snaptie2002 wrote:
Call me paranoid but it seems like inviting competition into your market place.
I Glimpsed over their website a few months ago and decided I could live without them so I did not go into full research mode. I have way too much other stuff going on.
What happens when they get their foot in the door with the contacts you already have? The AD's and other school officials.Could they (Maxpreps) wind up calling the shots? The next thing you know you are like an employee shooting on their terms.
I will keep an eye out here for some of ya'lls insights.
snaptie2002 wrote:
Call me paranoid but it seems like inviting competition into your market place.
I Glimpsed over their website a few months ago and decided I could live without them so I did not go into full research mode. I have way too much other stuff going on.
What happens when they get their foot in the door with the contacts you already have? The AD's and other school officials.Could they (Maxpreps) wind up calling the shots? The next thing you know you are like an employee shooting on their terms.
I will keep an eye out here for some of ya'lls insights.
Thanks,
Marty
My thoughts exactly. Thats why I do it myself. They may be Ok now, but I worry they'll turn into another lifetouch with exclusive contracts and low quality.
Sorry, I guess it's a good thing I am pursuing photography instead of writing
Let me put it this way. We cover several schools over several counties. We have done the leg work to get permission, access and all that sort of thing.
We have developed relationships with all the decision makers and everything is going along smoothly.
Then I decide to bring Max Preps , or someone like them into the picture. They show up and smooze the folks I have been working with and toss around a little swag as someone else said they are known to do and everyone is happy.
Then one day Max Preps says.....Marty we think you should do it this way. I say well I want to do it another way. Max Preps says well you can't shoot for us anymore.
So far no problem. I will just do it myself. I show up at the game. There is someone in a spiffy new Max Preps jacket shooting from the side lines. Still not a huge problem..... Then here comes the AD. "Sorry Marty, we are only using Max preps shooters now." Now I have a problem.
A little far fetched? Maybe..........Keep in mind that all my speculation is based on about thirty minutes of looking at their terms and conditions on their website a couple of months ago along with the discussion on this forum.
A lot far fetched. They do not seek exclusive contracts nor do they intend to. They've been around for a long time in CA and even have an official status as photographers for CIF but they do not try to corner the market or control their photographers in any way. And let me just say this, if they ever tried to do something like that, their photographer network would fall apart and they'd lose their ability to deliver their entire package of services.
The only people they toss swag (as you call it) about to are their shooters. They aren't out there passing out gifts to the coaching staff or the AD's. The only thing they do to schmooze the folks is to provide an excellent multi faceted service that is much more than a photography service. In fact, the photo part of their services is not their main service in the least.
Perhaps the better approach is more research and less speculation.
MaxPreps is not a photography business, I'm not sure how much more clear I can make that.
The photo network a bunch of freelance shooters who set their own schedules, assignments and work. The site is based around editorial content, columns, news, videos, rankings, stats, etc. They are much more concerned about ad revenue, videos, these dumb myspace-esque athlete pages, etc.
I write weekly columns about NYC and New Jersey, and they pay me per-story, like any normal newspaper or website would. Photos are complimentary and used along with stories. I doubt very much the site itself makes a ton of profit on the photo sales -- they're taking 20% of the retail price, and they are then paying for the printing and shipping and customer service.
I would not be worried about MaxPreps somehow taking over the high school world and making themselves the law. And as an aspiring shooter, I would not view MaxPreps as a main source of income or a primary business.
They are not nor do they intend to be another "Lifetouch" as someone previously mentioned. They are all about content not about selling photos. They are owned by CBS and their primary focus is providing news. articles, states, standings, etc. for high school varsity sports.
I shoot youth sports and don't see Maxpreps as a threat to me. If you're that worried about competition then maybe running your own business is not for you. All this paranoia is really getting out of hand. Do you get paranoid and overly protective when you see shooters for the local newspapers show up at the same games? If not then why would you worry about Maxpreps?
Hey, Just looking at all the angles. Offering a couple of things for consideration and discussion. Relax........now that it is open, you can set the record straight.
My serious research and speculation ended shortly after asking what they can do for me that I can't do for myself.
A couple of points of clarification, then I'm done here.
First, I did not say I thought Max Preps would try to corner the market. I said that they might develope a relationship with certain key decision makers that could come to prefer them over me.
Not worried about them doing it with swag. If I thought someone could beat me with a hat and tee shirt I would stay at the house. But they do have a large net work that they are looking to expand. At least that is what some of you guys are saying. They provide an excellent, multifaceted service that I am unable and uninterested in providing.
It is not a huge leap to imagine a sitiuation where a school district would prefer them over me if a dispute occurred.
Secondly, I'm not worried about competition. Nor am I dumb enough to invite competition or anyone that might, by any stretch of the imagination, become competition.
As for whether or not I should be running my own businness......sounds like speculation to me. So does any statement as to Max Preps intentions of obtaining exclusive contracts or not. I would think that decisions like that are made in a board room with the doors closed. Anyone outside that loop is speculating to some degree.
