Even with unlimited funding, there is no way to get a 5DmkII nor a 1DIII N. These camera are only rumorware for now.
Flav wrote:
After researching what Canon and Nikon have to offer in Professional grade, semi-pro, pro-sumer, advanced amateur, amateur... . - it's mostly a matter of taste really.
If i had unlimited funding i would get a 5D mkII, D3, 1DsIII, 1DIII N, and a d90 to shoot movies + of course an arsenal of lenses (canon being easier to find...) (n:14-24, 24-70,70-200,300 c:16-35,24-70,70-200is,300is,24,35,50,85,135)
Fred Relaix wrote:
Well, here are a few :
Full weather sealing
51 points pro-AF (15 cross type) and 3D tracking
3" Hi rez LCD
custom auto-ISO
+/- 5 exposure compensation and 9-frames bracketing
optional grid
:-)
correction. Its only:
- Full weather sealing (I woul like to have)
- 51 points pro-AF (15 cross type) and 3D tracking (dont need that, just one center AF,
that matches)
- custom auto-ISO (If the 50Ds new autoiso works, it would be enough for me, too)
- +/- 5 exposure compensation and 9-frames bracketing (I do not need either)
Missing:
- resolution
- maybe IQ, we have to find out
So in my case I really do not think about a brand change to get full sealing for additional € 300 and accept lower res (and shurly not IQ). And again. Concerning two of my three standard lenses, there is no equivalent, Nikon offers even at higher bargain.
I never found the D300 interesting in any way. I thought about purchasing a D700 (because of FF and high Iso). That Idea has become air again three days ago. Canon is not only back in race, but much more. They are leading again.
D90 is no competitor against 50D and never was planed as such. It was designed to have a competitor against 450D (I do not know what kind of "rebell" its called in US). Its only advantage - even its a brandnew product - I can see is video, that will find a huge number of customers I think. Not me. I would not pay twice the price to get that. In a year it will be a feature of ALL consumer/prosumer DSLRs.
Fred, i'm just saying... i would use each camera for different purposes. the 1D series is still the best camera for sports, no matter how much nikonians may flaunt. And the best camera for PJ is D3/D700, better than the 40D because of ff and ruggedness, and better than the 1D because of FF and higher iso capabilities, better than 5D for higher fps, response (that's the only thing i don't like about my 5D - response time, it takes ages to take a picture compared to a D300) and ruggedness; and in PJ, 12800 from a D3 is usable.
I'll have one ASAP and work it hard during two week vacation time off period and if it's not to my liking it will go back before the return period.
I have two 40D's and the AF across several lenses and two bodies is creating havoc for me and Canon customer service. I cannot afford the high end bodies with AF fine tuning so I'll give the 50D a whirl.
If it has as good or better IQ and the AF tuning really works she will be a keeper and someone will get a deal on a couple 40D's.
Gimmickry apart, the D90 is not even a real competitor for the 40D much less the 50D.
Sorry Keith, but I'm going with AJ on this one. Other than a new, and unproven sensor, in what way does the 50d compete with the D300? The only way I can think of at this point is on price as they both can be purchased for under $2k US. I have no idea what the 50d will be like in the real world, but on paper nothing else about the 50d is special IMO....
Again, the sensor may prove to be the best thing about it, but what else? Perhaps you can enlighten me on this....
PS - and PLEASE don't mention lens AF tuning... Yukkk....Canon should just improve their lens QA out the door if there's so much variability it doesn't work....
Flav wrote:
Fred, i'm just saying... i would use each camera for different purposes. the 1D series is still the best camera for sports, no matter how much nikonians may flaunt. And the best camera for PJ is D3/D700, better than the 40D because of ff and ruggedness, and better than the 1D because of FF and higher iso capabilities, better than 5D for higher fps, response (that's the only thing i don't like about my 5D - response time, it takes ages to take a picture compared to a D300) and ruggedness; and in PJ, 12800 from a D3 is usable....Show more →
+1, with caveats...
1) I'll take the 5d IQ over ANY Nikon camera at low ISO, but the difference isn't great.
2) Those investing in Nikon without waiting to see if Canon actually can produce a decent camera like they did many years ago will be saddened they left for a low resolution 12MP camera..
keithreeder wrote: Only on paper. In Real World use, it does nothing that the 40D doesn't do at least as well.
Nothing.
I invite you to find any actual proof that the D300 is a better camera in use, Dan - but I'll be waiting a long time.
