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Archive 2008 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread

  
 
apdieb
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p.3 #1 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


walter23 wrote:
Yeah, it's going to be a newspapers and cats' whiskers clusterf** around here in a few months time


For many of us Mark III owners, this has already become a problem. Especially, when the focus shifts depending on the conditions. No amount of M/A fixes "constant inconsistency".


See latest example here.

Edited on Aug 26, 2008 at 09:59 PM



Aug 26, 2008 at 09:28 PM
Marcel VanEerd
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p.3 #2 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


digitalbug30d wrote:



We're guests today at the introduction of the 50D from Canon, a new SLR designed (built..) for the demanding amateur but also for the professional user who wants a back-up body with a high speed. Here in front of me is Hans Smittenaar, with Canon.
Q:Can you tell me what kind of camera has been introduced today?
A:Well, it is a special day today b/c we have introduced the 50D, an expansion of our line-up, not meant as a replacement of another model, which maybe is surprising. The 50D is an important camera that covers the middle segment. It is meant to bridge the gap between the 40D and the 5D. There are a few important changes in this model; a new sensor, a new Digic IV processor, the same seals as the 40D. We aim at the semi-professional or the advanced amateur or can be a back-up camera for a professional, especially nature photography, sports photography because of the speed, 15MP at 6.3fps do we expect that in those segments this camera will be embraced with open arms. Because of this, this is a good day for us. This segment is becoming very important. If you look at the total DSLR, there is the entry segment, where earlier this year we introduced the 1000D and the 450D and the middle segment at the moment is about 22% of the total (DSLR market, ed.) and we notice lots of growth, and the expectation is that within two years, that middle segment will increase to 30% market share.
Q: What does this mean for sales of the 50D? Is that a camera of which you have a sales prognosis?
A: Of course. It is not easy to predict the success, b/c competition has increased dramatically, there are far more special offers, far more models. Because of that, this is a strategic model for us so we are armed to face the competition. Now, this looks like a weapon, with which we look to increase our market share. We are still the leader with 41%, but it is obvious that Sony and Nikon are very active. Which is good for us; it enables us to set our targets higher and keep coming up with new products.

(Turns to next Canon dude)
Q: ?.. Bart, technical specialist with Canon Netherlands, the 50D, what is, technically speaking, so special about this camera?
A: It is our newest development, it contains the newest version of the Digic processor, the Digic IV which is undoubtedly faster than its predecessor and because it is faster, and has 1.5 times the resolution of the 40D and uses a different algorithm which results in better noise control at higher ISO values. At the max ISO of 12800 and 3200 ISO as standard (ed: that's what he said...) I have seen the internal comparisons and they are very promising. I won't jump ahead to what conclusions testers might offer but I have full confidence in the results. In addition, there is the live view screen which we know from previous models, now with face detection for 35 faces. We show one face, but with controls you can switch to other faces in the finder. And those are things that are possible with a faster processor.
Q: At the back of the camera, we see that the LCD is new? Still 3" but with a far higher resolution.
A: Yes, far higher with 920,000 px. This was challenging as with a higher resolution, brightness and contrast is hard to maintain in bright sunlight. This new Clear View LCD contains several coatings which uses reflected light to the advantage of the viewer. A higher resolution also meant that we could use different fonts for the menus which increases viewing pleasure. FOr the first time, this is a screen from which you can establish focus accuracy, good colour reproduction in direct sunlight. Cameras in this class have a limited viewfinder, meaning not 100% as you would expect in a professional camera, but for a camera with this size sensor the size of the VF is optimized. We have long surpassed the point at which you can focus manually. The resolution of cameras is so high that even with a 100% FF the accuracy is not optimal. We noticed that professionals with 5D-like cameras who work with a DOF of a few milimeters the focus missed, and that current AF systems are so good that this works better.

(My note, not part of the translation: his comments absolutely made no sense to me. I think he put his foot in his mouth here...)

Q: A very high resolution in the camera, that demands quite a bit from lenses. Is this camera compatible with all lenses Canon offers?
A: Yes, this camera is designed for EF-S lenses, which is a special series which is smaller and lighter but other AF lenses can also be fitted. 15 Megapixel, current state of technology demands quality lenses.
Q: So better an "L" series lens than a normal lens?
A" An "L" lens has no doubt a higher quality, however for example a 17-55 f2.8 has optically the same qualities. It is built differently, it is an EF-S lens, but optically I can recommend that kind of lens.
Q: The camera has a HD connection. Does that mean the camera is fully compatible with the HD standard?
A: Yes, it is. As you may know, most flat screen TV's sold in the Netherlands is at least HD ready and cameras have a resolution that far surpasses the HD resolution so it makes sense that one will be made to fit the other and so you can enjoy the fantastic images you created with your camera on your HD tv set. This connection allows anything you see on the LCD, the menu, the Live View, a review of the images, or a slide show you can start from the camera to be seen in the resolution of the HD TV. If you have a full-size HD TV, the camera automatically switches to the full-size HD resolution. (Interviewer interjects "it is auto-sensing"). (Nods..) Auto-sensing. There is a brief communication, which you can see, and it is the TV that determines in which resolution the viewing will be done.
A: That means on a normal HD TV the resolution is 1280 and on a full HD it will be 1920..
Q: 1920. Certainly. And if you see the difference between the standard connection which has been present on cameras for years, well, the difference is astounding. A regular TV simply will not show the clarity or the colours. HD is the solution and it fits the camera and the experience that belongs with such a camera.
A: Thank you.

