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Archive 2008 · MaxPreps.com

  
 
DennisC
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p.2 #1 · MaxPreps.com


Dan, yeah, that's what I've been thinking. Shoot, upload, go to bed, earn 80%. The alternative of maintaining my own site, dealing w/customers, yada, yada, yada, everything you said, would not net that many more % points, I suspect.

Great thread.

Edited on Feb 06, 2008 at 02:28 PM



Feb 06, 2008 at 02:27 PM
msauk
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p.2 #2 · MaxPreps.com


There are always going to be pro's and con's with whatever you do. I shoot for maxpreps and the coaches around Utah are getting to know it better. In Cali Maxpreps is huge, and to me they are really just starting to branch out into other states.

I also host the images on my own personal site as well. But yeah I like maxpreps and will continue to shoot for them when I have time



Feb 06, 2008 at 02:53 PM
Zamboni Dan
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p.2 #3 · MaxPreps.com


I could reel off good and bad experiences with maxpreps, but overall I like it. I don't want to sound like I'm making a sales pitch or something -- from my personal experience, I've been very pleased with the sales, exposure and opportunities. I like photojournalism, and this gives me an excuse to shoot, sell and buy more photo junk

and yes, what msauk just said -- you can sell the same images on your own personal site as well if you so desire. One of our shooters in NJ does this and says he does pretty well on both -- he setup a photoreflect site and posts his shots to both max and his own. I doubt very much the percentage of profit, after printing/shipping is factored in, is all that far off



Feb 06, 2008 at 03:01 PM
Scott Sewell
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p.2 #4 · MaxPreps.com


Max has already reminded us of my general views on shooting for MP. Everyone's gotta do what they believe is in their best interest. But lemme toss out a couple of other things to consider that might fit with the direction this discussion is taking.

IMO, "shoot, upload, go to bed, earn 80%" is not a good approach for someone who is trying to run a photography business, especially for someone who might be just starting out. Of course, what has to be factored into the equation is whether you’re doing this for fun or new gear, or if you are trying to develop and grow a photography business. If you’re the hobby shooter, then growing a solid, successful business might not mean much to you. Very few of those shooters last long, from what I’ve seen.

So, let's say someone is fairly new to the HS sports biz and they start out with MP, what business skills are they developing to really grow their photo business with the “shoot, upload, go to bed, earn 80%” strategy? Can’t image they’re the kinds of business skills that will carry one very far.

On the other hand, a newer sports shooter can develop a solid business model…have their own web site, sell their own photos, gain experience dealing with clients, and then add MP to help grow their business.

Again, not that shooting for MP is bad or shouldn’t be done, but I’m personally glad I’ve worked to grow my business on my own and am confident I can sell photos, deal with clients, market myself, and make shooting worth my time and effort (and, yes, I do enjoy doing this!). I’ve considered MP, but just haven’t figured out how it would fit into my business in a way that would be beneficial.



Edited on Feb 06, 2008 at 04:20 PM



Feb 06, 2008 at 04:20 PM
Zamboni Dan
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p.2 #5 · MaxPreps.com


Scott, I agree -- one should not view shooting for MaxPreps as a primary source of income or their main business. I don't really considerate it my business -- I would assume most photogs who shoot for max do so in their free time, after work, in evenings, on the weekends, etc. To that degree, I think its a helpful source of extra money, and, journalistic appreciation aside, that is what I view it as.

It does not involve team/individual/senior portrait- type stuff like other youth shooters probably have contracts with and make money from... just action shots

I agree, if your goal is to start your own photo business, its probably best to worry about yourself and your own concerns -- again, maxpreps is not primarily a photography business. in fact, in their legalese contract, I think it actually says the photos posted are for editorial use and any sales are coincidental...

If you want to shoot on weekends or some night hoops, etc, I think its ideal, and that's basically who maxpreps is targeting I think.




Feb 06, 2008 at 04:46 PM
frozenrope
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p.2 #6 · MaxPreps.com


Scott, I don't understand why shooting for MaxPreps shouldn't be part of a shooter's preparation for starting their own business. They aren't going to learn the business skills shooting for MP but they are going to be able to get more shooting experience in multiple sports and get an understanding on the post event process and submitting to an editor. Why can't they work to develop their won business plan and shoot for MP at the same time? IMO, it doesn't have to be one or the other or even one before the other. They can both be done at the same time both with their own benefits. MP is not an either or proposition.


Feb 07, 2008 at 02:12 AM
Steve Ickes
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p.2 #7 · MaxPreps.com


Yes, I am continuing to build my own photo business but, for me, Maxpreps offers a perfect opportunity to get out and shoot some additional events when my schedule allows. For me it is supplemental to my primary focus which is my business. And actually if you are new to this game, it really doesn't hurt to have a photo editor.