That's all I have for now. Got to go to my main source of income and primary business.........building bridges in Metro Atlanta.
Please, when making statements about Maxpreps, or any companies, goals, add the word "currently" to that statement.
Let's take a look at Getty. For years, they were a large RM and RF stock agency, that dealt with editorial and creative content. For the most part, this was par for the course.
Then, Getty went out and sought exclusive deals with entire leagues (NHL, NBA, NFL etc). Noone saw it coming, but it did affect a lot of team photographers, who had until then always worked out their own deals with teams.
Then out of nowhere, Getty decides that it was making too much money and started firesaling some of their content for 50 dollars for a 3 month contract. Now some people say this is a response to the popularity of microstock. To be honest, all it did was create an influx of high quality content for cheap. Now microstock included Getty, and thus the level of overall quality for microstocks went from hit and miss to "wow I can get Getty stuff for this price too".
So what's this have to do with Maxpreps? Simple. While they currently may have no intentions of monopolizing any markets, at some point they may feel it's necessary in order to bolster or continue business. What stops them?
By creating your own networks and ties with a community, you can protect yourself from that. Honestly, even that's not bulletproof, but shooting for what is in fact your competition... well, that doesn't sound too ideal to me.
Again, this is with ANY company. Maxpreps just happens to be the topic here.
Oh and please don't refer to Maxpreps as Max. I'm Max. Maxpreps is Maxpreps.
Maxpreps is NOT a photography company Max. That is not their business. To us it's the important part of their service because that's what we deal with, but to them it is only a small part of what they do. It's not the driver of their product.
So the photographers that had worked out their own deals and created their own relationships with the pro teams could not protect themselves from the Getty push for exclusives but the photographers for HS sports can protect themselves from Maxpreps?
Could Maxpreps change their entire business model at some point and decide to focus more on photography and as a result seek to exploit the relationships they have established with the HS's to garner exclusive contracts? Sure, they could do that but why speculate to that end? It seems pretty senseless to me.
bonnerkopf wrote:
If I am understanding it correctly, they pay 80 percent of the list price of pictures that people buy on the site?
How often do they cut a check?
Royalty Payment Dates.
MaxPreps, at its discretion, will either mail a check or send an electronic funds transfer to Member�s bank account for royalty fees owed to Member by the 25th day of each month for photographic products sold and shipped during the prior month. Royalty fees owed on images that are commercially licensed through MaxPreps or a third party will be paid on the 25th of each month after MaxPreps has collected payment for use of licensed image(s). It is the Member�s responsibility to maintain accurate payment information. Returned/rejected royalties fees will be held for a maximum of six months, after which time they will be forfeited....Show more →
Standard Royalty Compensation. Upon the sale and delivery of photographic prints and/or digital files to consumers, Member shall earn a royalty of eighty (80) percent of the net proceeds.
Net proceeds are defined as the total sale price (not including shipping and handling charges or sales tax, if applicable) of a product sold, minus the cost of production, order processing and marketing. Generally, the production, processing and marketing expense represent approximately ten (10) percent of the sale price.
Commercial Image Royalty Compensation. Upon the sale and delivery of digital images to commercial consumers, Member shall earn a royalty of fifty (50) percent of the net proceeds. Net proceeds are defined as the total sale price of the license, minus the cost of delivery, order processing and marketing. Generally, the delivery, processing and marketing expense represent approximately ten (10) percent of the sale price.
I was wondering about that Ken. I am curious as to how it all plays out in some real numbers, if anyone could be so kind as to quote from some real amounts they or someone they know have received.
another question I'm interested in is this: In markets where maxprep isn't established, what exactly do they bring to the table? I did a search on two local teams I shoot and I see a single gallery. There was no link to that gallery from he official school web sites. And, those websites are poorly maintained anyway so they don't get a lot of traffic. Given that, what marketing power does maxpreps bring? if people in a community aren't going to the school's internet site, what is Maxprep's marketing plan.
The single page on their website is of no help. So, are they going to do the legwork to make inroads with the schools? Are they going to get notification to parents that photos are posted (remember these are people that don't go to the athletic websites on the schools because it's all stale content).
The whole draw to using Maxpreps to host your photos is that it would bring you increased traffic. So assuming you're in one of these other areas - Michigan, Ohio (where I am) - what does maxpreps bring to the table that would be worth switching over to ISO 800 and strobes (even though my mkIII takes great ISO 2000 photos)?
I can understand if you're in CA and they're well established. But what would maxpreps bring to the table for a shooter in Michigan or Ohio where they're not well known. I didn't see anything about this gallery somebody in my area shot and hosted on maxpreps.
Note: I'm not bashing them. Just honestly asking what they bring to the table when they're not an established entity and don't already have a flow of traffic to their website.
They are becoming more known just by the fact that CBS owns them. There is a link to them from the cbssportsline.com page and one from cstv.com. In Alaska, I am the only MaxPreps shooter and this is my 2nd year shooting for them, and the first year it was, "What's MaxPreps?" The second year, I get a lot more, "oh yeah, I have heard of them", to "I check my old school in California on them all the time, I did not know they were here too, cool!"