Edited by keithreeder on Aug 29, 2008 at 10:45 AM GMT
Well, here's a comparison of both. These are the differences, anything omitted is more or less the same on both:
D300 vs 50D
MP: 12 vs 15
AF: 51 vs 9
AF cross sensors: 15 vs 9 (although that's a bit misleading due to the spread of the 15)
AF EV range: -1 to +19 vs -0.5 to +18
AF assists: proper lamp vs disco strobe
Spot meter: 2% vs 3.8%
EV compensation: 5 stops vs 2 stops
ISO: 100-6400 vs 100-12800
VF: 100% @ 0.94x vs 95% @ 0.95x
fps: 6 vs 6.3 or 8 vs 6.3 if you have the D300 grip
JPG buffer: 100 shots vs 90 shots
Flash commander mode: yes vs no
Weight: 900g vs 820g
So, in real world use, take your pick. What remains to be seen is how good the 50D AF and how clean the high ISO is. In real word use, I'd take the 100% VF and flash commander mode. If these were not a concern then I'd just chose purely on how it sits on my hand. I'm pretty sure they both will give excellent results, especially of furry toys or people's living rooms which seems to be the latest trend in proving the capabilities of new photohgraphic equipment.
Again, the sensor may prove to be the best thing about it, but what else? Perhaps you can enlighten me on this....
PS - and PLEASE don't mention lens AF tuning... Yukkk....Canon should just improve their lens QA out the door if there's so much variability it doesn't work....
Lets see, how image quality is and discuss that later. The D300s did not convince me to buy it. And in my case, IQ is what I need most.
Concerning AF tuning:
All companies have many problems with their lenses. A friend of mine and pro photographer using Nikon since years purchased a 70-200 2.8 (VR?) and gave it back after 2 weeks, because Nikon could not fix the focus problems with his D200. He was amazed about my 70-200 4.0 L IS in IQ and performance after he tested it on my 30D body.
Digital photographie changed the viewable IQ much.
Agreed, but the original post was about 40D vs D300.
From the swedish bird photograph that tested the 50D, the AF is outstanding.
panos.v wrote:
Well, here's a comparison of both. These are the differences, anything omitted is more or less the same on both:
D300 vs 50D
MP: 12 vs 15
AF: 51 vs 9
AF cross sensors: 15 vs 9 (although that's a bit misleading due to the spread of the 15)
AF EV range: -1 to +19 vs -0.5 to +18
AF assists: proper lamp vs disco strobe
Spot meter: 2% vs 3.8%
EV compensation: 5 stops vs 2 stops
ISO: 100-6400 vs 100-12800
VF: 100% @ 0.94x vs 95% @ 0.95x
fps: 6 vs 6.3 or 8 vs 6.3 if you have the D300 grip
JPG buffer: 100 shots vs 90 shots
Flash commander mode: yes vs no
Weight: 900g vs 820g
So, in real world use, take your pick. What remains to be seen is how good the 50D AF and how clean the high ISO is. In real word use, I'd take the 100% VF and flash commander mode. If these were not a concern then I'd just chose purely on how it sits on my hand. I'm pretty sure they both will give excellent results, especially of furry toys or people's living rooms which seems to be the latest trend in proving the capabilities of new photohgraphic equipment. ...Show more →
Alistair Watson wrote:
I have a feeling Brainiac might have something to say about this!
I thoroughly agree with Flav. And because you can get jpegs straight out of the camera at that speed, with Nikon's excellent chroma noise reduction it's a no-brainer. Canon currently can not compete with that. If you're a PJ.
However, the situation looks likely to be different in a few weeks. Canon is adding iso 12800 and noise-reduction so that Canon-using PJ's can compete, and frankly, probably surpass their D3-toting brethren when it comes to usable ouput at very high ISO.
One reason why I didn't really contemplate switching was that I thought the D3 was going to wake a sleeping giant. The 450D and 50D are the first signs that this may be happening. In a month we will know.
panos.v wrote:
MP: 12 vs 15
AF: 51 vs 9
AF cross sensors: 15 vs 9 (although that's a bit misleading due to the spread of the 15)
AF EV range: -1 to +19 vs -0.5 to +18
AF assists: proper lamp vs disco strobe
Spot meter: 2% vs 3.8%
EV compensation: 5 stops vs 2 stops
ISO: 100-6400 vs 100-12800
VF: 100% @ 0.94x vs 95% @ 0.95x
fps: 6 vs 6.3 or 8 vs 6.3 if you have the D300 grip
JPG buffer: 100 shots vs 90 shots
Flash commander mode: yes vs no
Weight: 900g vs 820g
So, in real world use, take your pick. What remains to be seen is how good the 50D AF and how clean the high ISO is. In real word use, I'd take the 100% VF and flash commander mode. If these were not a concern then I'd just chose purely on how it sits on my hand. I'm pretty sure they both will give excellent results, especially of furry toys or people's living rooms which seems to be the latest trend in proving the capabilities of new photohgraphic equipment. ...Show more →
Kinda left of a few features that favor the 50D, didn't you?
And that little thing that the IQ will be better on 50D. I kinda like having the best IQ myself, but that just me........
Competitors always have better specs and lower price than the market leader. It doesn't make a KIA a replacement for a BMW.
(Removing Canon fanboy beanie and getting off the soapbox)
abam wrote:
interesting that nikon and microsoft just signed some cross-licensing paperwork thing (to avoid vagueness), which will allow them to share technology.
this competition thing is just going to heat up, and we the consumers are going to benefit from it.
neatness.
