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Archive 2008 · MaxPreps.com

  
 
Steve Ickes
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p.7 #1 · MaxPreps.com


You're correct. Gather your facts first, get some feedback, possibly see some results. But you really cannot make a final decision based on what others do and say. You're also correct in that you're not going to go out and buy a 300mm f2.8 lens just to see if it works. What I did though when I was considering a 400mm f2.8 was to first ask around from others who had used the lens. Honestly didn't need to see galleries of images taken with the 400 because, well it is the web and most of those galleries are downsized JPEG's anyway. Ultimately when I decided that the 400mm was a serious consideration I did the only really logical thing . . . I rented one and shot an event with it. If I'm going to invest time, effort, and money into my business, I am not going to simply rely on word of mouth and some online images galleries. I am going to ultimately test it myself. For instance, when I'm comfortable with the state of the Mark III body and I'm ready to purchase, I will rent one first.

Don't need a lot of time or investment to give off camera, hotshoe remote flashes a try. Buy just one to start. One used flash, one low end stand, and a set of cheap remote triggers from eBay. All in all, less than a hundred dollars.

Personally I only used off camera hotshoe flashes briefly while I was still shooting Nikon. Nikon CLS system was/is awesome. Anyway I use Canon and Alienbees now. But again, there is enough stuff posted on the internet on this subject. Better yet, contact fellow SS member and Maxpreps photo editor Juliann Tallino. She uses Vivitars with eBay remotes, a couple of clamps, and homemade battery packs. Check out her SS gallery. I think she's updated with a bunch of awesome images using this setup. Take a look at her stuff and tell me that shooting high ISO with no flash is better.

Done beating this horse. Out.

Edited on Feb 14, 2008 at 01:32 PM



Feb 14, 2008 at 01:32 PM
bonnerkopf
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p.7 #2 · MaxPreps.com


john_a_g wrote:
Actually Steve - what I WROTE was I didn't like their restriction. So given that I would have to shoot with a method I didn't prefer, what was maxpreps going to bring to the table for me - that's all.

But, here's my point - it should be the quality of shot that counts - period. I still contend the majority of galleries I see that were shot with NON BOUNCED strobes is less than what I'm getting ambient - taking asside everything out there. I happen to agree with the other poster that the extreme light falloff in the
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Actually, in response to your claim, with due respect I don't find this shot very pleasing. The shutter speed has not frozen the action, and the picture is thus blurry. As well, the highlights are blown out. The colors are lovely and the action is good. However, I don't think it is a semi pro or pro quality shot. In this instance, strobes would have frozen the action. That being said, lots of great ambient are shot if the light is good enough, and the photographer is skilled enough with his settings.

I agree with you that direct flash really looks crappy and amateurish, most of the time, and bounced is much better.



Feb 14, 2008 at 01:47 PM
john_a_g
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p.7 #3 · MaxPreps.com


bonnerkopf wrote:
Actually, in response to your claim, with due respect I don't find this shot very pleasing. The shutter speed has not frozen the action, and the picture is thus blurry. As well, the highlights are blown out. The colors are lovely and the action is good. However, I don't think it is a semi pro or pro quality shot. In this instance, strobes would have frozen the action. That being said, lots of great ambient are shot if the light is good enough, and the photographer is skilled enough with his settings.

I agree with you that direct flash really looks
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That is absolutely a fair critique. I'll also say I see plenty of flash/strobe shots with ghosting - just as bad as motion blur. But you'll get no argument from me - I agree pro strobing looks great. It's the intermediate step of just using off camera direct flashes that I contend gets poor results.



Feb 14, 2008 at 01:52 PM
bonnerkopf
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p.7 #4 · MaxPreps.com


It is all about quality. Some ambients are great, some strobes are great. Some of both are crappy.

Bottom line is, maxpreps has certain guidelines and if people want to follow them, great. If they don't that is their choice.

I think this topic has not been beaten to death sufficiently.



Feb 14, 2008 at 01:56 PM
Carl Auer
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p.7 #5 · MaxPreps.com


John, do not get me wrong, I absolutely hate strobing games. I hate lugging an extra bag around, I hate having to get there very early to set up, test, and make adjustments prior to the games. I use two strobes, so I hate switching at half time if I am only shooting one school, and I hate tearing them down and then dragging them back out to my car, especially when it is -20 outside. I hate the fact that I have two bodies that will burn through 8 shots a second and I am stuck at 1fps because of the strobes. I hate making selects from 100-150 shots than 300-400. I hate being a split second early or late with my anticipation. I hate the fact that for some reason one of my receivers does not like to be close to a bluetooth device and will strobe over and over again until the bluetooth is far enough away.