Some people don't like MP requirements or guidelines with regard to image requirements. Personally, I'm not all that fond of shooting football with flash. Two MKII bodies, a 70-200, a 400mm f2.8, and a belt full of other gear is more than enough to lug around but then add a Quantum battery, flash, brackets, extra chords, etc. and it starts to be more than annoying. However, it has made me shoot photos in a manner that I probably wouldn't have on my own. Yes, it was frustrating for the first few events but then things began to fall into place.

Again, let me emphasize, I would not be shooting for Maxpreps primarily. Working as a stringer, independent contractor, etc. for such organizations is a great way to pick up additional work and get your images out to a larger audience. I know that MP regularly sells images to other media outlets as well as various companies. I believe they've had some images in SI and Nike purchased some to use as marketing material at an event. For me it's just a low-cost, low-stress way to broaden my market and pick up a few extra dollars as well. I do this with Maxpreps as well as several other "media outlets" and it's worked well for me and had no impact on my primary photo business.

As previously asked and answered, depending on the event MP will arrange for credentials. They do provide a "press pass" but you must have 3 galleries posted before they will do so. Before I rec'd mine, I simply called the AD, and introduced myself. I never had a problem. When you rec've your pass, MP will also send you a nice jacket, shirt, and hat too. Swag is always a bonus!

I'm not promoting MP, it really depends on the individual and what you're trying to do with your photography. The only thing I can say with certainty is if you are actually building a photo business, don't think that you can do it solely by shooting for MP.

Edited on Feb 07, 2008 at 09:23 AM



Feb 07, 2008 at 09:22 AM
Scott Sewell
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p.2 #8 · MaxPreps.com


Randy, if you'll re-read my post I stated up front that "Everyone's gotta do what they believe is in their best interest". I also said that in my opinion the "shoot, upload, go to bed, earn 80%" is not a good approach for someone who is trying to run a photography business.

Interestingly enough, I think you even helped make my point in saying that newer sports photogs "aren't going to learn the business skills shooting for MP...". That was my point. Hey, we so often see threads about the very basics of the business side of photography here for a reason.

To take this a step further, I'm really not convinced MP is really a good idea for new shooters who don't have much experience. Sure, it might get them into venues they might not otherwise get into, but the requirements for strobed football and basketball, seem to stump many (as we see on these very forums). Again, if someone starting out wants to dive right in and figure this stuff out, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

If I were to consider adding MP to my photo business I would imagine I'd be making a post nearly identical to what Steve just said above. Again, I haven't persued MP at this point but for those who have and are making the most of it, more power to 'em!

Edited on Feb 07, 2008 at 10:17 AM



Feb 07, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Steve Ickes
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p.2 #9 · MaxPreps.com


One thing I did want to add is that there are always questions about obtaining credentials and field-level access. Most of those questions seemed to be asked by people just starting out. Not to sound harsh but before you ask, you should make sure you have the experience or at least technical skills necessary to shoot the event. I do get a bit concerned when I hear "how do I get credentialed?" quickly followed by "what lens would you recommend?" If you're at that stage then maybe your best bet is to convince another more experienced photographer to let you tag along and help or get more practice at the local youth sports level.

Shooting for MP or any media organization is about more than just image size and requirements. There's a reason these organizations want to see a diverse body of work before giving you a try-out. The photo editors at MP are very serious about their image requirements and do stick to them. They don't accept and post any galleries that don't meet those requirements.



Feb 07, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #10 · MaxPreps.com


It depends entirely on your current sales level & expenses compared to what your MP sales levels would be. You get 80% of sales but that is 80% of how much?

My expense is not 20% of gross per event (probably closer to 10%) so unless MP can increase my sales by 12% I'm better off on my own.

Right now I can walk into an event we covered in previous years and pretty much know what my gross sales will be. If MP can't get me that number plus 10 or 12 percent I don't see their value.

If you're starting out or just part-time it may make sense but then longer term does it make sense to build another franchise instead of your own business?

I can really see how this business model is attractive from MP's perspective though.



Feb 07, 2008 at 11:55 AM
frozenrope
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p.2 #11 · MaxPreps.com


Scott Sewell wrote:
Randy, if you'll re-read my post I stated up front that "Everyone's gotta do what they believe is in their best interest". I also said that in my opinion the "shoot, upload, go to bed, earn 80%" is not a good approach for someone who is trying to run a photography business.

Interestingly enough, I think you even helped make my point in saying that newer sports photogs . That was my point. Hey, we so often see threads about the very basics of the business side of photography here for a reason.