Edited on Aug 26, 2008 at 10:08 PM



Aug 26, 2008 at 10:03 PM
dcmiller
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p.3 #3 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I look at Phils list of What's New in the 5D and I find it very impressive. Gapless microlenses, more controls, better high ISO. This is great news for all the new Canon camera that are coming.




Aug 26, 2008 at 10:09 PM
LAPhotoPro.com
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p.3 #4 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


You mean 50D. I think it's a tremendous upgrade. For some reason people are still expecting canon to add more pro features in a prosumer camera.


Aug 26, 2008 at 10:11 PM
dcmiller
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p.3 #5 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I was trying to say the 5D replacement(s) will be great. And think of the next one series with two digic fours doing -200mps.

I don't know about pro or prosumer. Nine focus points are fine if the system is good. All these cameras are water sealed pretty well now. I think the negatives are way overblown at times. I think the feature list is fantastic. If the pixel quality is actually good with 15mp on an aps-c sensor, future full frame cameras are going to be fantastic.

A super high density sensor like the 50D makes a lens like the 300/2.8 into a true long lens. All kinds of benefits from the new sensors if Canon has improved pixel density as much as they are indicating.



Aug 26, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Andy Wilson
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p.3 #6 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Well time will tell if there is a significant improvement in IQ of in focus images with this camera.

My disappointment (as much from what it likely means for the 5D successor as for this camera) is that Canon still hasn't got it about the AF. Nikon can put its top of the line AF module in a sub US$2000 camera and a US$3000 full frame camera. But so far canon hasn't caught on...

Let me spell it out for any Canon marketers who are reading. Serious hobbiests and I would expect all pros want consistent, accurate, Auto focus (unless their are MF only guys). Listen carefully guys and gals...

There is ZERO Image Quality in a misfocused image

I'm not saying that all my images (with a 20D) are misfocused, far from it (and some misfocus is user error, I readily admit) but I would say that consistently accurate AF is top of the list for me (and I suspect a number of others) to upgrade. (Followed by 1.5 to 2 stop improvement over my 20D's high ISO noise performance in lighting conditions way south of 5000K and a more distant third a few more MP's for group photos and landscapes)

Now maybe I will be pleasantly suprised at Photokina or whenever Canon tries to catch up with Nikon in this area but I am not holding my breath.

BTW that's four 1.6X crop models in a year. So I don't think Canon is giving up on this segment yet for those who have disdained EF-s lenses.



Aug 27, 2008 at 12:02 AM
tanglefoot47
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p.3 #7 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I am sure there will be something wrong with it like err99 etc. I would love to get one but my 40D works great


Aug 27, 2008 at 12:18 AM
Malk
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p.3 #8 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Thanks for the translation Marcel.


Aug 27, 2008 at 12:26 AM
QLuong
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p.3 #9 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


CKrueger wrote:
So, lets see some high ISO samples!


From the Canon website, here are the sample photos.

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos50d/eos50d_sample-e.html

There is an ISO1600 picture (sample photo 4), but it is in pretty good light (1/8000 at f/8 which translates to 15EV), so it may not give an accurate indication of high ISO noise in low light, but it is better than nothing.



Aug 27, 2008 at 12:39 AM
Andy Wilson
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p.3 #10 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


QLuong wrote:
There is an ISO1600 picture (sample photo 4), but it is in pretty good light (1/8000 at f/8 which translates to 15EV), so it may not give an accurate indication of high ISO noise in low light, but it is better than nothing.


Yeah, I guess to me the question is how well is it going to do when I have to colour balance for some pretty ugly dull flourescents or stage lighting etc. That's where my 20D really starts to breakdown. I'm interested to see how this camera performs around the iso1600 to 3200 mark under those kind of conditions. Even though its only the second of my upgrade priorities it is still quite an important one.

I'm probably more likely to look for a full frame to add to my 20D than a crop, though.




Aug 27, 2008 at 12:51 AM
Xavier Rival
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p.3 #11 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


therock wrote:
I Canon's focus adjust works they just saved a ton of in-house costs generated at the service centers.


I sincerely wonder about that.

