly larger angle at the incident surface (face), so they fail, completely, to modify the light quality in a beneficial way. The flash unit remains, to all intents and purposes, a point source of light. As regards shadow widths, when a woman is wearing a black dress, and you need to shoot portrait orientation, the shadows from a 580 EX add two stone of weight, whereas a pop-up flash only adds a stone. In portrait orientation if your flash is on the left while the subject is facing slightly to the right, a thick black shadow is cast by the nose, which consequently looks bigger, and more 3D. Depending on your subject, that can be unflattering. Again, this effect is halved when using a pop-up flash. If there are multiple people in the picture, all facing in slightly different directions, which is common, then at least some of them will have ugly black shadows across their faces. Bulb to lens-axis distance is the crucial factor in attenuating this ugly effect. Many fashion and beauty photographers use a variety of ring flash arrangements, cumbersome though they are, to get around this problem.

> I won't go so far as to say that everybody would be better off without the pop-up flash, but I don't find much utility in it

...so nobody else should be allowed it?

> ...(and also admittedly look rather skeptically at pros who do, especially for work. Personal stuff is up to you, but paid work should look better than what a pop-up flash can deliver.)

That depends what the paid work is. If you shoot social for magazines, or weddings, then you don't have time to set up studio lights for every shot. You have to move around, and shoot with no delays. Be as skeptical as you like, but many pros have to shoot this kind of stuff often. Sure, we're not artists like you, but we have to pay the bills and will use whatever equipment does the best job. Right now the D700 has a crucial advantage in close range social stuff: slighter shadows.

>...and would prefer Canon put the cost of the flash toward something more useful to me like weather sealing and/or 100% viewfinder. That's the downside--Canon are very, very price-conscious in deciding which features to put in, so if removing a pop-up flash makes room for weather sealing gaskets I'm all for it.

Canon's prices have nothing to do with the cost of supplying a weather-proof pop-up flash. The 1000D, D700 and D300 illustrate that. The fact that the cost of a 5D in Europe is about twice its US cost should tell you that what you are saying about Canon pricing is tosh. Canon, like every other manufacturer, sets its prices to what the market will bear. Manufacture of the goods themselves costs a small fraction of the retail price. The $670 1000D illustrates that the cost of pop-up flash, contrary to what you say about Canon's feature/price sensitivity, is negligible. Canon could include a weather sealed pop-up flash and a 100% viewfinder at little or no increase of the retail price, but probably won't because a significant number of the photographers who buy this camera are more concerned about posing as professionals than getting the most out of useful features.

Nikon's D700 and D300 render this argument obsolete. Serious weather-sealed affordable cameras can have built-in flash, and there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't except for a strange kind of snobbery amongst a certain class of photographer, who is worried about not looking professional, because she wrongly fears that somebody will notice and care that her camera has a feature that she does not use.

Edited on Sep 06, 2008 at 07:27 AM



Sep 06, 2008 at 06:57 AM
Jeff
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p.40 #2 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


gazzajagman wrote:
After waiting for nearly a year for the 5DII replacement, I have been dissapointed so many times. I almost don't belive it's coming!

I am so excited and glad for the wait. The current specs look as awsome and unbelivable as the original 5d's specs looked 3 years ago.

The 5D was a legend (although a slow burn sucess) and I'm sure that it's replcament is going to have a simular impact. It's simply going to be the camera that we all aspire to own and use. It's going to redefine "fine art" and high quality photography. 21mp will be the
...Show more

Hook, line and sinker!




Sep 06, 2008 at 07:44 AM
mfurman
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p.40 #3 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


To brainiac:

I have been reading about your preferences for in body flash quite a bit recently and I started to wonder what camera you use. Neither 1D series nor 5D has a built in flash. Just curious.



Sep 06, 2008 at 08:07 AM
Kotasd
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p.40 #4 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


A good friend of mine, was recently in a meeting, and after signing paperwork saying he wouldn't talk about it.... He talked about it... and apparently Canon is buying Nikon AND Honda, Toyota, and Nissan... Well that's what he claims anyway...


Sep 06, 2008 at 08:12 AM
Kagetsu
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p.40 #5 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


Just quickly, the moon site hasn't updated the image at all. Just checked it against, original. Identical. ^_^


Sep 06, 2008 at 08:21 AM
ulrikft
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p.40 #6 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


Brainiac:

Are you stating that: Bounce flash is useless, All flash diffusers are useless and that off camera flash in general is useles... AND expect to be taken serious? Or are you still trying to make some point?



Sep 06, 2008 at 08:32 AM
patriot
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p.40 #7 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


... There may need to be extra "bridge jumper" brigades sent out the day Canon decides to announce this ...



Jeff wrote:
Hook, line and sinker!





Sep 06, 2008 at 08:33 AM
bobbytan
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p.40 #8 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


Of course he's not suggesting that. A built-in flash can never compete with an off-camera and even on-camera flash .... but it DOES have it's uses when you don't have an external flash with you. I don't take a flash with me 90% of the time and 10% of the time I would be kicking myself for not having any kind of flash. When you want to travel really light, even the smallest flash is too bulky and heavy and inconvenient. A built-in flash works for near-distance fill, helps to add a catch light to a subject's eyes, and will trigger off-camera flash units IF it has a wireless triggering device (like almost all Nikon bodies) built into the unit - so you don't have to spend another $200+ just for a transmitter and having to carry another piece of shxx.

ulrikft wrote:
Brainiac:

Are you stating that: Bounce flash is useless, All flash diffusers are useless and that off camera flash in general is useles... AND expect to be taken serious? Or are you still trying to make some point?