It's just going to be jpgII or some other important but boring file thing. Or maybe Bill gates pasty skin tone is going to be the standard caucassian color.
"Or maybe Bill gates pasty skin tone is going to be the standard caucassian color."
or maybe a bill gates suggestive pose mode, which will automatically detect the head of your subject and superimpose that onto preprogrammed images of bill gates' body in diaphanous bathing attire.
no, but seriously, nikon is an innovator, and continues to make bold moves that will continue to challenge the competition.
i see a technology-sharing agreement with the largest software company on earth as a sign that nikon is yet again planning something.
this can only be good for us, says i, to you, from me.
I think the perpetual comparison of features between Canon and Nikon, trying to determine which camera is equivalent to which one or which camera beats which one is becoming ridiculous now.
Most of the features that are discussed are highly subjective, even when there are numbers to back them up.
Example 1: weather sealing (no number here). All cameras feature a level of protection. Some are better than others. Besides this, how do you want to make a precise comparison ? Canon says the 50D has some environmental sealing; Nikon says the D300 has some weather sealing. Which is best ? Is any better than the other. I expect the D300 is probably more rugged, by the look of it, but to what extent ? Even the most serious review website have refrained from putting a camera under the rain to see how it does (yet dpreview is in London, so it should be easy for thme---sorry, I could not resist ).
Example 2: AF (one number in the specs: the number of points!). Yes, the D300 has more AF points (and I understand the AF behavior can be parameterized more precisely on the Nikon AF). But, we read a report of a pro photographer saying the 50D he tested had blazingly fast AF (I do not remember the word; well it is neither english nor french, anyway ). What about precision ? We know the AF behavior depends not only on the AF sensors but also on the AF computer. We have no knowledge about the later, except that it is different. It may turn into another disaster à la 1DmkIII, or into a great success. For what I do, I would rather take a faster and more precise AF than a 50+ points AF, should Canon decide to upgrade the now classic 9-points AF of their middle range cameras. So, I think again we cannot really judge right now.
Example 3: sensor, and ISO performance (one number in the specs: MPs!). We understand that Canon did do some significant technology improvement with the gapless lenses, but we cannot judge before serious reviews (dpreview has been assessing that kind of things quite well) are released. They may get a one or two stop advantage over other 12MP sensors at comparable ISO, with more detail OR the new sensor technology may turn out a pure marketing thing and the higher resolution may cause so so higher ISO performance. No way to tell before the camera is out actually (even though, I do expect some welcome gain here, just my intuition).
So all in all, what we are sure about is things such as: Nikon D90 does video, Canon 50D does focus adjustment.
abam wrote:
this can only be good for us, says i, to you, from me.
Whenever Microsoft does deals, it is not good for us. It is about controlling and milking markets for every penny no matter how chilling it is on freedom to innovate. Every product you buy is more expensive because the world's software is stuck in 1993. Every tech product you buy is five years behind where it would be if MS had not been able to suck the blood out of the world's economy. For every billion MS has made it has caused 10-100 billion of damage, at least, to world markets, because software is an efficiency lever. Software and networks are a long long way behind where they would be now if one company had not been allowed to break the law. This has cost all of us, but the world's poor have paid the highest price. Gates is not a philanthropist: his pile of cash isn't big enough to even begin paying for how much his company's illegal activities have cost the world. Deals with MS remain a great loss to all of us.
Edited to remove typos.
Edited by brainiac on Aug 30, 2008 at 01:05 AM GMT
brainiac wrote:
Whenever Microsoft does deals, it is not good for us. It is about controlling and milking markets for every penny no matter how chilling it is on freedom to innovate. Every product you buy is more expensive because the world's software is stuck in 1993. Every tech product you buy is five years behind where it would be if MS had not been able to suck the blood out of the world's economy. For every billion MS has made it has caused 10-100 billion of damage, at least, to world markets, because software is an efficiency lever. Software and networks are a long long way behind where they would be now if one company had not been allowed to break the law. This has cost all of us, but the world's poor have paid the highest price. Gates is not a philanthropist: his pile of cash isn't big enough to even begin paying for how much his companies illegal activities have cost the world. Deals with MS remain a great loss to all of us....Show more →
Guys, rarely have I disagreed with the stuff you've said, but.....here it comes, we need to avoid a mac vs. PC flame war here because we're supposed to be either trashing or blindly worshipping Canon and/or Nikon here, not PCs and macs...
Don't you think that Nikon knows what they're doing? They're maximizing the initial number of people that can use their little pseudo-raw converter, not minimizing it by limiting it to apple only. i would expect iSheep support soon, so the herd should just stay calm.
+ of course an arsenal of lenses (canon being easier to find...) (n:14-24, 24-70,70-200,300 c:16-35,24-70,70-200is,300is,24,35,50,85,135)