In my opinion, they bring more resources to the teams, parents, coaches, and photographers. If you are shooting, why not snap a few extra of the visiting team and post them? Got a McDonalds All-American in your area? Probably going to get some play with the various media outlets MaxPreps deals with.
So they want you to go out and shoot ISO 800 or lower, use strobes, and provide the best possible shots, or they won't share them. ISO 2000 good enough for you, or, strobes are too expensive. One of their photo editors and I have been talking recently and her strobe kit is 2 Vivitar 285's, home made battery packs, and ebay wireless triggers. All for around $300. It is not too expensive any more. Shoot, that is less than the price of a 85mm 1.8 lens. And it will force you to look closer at your indoor, and outdoor shooting to make you a better photographer.
Finally, so you sign up, and you shoot a game. Another game comes up, but you are not required to shoot it for MaxPreps at all. Shoot what you want, when you want. Decide it is not working for you? No one is forcing you to keep submitting stuff to them.
bonnerkopf wrote:
I was wondering about that Ken. I am curious as to how it all plays out in some real numbers, if anyone could be so kind as to quote from some real amounts they or someone they know have received.
Thanks.
I recently had an order for 4, 5x7's. A 5x7 costs 7.99 on their order page. That is a total not including shipping of 31.99.
My commission on the sale was, 22.32. So out of the 7.99 I got 5.58 (geez I hope my math is right lol) or roughly 69.8% (70%)
Carl Auer wrote:
So they want you to go out and shoot ISO 800 or lower, use strobes, and provide the best possible shots, or they won't share them. ISO 2000 good enough for you, or, strobes are too expensive. One of their photo editors and I have been talking recently and her strobe kit is 2 Vivitar 285's, home made battery packs, and ebay wireless triggers. All for around $300. It is not too expensive any more. Shoot, that is less than the price of a 85mm 1.8 lens. And it will force you to look closer at your indoor, and outdoor shooting to make you a better photographer.
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Carl - you are making the assumption that a 2 vivitar solution produces better shots. I happen to disagree with that assumption. Especially if you can't bounce. I've seen very few people who I see getting 75 quality strobe shots where they're better than available light with the right equipment. I see a TON of flash burn, unnatural shots.
But that's besides the point. You still haven't answered the question - what, PRECISELY, does maxpreps do to get their name out there and get traffic onto their website frorm local people (who are, after all, the ones buying the photos). Let's say I live in the town of Podunk. How does maxpreps get the parents of Podunk High to visit their internet site? What is the marketing strategy and how is it implemented? By far, the vast majority of my clients are mothers not fathers - I'm not sure CBS.Sportsline.Com is a hot spot for many mothers of HS players. i could be wrong, but so far they seem to be the ones making the majority of purchases. So what does Maxpreps do to reach them?
That might be something you would send an email to them about, I am not sure any of us can tell you what their marketing strategy is or what and how they get the word out.
I know when I go to schools most coaches or AD's know about Maxpreps because they talked to them during a conference before the season. I don't remember the name, but all of them know about them.
I would think they have institued a strobe requirement to bring some semblance of quality to their photos. After all, let's face it, a lot of the ambient light stuff that a lot of people shoot, and sometimes post on here, is utter crap. The average mom and pop thinks they can fire up a dslr, take a picture, and gosh, since I have a great camera, this must be a great picture I just took! Plus, I am assuming the strobe requirement has been around for a number of years, so high ISO grain could have been a concern, although new generation equipment really has lessened that considerably. It is quite clear that strobed photos are generally vastly superior, all things considered; after all, light is a major cog in great photos, and strobes add that element. So it may help weed out some hack photographers who might think, hey, I can shoot pictures. We all know plenty of people who own thousands of bucks worth of equipment but are brutal photographers, but think they have great stuff.
John, I am not sure that maxpreps really is too concerned about reaching the majority of parents for photos. Since that is not apparently their core business, they don't focus on it, I am assuming. They have bigger fish to fry with their other offerings, it would seem. It seems it is just one piece of the pie. I am sure they count on photographers spreading the word somewhat, because after all, most of the money goes to the shooter not the company.
bonnerkopf wrote:
John, I am not sure that maxpreps really is too concerned about reaching the majority of parents for photos. Since that is not apparently their core business, they don't focus on it, I am assuming. They have bigger fish to fry with their other offerings, it would seem. It seems it is just one piece of the pie. I am sure they count on photographers spreading the word somewhat, because after all, most of the money goes to the shooter not the company.
That's my fear. So, what do they bring to the table then vs. me (or anyone else) staying on their own and say using Smugmug or another website that handles presentation, collections and distribution.
This discussion is about whether or not it makes sense for a photographer to do business with maxpreps. If I'm still taking the photos at my expense, I still have to provide all the liability iinsurance and I still have to do the marketing, what is maxpreps doing other than hosting my photos?
Again, my point is not to disparage the company - just to understand as a business man what I get from the arrangement that I dont get doing things on my own?