To take this a step further,
...Show more

Scott, I was essentially agreeing with your remark about not learning the business end shooting for MaxPreps. My basic disagreement with what you said was about learning the business then add MaxPreps if it suits you. If it suits you, I think adding MaxPreps at any time, including when you're just starting out making a business of shooting, is a good plan. It takes a while to build your clientele so supplementing with MaxPreps can be a big help. There's no assignments or shooting obligations with MaxPreps (with the exception of playoffs and tournament coverage) so you pick when you shoot and how often.

I shot as a hobby for a few years. Made a little money at it. Then when MaxPreps came along I decided to expand my hobby to include a bunch of schools and sports in my area. I still have a regular job that will take me a lot of shooting to replace the income, so I do this as a side business. I'm in SoCal where MaxPreps is the official CIF (HS sports governing body) Photographer, so there are a lot of opportunities for me. I can stop by any number of HS on my way home from work and shoot a game, upload it when I get home and I'm done. On the other hand, I am also shooting youth league stuff in my local area so I am working the business side of it now was well and have had to work through the learning curve (which never really ends IMO).

I agree that a shooter should have some reasonable experience before attempting MaxPreps as an option, but then I think they should before they attempt to make a business of shooting too. Regarding their shooting requirements, if a shooter doesn't want to strobe football, volleyball or basketball, don't shoot those sports under the MaxPreps banner. For me, I don't like the hassle of shooting night football in the HS dungeons so I look for smaller schools that play day games and shoot limited amounts during that season. In a big area like I live in, there are games going on somewhere in my normal traveling area almost every day of the week during baseball/softball and soccer seasons. So instead of messing with strobing basketball, I shoot boys and girls soccer which happens at the same time. Shooting for MP has lead to several other side jobs for me as well. At this point I am shooting as much as I have time for and in order to shoot more, I'd have to quite my other job or hire additional shooters or support staff, neither of which I am interested in doing at this time. I think most of the MP shooters I have talked to are in a similar boat.

Anyway, the main point I was trying to make is there is no need to wait until you've established your business and learned the business side of things before doing something like MP even if your plan is a full time business and not a side business like mine. It's a supplement that's all. Here, where MP is big, there is plenty of work available so it's an excellent option. It is also important to know that MP licenses images for you to ESPN, SI and Newspapers, exposure most shooters not working for a wire service would get, and at no time do you relinquish your property rights of your images.



Feb 07, 2008 at 12:06 PM
frozenrope
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p.2 #12 · MaxPreps.com


Mike Mahoney wrote:
If you're starting out or just part-time it may make sense but then longer term does it make sense to build another franchise instead of your own business?


It might. Some shooters are good at shooting and when it comes to the business side of things, not so good. Some shooters are happy shooting for someone else and not having to worry about the business side of things. It's the same in the photog business as it is in others. There are a lot of skilled workers that are not cut out to be managers or business owners.



Feb 07, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #13 · MaxPreps.com


frozenrope wrote:
There are a lot of skilled workers that are not cut out to be managers or business owners.


Yep .. oftentimes the 20% is well earned (he said as he searches for an invoice from last year for a team collage that was on a hard drive that was supposed to be backed up, but now appears to have been only partially backed-up).



Feb 07, 2008 at 12:25 PM
timgangloff
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p.2 #14 · MaxPreps.com


I am not a full time shooter, but do sell images on my smugmug page. I have not shot for Maxpreps before, but am considering it. With my smugmug account, they take a cut of my sales, but that covers my web space storage, credit card acceptance fees and other overhead costs and time. If you are a professional shooter and using printroom, smugmug, etc., how is that any different than Maxpreps deal? Isn't it really a question of time management?

If you are a pro and just have your own site, how do you account for your time in taking and completing orders, paying for you website, paying the credit card handling fees, handing bad checks and the like? Yes, I am sure you could save some money by doing it all yourself, but for a small operation, is that headache worth it? I don't know, just throwing out some questions.

Is there anything that prevents a Maxpreps shooter from selling images on Maxpreps and also on their own site and simply using Maxpreps as a way to further market your images. If you have already taken the images and posted them on your own site, there seems to be little additional overhead in uploading to Maxpreps and hoping for a few more sales and a chance at getting additional work.

Maybe I am missing something, but it seems like a decent deal. Anyway, just posing these questions out of curiousity



Feb 07, 2008 at 12:45 PM
frozenrope
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p.2 #15 · MaxPreps.com


Tim-
To answer your question, no there is nothing to prevent you from selling your images on your own site simultaneously. They used to require a 14 day delay but they no longer do that. In addition, you can now have a photographer profile in MaxPreps to promote you and your business/website.