Edited on Sep 06, 2008 at 09:04 AM



Sep 06, 2008 at 09:02 AM
dimitris77
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p.40 #9 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


globalkiwi wrote:
Are you kidding? As soon as it's released there's a whole new growth industry in comparisons, photos of walls, kittens, pretty & not so pretty girls, gripes, complaints, laments about what was left off, comparisons (favorable & con) with Nikon, Sony, player to be named later, speculations as to price deflation, impact on prices of other models, speculation on responses from competitors (pro & con), assessments & reassessments of the wisdom of the upgrade from 5D, nostalgia trips related to the 5D, fierce defense of 5D's continued relevance, comparisons to the relative advances vis a vis the 50D ...
I could
...Show more

Best post ever.



Sep 06, 2008 at 09:33 AM
helimat
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p.40 #10 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


One thing I am hoping for the new 5D is that the grip off of my original 5D will fit it.
I think Canon is in cahoots with companies like RRS...



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Marcus Watts
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p.40 #11 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


dimitris77 wrote:
Best post ever.


Wow! that was a revelation to you?



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:06 AM
RDKirk
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p.40 #12 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


After waiting for nearly a year for the 5DII replacement, I have been dissapointed so many times. I almost don't belive it's coming!

Why? The only evidence we had for camera renewals was that Canon updated consumer models at 18 months and professional models at 3 years.

Canon created a new category for the 5D. They called it their "Premium" category. So we didn't know whether it would be updated by the consumer schedule, the professional schedule--or whether it woudn't be a one-off and never updated at all.

There was no reason to believe it would be updated in less than 18 months, so there was no point to being anxious before then.

When the 18-month point rolled past, the logical assumption was that it would be updated at the 36-month point...there was no evidence to support any other assumption. So there was no point to being anxious until the 36-month point.

Which is now. Of course, we still don't really know if Canon is going to release an updated 5D or something else entirely.

But there was never any evidence to presume the 5D would be updated at any points other than 18 months or 36 months.



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:06 AM
ulrikft
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p.40 #13 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


bobbytan wrote:
Of course he's not suggesting that. A built-in flash can never compete with an off-camera and even on-camera flash .... but it DOES have it's uses when you don't have an external flash with you. I don't take a flash with me 90% of the time and 10% of the time I would be kicking myself for not having any kind of flash. When you want to travel really light, even the smallest flash is too bulky and heavy and inconvenient. A built-in flash works for near-distance fill, helps to add a catch light to a subject's eyes, and will
...Show more


Well it seems like he is saying "i prefer the results from my builtin flash over the ones from off-camera flash". I suspect that not only many amateur strobists, but also pro strobists will disagree a tiny bit with that?



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Rubber Soul
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p.40 #14 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


RDKirk wrote:
Of course, we still don't really know if Canon is going to release an updated 5D or something else entirely.



Have you seen those teaser ads Canon has been running in all its international websites? The mystery camera whose silhouette is remarkably similar to a 5D? Well, someone clever grabbed the advertisement files off of Canon Japan's website. It turns out Canon themselves had labeled these files with the suffix "...._5d2.jpg".






Edited by Rubber Soul on Sep 06, 2008 at 03:22 PM GMT

Edited on Sep 06, 2008 at 10:22 AM



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:21 AM
lexvo
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p.40 #15 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


Cableaddict wrote:
I predict that the 5D will become the first DSLR classic.


IMO, the 1D (mark 1) is already a DSLR classic




Sep 06, 2008 at 10:21 AM
David Baldwin
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p.40 #16 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


I want a 5D Mk2 principally for extreme low light work. Many people have suggested that the new 50D shows us what performance/features the 5D replacement might have.

On FM there are now example shots showing some samples of the high ISO performance of the 50D:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/684599/0

Personally I find the banding at high ISOs upsetting. Is it likely that the 5D replacement will have better control of banding issues than the 50D?



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:28 AM
dcmiller
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p.40 #17 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


So the 50D goes to ISO128000. The 5DII needs to go to 256000 if it wants to be "in the ballpark" with the D3/D700. This would seem to be not too difficult, considering the tiny 50D camera pixels. Canon's looking at Nikons ISO performance, and Sony's high mp.

Canon would seem to be in pretty good shape with the 5DII. The numbers roughly indicate that with around 20mp Canon can get to ISO256000 (based on the 50D design)

It's likely that Canon is confident with the upcoming release. Nikon did get to ISO 256000 with large photosites and a lot of smoothing. Canon could go to ISO 512000 with pixel binning - maybe a 6.5 mp file size. Plenty big enough for pj and most event shooting.



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:31 AM
David Baldwin
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p.40 #18 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


dcmiller

Thank you for your reply. I would certainly be happy to pixel bin down to a much smaller file size in return for good low light performance.



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:40 AM
tayo
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p.40 #19 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


There's a 0 too much in your ISO numbers.


Sep 06, 2008 at 10:45 AM
helimat
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p.40 #20 · Canon 5DII rumors thread


tayo wrote:
There's a 0 too much in your ISO numbers.


Wishful thinking?



Sep 06, 2008 at 10:47 AM
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