Just look at the number of threads (here and on other fora) starting with "my new lens is bad, brand X is crap, I want to switch to brand Y, please tell me I am right, looking at this picture of my dog", that end up in "the only problem is there is a focus calibration problem with your camera and your new lens, and by the way your old lens you liked so much was not focusing so well either". Focus issues are not so well understood by users, and it often takes time to achieve the diagnosis. Fixing the issue requires not only knowing it but also rigorous testing of various settings and choice of the right one. A wrong adjustment will just cause more problems (how many people will buy a used 50D that was adjusted by the previous user and go mad until they realize they should also adjust it, or at least clear the previous settings ?).

So, it is not clear to me how many users the focus adjustment feature will save, and how many of them it will doom.

Edited on Aug 27, 2008 at 01:10 AM



Aug 27, 2008 at 01:08 AM
Daan B
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p.3 #12 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Marcel VanEerd wrote:
...We aim at the semi-professional or the advanced amateur or can be a back-up camera for a professional, especially nature photography, sports photography because of the speed, 15MP at 6.3fps do we expect that in those segments this camera will be embraced with open arms. Because of this, this is a good day for us. This segment is becoming very important. If you look at the total DSLR, there is the entry segment, where earlier this year we introduced the 1000D and the 450D and the middle segment at the moment is about 22% of the total (DSLR market,
...Show more

So the 50D must face the D300 and its Sony counterpart (don't know which one)... In order to be succesful at it I reckon they have to lower the price of the 50D significantly. The big question is: will the middle segment be a sucker for pro-like features (D300) or ultimate IQ (50D)? These are going to be interesting months...




Edited on Aug 27, 2008 at 01:32 AM



Aug 27, 2008 at 01:32 AM
Alistair Watson
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p.3 #13 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


therock wrote:
I Canon's focus adjust works they just saved a ton of in-house costs generated at the service centers.
As for the lucky ones who never had a bad lens. I envy you. I have confirmation from canon on my bad luck.


I have a feeling this (MA on a 50D) is going to be a double edged sword for Canon. Sure for the more advanced user it may well take a small number of calibrations out of the service centre and into the users hands but it will be replaced by a higher volume of call centre cases of 'i tried MA and it didn't work' etc., etc., etc.,



Aug 27, 2008 at 02:23 AM
Harry T
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p.3 #14 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


So what about the new D90 at Nikon ESP* $999 and movie mode?

Just throwing it out there to mix some fuel into the fire

Of coure true tests have to be done in real life situations but the D90 has already been used extensively in the field by some photogs prior to release with good writeups.

Thought? No Thoughts? Who Cares?



Aug 27, 2008 at 02:38 AM
eosfun
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p.3 #15 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Harry,

I have said it before: features or image quality that's the question? What's giving you more EOSfun?

Edited on Aug 27, 2008 at 02:50 AM



Aug 27, 2008 at 02:49 AM
Alistair Watson
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p.3 #16 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


eosfun wrote:
Harry,

I have said it before: features or image quality that's the question? What's giving you more EOSfun?


Well, I doubt a Nikon D90 would give you EOSfun now would it!!



Aug 27, 2008 at 02:56 AM
eosfun
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p.3 #17 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


No, but they make coolpix


Aug 27, 2008 at 02:59 AM
gml1
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p.3 #18 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Daan B wrote:
The big question is: will the middle segment be a sucker for pro-like features (D300) or ultimate IQ (50D)? These are going to be interesting months...


Just posted this on another thread:
Ultimate image quality on a crop camera is an oxymoron for those that value image quality the most.
So, they will save for the 5DII and will later say that there's a night and day difference between the 5DII and 50D.

Those that value features the most will not be happy with the 50D either, since the 50D is no D300.

The 50D thus does not seem to be priced correctly at $1399.


Edited on Aug 27, 2008 at 03:31 AM



Aug 27, 2008 at 03:31 AM
DaveEP
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p.3 #19 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


walter23 wrote:
You forgot the most important part:

"AF Microadjustment C.Fn III-7
+/- 20 steps
Adjust all lenses by same amount
Adjust up to 20 lenses individually"

This is the best feature ever! It should keep the measurbators happily shooting newspapers, brick walls, and AF targets for several months at least!



This is perfect for primes, but for zooms it sounds like it has the same shortcoming as the Nikon version (which they have had for some time now), in that the long end of the zoom may need adjusting one way and the short end the other way, and you only get one adjustment per lens.

Otherwise, it's a welcome feature that yet again, Canon are playing catchup with (along with better LCD and reliable AF etc). There are still quite a few other features missing. However, for all those who would in the past have bought a 20D, 30D or 40D when looking for their first DSLR, this is another step forward.

Edited on Aug 27, 2008 at 03:43 AM



Aug 27, 2008 at 03:41 AM
walter23
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p.3 #20 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread



Otherwise, it's a welcome feature that yet again, Canon are playing catchup with (along with better LCD and reliable AF etc). There are still quite a few other features missing. However, for all those who would in the past have bought a 20D, 30D or 40D when looking for their first DSLR, this is another step forward.


The next version (the 60D) will also have a manual focus ring, plus a pair of eyes with an attached brain.



Aug 27, 2008 at 03:48 AM
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