Archive 2008 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Comm...
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.13 #1 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
hermankt wrote:
It is written; count it all Joy when they abuse you,call you names or even throw you in jail for my names' sake....
What would a moslem say if you forced him or her to shot a PIG roasting party ? 98% of them would plainly say no thank you.Would you then sue him or her?
Like wise I wouldn't shot a homosexual so-called wedding for any amount of money.(period) I RATHER pay the fine than forcefully try to please people!
I don't need to cover up with lies;Truth is sour.Swallow it or spit it.
Hey don't involve me in your B...S..., go find someone else.
In these last days,you either fear God or you fear man.Their is no middle ground.
Anyway,do whatever you want BUT;Remember the day of Judgment....Show more →
Herman if you fear God, keep His commandments. God commands you to love your neighbors and this includes your gay and lesbian neighbors too. Your attitude here reminds me of the Pharisee in the temple who prayed thanking God that he was not like the tax collector. Remember that Pharisee was not justified and was held in contempt by Christ. You too will appear before God and give an account on judgment day. There is zero room in Christianity for the belief that one is less of a sinner than someone else. Even the Apostle Paul described himself as the greatest of sinners. Humble yourself; acknowledge your sin, and reach out to others in kindness, compassion, and love. That is the message of the gospel. Certainly proclaim the high standards that God sets for human thought and action, but do so in love and demonstrating love with your deeds.
p.13 #2 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Depending on the subject matter ... it appears as though you may discriminate, at least as to which laws you wish to obey. See link for an example. So much for "the law, is the law" and must be obeyed at all costs. Seems as though it is quite acceptable to pick and choose which laws to obey based on personal values. Is this an example of "the law protects the minority and the masses with even hand"?
I offer this example only to point out that there is indeed a double standard at play.
p.13 #3 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
hermankt wrote:
It is written
Written and edited by human with love and compassion as well as human with hate and intolerance over thousands of years, without God's signature on any one of the many versions written.
Anyway,do whatever you want BUT;Remember the day of Judgment.
I live my life based on my belief that those who use religion to spread love and compassion will eventually join a loving God, and those who spread hate and intolerance in the name of God will unite with a hateful and intolerant "", still God or a different master?
p.13 #4 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
> What really ticks me off here is that if these photogs had made a white lie and said "were booked that day" probably nothing would have happened. Sometimes honesty can really bite you in the backside. But I totally agree that it is up to the photogs to sign a contract whenever, wherever and for whomever they want.
You missed something. Had the photography business simply provided pricing and availability data, nothing would have happened.
p.13 #7 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Steve Spencer wrote:
There is zero room in Christianity for the belief that one is less of a sinner than someone else. Even the Apostle Paul described himself as the greatest of sinners.
In that case, if Paul was the greatest of sinners - there must be lesser sinners
p.13 #8 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Sorry,love doesn't mean that I do whatever you want me to do and humility doesn't mean that you slap me around as you wish or that you abuse my rights because of your rights.Not at all.
I love them very much to an extent that I pray for them,I talk to them,I buy from them,I sit with them and I worn them of a ditch that they are about to fall in. But I hate the sin that they are doing.I don't want to get involved. I am not perfect but please I have limits.
But if I say that I won't shot their stuff and they end up sueing me then I don't know how to call that.Imagine a dirty stranger asking you for a lift and refuse;next thing you know you are in court for discriminating!!! That is not fare at all.
The problem is not what you are doing the problem is what you are forcing me to do.
Hey get over it ,hire another photographer.If you see me trespassing at your so-called wedding with a bible or something, then you can sue me then.
If God did not spare sodom and gomorah then who knows!
p.13 #9 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
picking up a physically dirty stranger (that may or not be physically dangerous to you or your car is not the same as telling someone you won't shoot your ceremony because they are morally different than you. I agree with you, I would rather not shoot the ceremony but your logic is unrational. Maybe in a Ugandan court they would rule as you like but not here so its irrelevant
Apr 14, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.13 #10 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
paulhodson wrote:
In that case, if Paul was the greatest of sinners - there must be lesser sinners
Hi Paul,
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. When the Apostle Paul claimed to be the greatest of sinners, he was not claiming that he was less of a sinner than anyone else and was teaching that each Christian should look to his or her own sin first and each Christian should not believe that he or she is less of a sinner than anyone else. Simply put, "don't think you are less of a sinner than other people."
p.13 #11 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
If the photographers were polite and simply said they were not comfortable with the situation, the lesbian couple would have likely been compassionate, and looked elsewhere. I don't think they even needed to lie. It's all about the tone of the voice, and the words that were said. However, if the photographers used this situation as a springboard to spout their anti-gay christian beliefs (even in a subtle way), I would be angered as well. There are a lot of christians who will offer that fact that they are christians as some sort of "proof" that they are good people. I hear it all the time. Often times, the fact that they are christian flies out of their mouth in response to a question that has nothing to do with the topic. You don't hear me pleading that I'm an atheist if I'm pulled over for a speeding ticket do you? Without hearing the entire story, I do have a feeling that the photographers just flung out the christian label in passive aggressive way to talk down to the lesbians and try to prove they were on higher ground. If I was the lesbians, I'd be very angry. It's all about people skills. I honestly don't care what religion you are. Whatever you want to believe, go for it --- just don't use it as an excuse to be mean, or hurt the feelings of a person with good intentions.