But, what I do like, is the fact that when it comes down to it, direct or bounced, the images are so much cleaner at ISO 400 than at 800, 1600, 3200. Yes, there are shadows cast by direct strobing, which can be overcome if you get your strobes as high as possible. Bouncing does do one thing that not to many people realize. It will lengthen your flash duration. So, if your strobes are borderline, at say, 1/640th duration, which is fine for direct, but if you bounce them, that duration could go to 1/400th, 1/200th, even longer, depending how far your strobes are from the ceiling. That is one reason I stopped bouncing. Even though my strobes were 25-30 feet up, there was still 25-30 feet above them, and it was just enough to piss me off with the flash duration.

But, when a parent comes to me and wants to order 5 24x36 posters for the seniors, and without hessitation I can say, sure, no problem, because I know my shots are at ISO 400 and the blowups for these posters will be fine, but if they were at ISO 1600, even with noise ninja, or neat image, they are not going to look as good as I want them to.

As for your reoccuring questions in this thread:
What does MaxPreps bring to the table:
MaxPreps brings a lot to the table if you really dive in to it. They issue most of their shooters cards to hand out, polo shirts, hats, jackets to identify you as a MaxPreps shooter. So, they give you marketing stuff, for free, to help bring attention to their website and your shots. Over the years MP has worked with USAToday, ESPN the Magazine, Sports Illustrated and other publications both in print and online. So, if at the beginning of the season you shoot a game, post it to MaxPreps, and suddenly one of those kids you shot is selected as a McDonalds All-American, or turns into a most sought after recruit by division one schools, MaxPreps will shop your images to these publications. In fact, at the end of 2007, SI was contacting MaxPreps on a weekly basis to license images. These may not make it into the magazine, but they could end up on the website, SI for Kids, or other SI/CNN interests. So, they bring the possibility, more so than without them for most shooters, of national coverage for you and the schools you shoot. That is a great marketing tool for you if you are looking to contract with a school. "Yeah, last month Sports Illustrated licensed a photo a week from MaxPreps, so you never know..." But you also need to remember, MaxPreps is not a "shoot only for us and make millions" company. It is really meant as a supplement to what you are doing now. When I started out, I would only shoot football for them. This was back when there was a 2 week moratorium on anything posted to MaxPreps. I would shoot all the shots of my schools team that I needed, and as much of the other team that I could get. Post my teams shots to my website, where I knew there would be traffic, and posted the other team to MaxPreps. I did no marketing beyond giving their managers a handful of MaxPreps cards to give to the kids after the game. I ended up picking up a sale here and there, and while at first it was nothing to write home about, I started getting emails from schools requesting me to come shoot a game through MaxPreps. I would get emails from parents of these other schools who were over seas with the military thanking me for posting the shots since they were missing their kids games, and if it was not for MaxPreps, that traffic would never have occurred.

Just this week, I have shot 4 games over 2 nights. Prior to one game, I had an email request for me to shoot a game at a rival school, and at the varsity boys game Tuesday I had parents asking me if I would come to their school, that they loved my football, or I would here, "Cool, that MaxPreps guy is here." Then last night I had 3 parents from the visiting team come over and all but beg me to be their booster photographer. If the school was not 20 miles away, I just might have said yes, but all of that exposure was through MaxPreps, and all I did to gain it was wear a polo shirt with their name on it and hand some managers some cards.

And, as for cherry picking images, you are right, I did cherry pick those images I posted. I could easily of opened up my download folder and picked from the 200 shots from that game any number of perfectly exposed shots, but that would have included a perfectly exposed ref butt, or a soft image because I miss focused, or that lovely, why the heck did I think that would be worth shooting from that angle shot, or any number of junk files, or some of the not so fun to look at shots like sportraits, or huddles, or an inbound pass or whatever. But if you go into the MaxPreps galleries and look at the basketball shots, 99% of those are going to be with strobes, and probably 90% will be direct strobed, and of those at least 1/2 will be with a 2 flash set up, either Vivitars or Nikon SB whatevers. A majority of the MaxPrep shooters are SS members, and a majority of them are shooting 2 to 3 games a night at 2 to 3 different gyms, so being able to set up quickly and tear down quickly means using something that will give you good light and is small. You may not like the look, but, it is what they have found works, and honestly, from their rules on strobing basketball, and their workflow for crops, noise reduction and more, I truly believe has made me a better technical shooter.

Edited on Feb 14, 2008 at 03:24 PM



Feb 14, 2008 at 03:22 PM
mill4570
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p.7 #6 · MaxPreps.com


Carl,

Great post....

Richard K.



Feb 14, 2008 at 04:35 PM
dacop
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p.7 #7 · MaxPreps.com


Excellent post Carl!

I too am a Max shooter here in New Jersey. As you know they are very stick on what they will post and quality is everything. When I was first accepted by them two years ago, some of my galleries were refused. Frustrating to say the least, but as you shoot more and more for them you start to get a feel for what they are looking for. They have made me a much better shooter because of their requirements. You will not get rich shooting for them, but it certainly helps to promote your work. Max is well know here in NJ and I get all the media credentials I need throughout the year by working for them. If you have what it takes and have an understanding of what they look for in a photo, the benefits are endless.



Feb 22, 2008 at 10:57 PM
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