Feb 07, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Carl Auer
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p.2 #16 · MaxPreps.com


MaxPreps is not an answer for everyone. For me, I run my own site. I booster shoot for one high school and I cover football, Boys Basketball, Girls Basketball, all levels. Freshman, JV, and Varsity, and post them to my site. But, I usually end up with a lot of shots of the other teams too, but as a booster shooter I do not want to post them on "my schools" site. I had been contacted a few times by MaxPreps, but never really was interested, but then they wanted me to shoot the kick off of high school football (Alaska starts a couple weeks before the rest of the US) and were going to pay me for that game. So, I shot it, got a front page shot for a couple weeks with a link to my web page, and I start posting shots from the varsity games and parents from the other schools started buying. Not a lot, but for each game, if I got two orders from MaxPreps, it was two orders I would not have had if I did not post those shots. But, besides that, MaxPreps has really pushed me to watch my shots, and improve my shooting. Their workflow for size requirements, and mandatory strobing of indoor events, noise reduction and overall quality of shots really make me concentrate more, and honestly, it is no more work than I was doing before joining them, other than setting up a gallery and uploading the photos.

I have two stories that have come from MaxPreps. This last season, a parent walked up to me and handed me a letter her son got from a Division 1 school, not a top 25 school, not even a top 50 school, but still a D1 school. It stated that they were very interested in having her son come down for a visit to their campus, etc etc, and that they had become aware of her son and other Alaska players after going through the photo galleries on MaxPreps, and the shot of her son blocking a field goal attempt was amazing and the wanted that type of energy on their team. As of yesterday he signed a letter of intent and has a 2 year scholarship to the school. Before that he was planning on staying in state because no schools, even DII schools were really interested in looking at Alaska players. Turns out 5 other seniors were also contacted by this and two other schools after seeing photos and stats on MaxPreps.

Second story is shorter, but our main football field (most schools use this for their home field) hosts 2 to 4 games a day. 2 on Fridays, up to 4 on Saturdays. Our school was playing the second of 4 games on a Saturday and I showed up in the 4th quarter of the 1st game, and I had parents coming up to me asking me why I was not shooting that game, that they bought photos from last weeks game, and were really disappointed that I was not at this game. They all but begged me to start shooting their games on a regular basis too. As I left, I had parents coming in from the 3 game asking me where I was going, that their game is just about to start. So, MaxPreps has given me exposure to more potential clients than if I was just posting to my personal site for my school. It also helps that Eagle River and Anchorage are "military towns" and when new families move up, I hear, "Oh, MaxPreps is here too? They are huge in California...." Which helps traffic on my galleries.

Would I shoot only for MaxPreps? Sure, if they gave me $100 a game plus 80% of all sales. I could easily pull in $600 for a weekend before sales, and over a 8 to 10 hour shooting time, that would be up to $75 per hour, plus 80% of all sales. Not bad. But they don't pay that. I get one, maybe two games a season that they pay me to shoot, the rest I rely on sales, and a majority of my sales, over 95%, comes from my website, but I will not turn down that other 5% at all.



Feb 07, 2008 at 01:17 PM
ScottSchupbach
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p.2 #17 · MaxPreps.com


I was contacted by Maxpreps and went ahead and submitted the requirements and was accepted.I just don't think there well known here in Michigan yet.
I do a lot of freelance work for a couple papers here and so I normally have access to a lot of local H.S. Sports.I also post work to my own site and would be glad to try and integrate them into what I already do.I may look into a little further this year.

Scott



Feb 07, 2008 at 05:52 PM
frozenrope
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p.2 #18 · MaxPreps.com


They are working to expand more and more into all markets in the US. As with anything else, it takes time to build the relationships with the schools and the sports authorities in each area. Once the coaches, ADs, athletes and their families realize what MP has to offer they are well received. It's a win win for the schools, the athletes and MaxPreps. The fact that they contacted you is a good indication of two things, they liked what they saw in your work and they are trying to make inroads into that area. It's a big undertaking without question but they are committed to making that happen.


Feb 07, 2008 at 06:07 PM
msauk
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p.2 #19 · MaxPreps.com


Yeah same here in Utah. Many coaches know about them and also the AD's as well. But parents really have no idea yet. I would like to see them maybe for next year get a deal with the schools here in Utah like they do in California.


Feb 07, 2008 at 09:05 PM
Marty Bingham
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p.2 #20 · MaxPreps.com


Call me paranoid but it seems like inviting competition into your market place.

I Glimpsed over their website a few months ago and decided I could live without them so I did not go into full research mode. I have way too much other stuff going on.

What happens when they get their foot in the door with the contacts you already have? The AD's and other school officials.Could they (Maxpreps) wind up calling the shots? The next thing you know you are like an employee shooting on their terms.

I will keep an eye out here for some of ya'lls insights.

Thanks,
Marty



Feb 07, 2008 at 09:58 PM
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