p.13 #12 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Steve Spencer wrote:
Herman if you fear God, keep His commandments. God commands you to love your neighbors and this includes your gay and lesbian neighbors too. Your attitude here reminds me of the Pharisee in the temple who prayed thanking God that he was not like the tax collector. Remember that Pharisee was not justified and was held in contempt by Christ. You too will appear before God and give an account on judgment day. There is zero room in Christianity for the belief that one is less of a sinner than someone else. Even the Apostle Paul described himself as the greatest of sinners. Humble yourself; acknowledge your sin, and reach out to others in kindness, compassion, and love. That is the message of the gospel. Certainly proclaim the high standards that God sets for human thought and action, but do so in love and demonstrating love with your deeds. ...Show more →
Steve:
God does command us to love our neighbour, but love does not mean accepting a lifestyle that God forbids. I love my children, and because of that love, I will correct them when I think they are stepping out side of Gods commands. Love DOES NOT mean that we accept what they are doing so as to not appear judgemental. If I refuse to photograph a gay/lesbian wedding, am I being judgemental. No, I am simply recognizing what God calls sin as sin, and am choosing to not have anything to do with the actual ceremony itself.
What would Jesus honestly do in this situation. Do you honestly believe he would take their pictures. I believe he would explain to them that he loves them, but that what they are doing is not in God's will, and therefore he would refuse to take the pictures. Jesus was always telling the ones he ministered to go and sin no more. Now, how would he be able to take their ceremony pictures, and then tell them... oh by the way, now that you are married, go and sin no more. That would result in the shortest wedding ever.
Apr 14, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.13 #13 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
hermankt wrote:
Sorry,love doesn't mean that I do whatever you want me to do and humility doesn't mean that you slap me around as you wish or that you abuse my rights because of your rights.Not at all.
Nor did I say it. You are creating a straw man to argue with. Nobody say love and humility are these things.
hermankt wrote:
I love them very much to an extent that I pray for them,I talk to them,I buy from them,I sit with them and I worn them of a ditch that they are about to fall in. But I hate the sin that they are doing.I don't want to get involved. I am not perfect but please I have limits.
If you would buy from them, why not sell to them? I would presume that you think it is not wrong to sell people pictures from an event. Why not sell this couple your services as a photographer?
p.13 #15 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
> the photographers being sued is unconstitutional
they weren't sued - a discrimination claim was made to a state commission and the photography company was asked to pay the complainant's legal fees for filing the complaint - no damages were requested.
p.13 #17 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Hey Shelleyc, there is nothing wrong with being judgmental. We make judgments about things all day long. "Being judgmental is bad" is another useless and meritless liberal/left battlecry.
When you make your decision on you will vote for for president are you making a judgment? I think so. Are you thus being judgmental? I think so
p.13 #18 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Steve Spencer wrote:
Nor did I say it. You are creating a straw man to argue with. Nobody say love and humility are these things.
If you would buy from them, why not sell to them? I would presume that you think it is not wrong to sell people pictures from an event. Why not sell this couple your services as a photographer?
Steve:
There is a big difference between buying from someone, and taking pictures of them participating in something you don't agree with. I remember reading an article by a professional highly respected photographer that turned down a high paying job because the photos he would be taking would be supporting something he didn't agree with. It was in Outdoor Photographer.. a great article. He refused to cross moral boundaries for the sake of money.
p.13 #19 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
John Power wrote:
Sorry Red, YOU think the special interest group is the human race. Many others would say that that special interest group is that small percentage of the human race who harbor your mindset.
The interests represented in the legislation is the interest of all. It is easy to recognize when you are on the receiving end of discrimination - more difficult when it is someone else.
Society cannot accept that a business would reject a customer on a superficial basis like skin colour, religion or any of a growing list of traits. Imagine if you were refused a service on the basis of hair colour or extreme limbaughism.
Why would a photography business be any different from an apartment rental business - what if it were acceptable to deny renting an apartment to bald men - imagine the parks filled with homeless bald cat-owning men?
Discrimination hurts all of us and that is why most jurisdictions have legislation in hopes of protecting those whom someone or other may shun.
p.13 #20 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
John Power wrote:
Hey Shelleyc, there is nothing wrong with being judgmental. We make judgments about things all day long. "Being judgmental is bad" is another useless and meritless liberal/left battlecry.
When you make your decision on you will vote for for president are you making a judgment? I think so. Are you thus being judgmental? I think so
True... maybe I should have said discriminatory. We are not being discriminatory when we acknowledge what God calls sin as sin, and therefore choose to have nothing to do with it. We are being discerning... something God calls us to be.
", still God or a different master? 