jwil wrote:
Dan, we are very close to saying the same thing. I see Canon moving to make the D200 irrelevant in the market by undercutting it with a sub $1300 10MP replacement for the 30D that does everything the D200 does for less, and by lowering the MSRP of the 5D to the $2500 range, making it twice the camera (figure of speech) for less than twice the price of the D200.
The upgrade path smooths out and the chasm between the top consumer and entry pro DSLRs drops to a range that many can comfortable jump. I agree completely that Canon appears to be moving to APS-C on the consumer end with EF-S and FF on the high end with L. The bridge segment is occupied by the 5D making it an interesting thing to watch.
I can't wait forPhotokina to see how accurate (or not) all of this is. ...Show more →
It seems to me that Canon have easy options to cruise past Nikon.
They have their 400D cheaper than the D80 with 10MP. if they put in a 1.3 sensor camera with say 13MP 5fps at around D200 prices, do-able if you look at the figures on the white paper, and a 16MP 4fps 5D replacement, wtih the pro body 1 series at 22MP and 8fps then Nikon will have an awful struggle to get anything comparable with their cramped 1.5 sensors to stay in touch - I would not fancy a D200 or D2X with more pixels.
they have already told EF-S lens buyers that they intend migrating all except the entry level to FF, so they can't really grumble if they do that by way of doing a 1.3 first - the EF-S lenses would not fit either that or FF.
However, Canon have said that they also intend to make 2007 the year of DR, so it looks like they will also be able to increase DR with the introduction of DIGIC III
and news sensors.
So I think that what we are seeing is Canon trying to put their best game-plan together to phase in those changes, and we now have the 400D with DIGIC II and the saame DR as previous sensors, so they may be delaying introducing the new DIGIC III and improvements for fear of affecting the high volume 400D end of the market in the run up to Xmas by people wating to go for the 40D or whatever it is called.
Regards,
DaveMart
Canon wiping the floor with Nikon is the last thing I want. Nikon making inroads into Canon is what I want to see - Canon dominates the maket and it knows it. It could do with bringing down to earth a little. Sony or Nikon releasing a FF camera would be the best thing. I really hope they do.
I just don't think Canon is making Cameras as well as it can, it's making Cameras as good as it has to. This doesn't make for value for us, the consumer.
Richie S wrote:
Canon wiping the floor with Nikon is the last thing I want. Nikon making inroads into Canon is what I want to see - Canon dominates the maket and it knows it. It could do with bringing down to earth a little. Sony or Nikon releasing a FF camera would be the best thing. I really hope they do.
I just don't think Canon is making Cameras as well as it can, it's making Cameras as good as it has to. This doesn't make for value for us, the consumer.
Hopefully Nikon has some tricks up theeir sleeve as well - it is just a bit easier to read Canon, as they give more info - and if it is not all total bull, they have made progress with their sensors.
Regards,
DaveMart
HeyLeeMR2 wrote:
When is more news from Photokinda expected to happen? You guys are telling me there is more to be revealed besides the 400D, 70-200, and 50 1.2?
Opinions vary. Canon at last Photokina showed the prosumer cams in August, then the pro 1DsII the week before Photokina.
There have been persistent rumours that Canon have delayed releasing the 1DsIII until next year though.
There was also supposed to be a 200/1.8 IS floating around - don't know if it got the go ahead - back at Christmas the guy who broke that Canon were making the 70-200/4 IS and the 50/1.2 said that they were thinking about a 200/1.8
There have even been some rumours of everything from a sports camera to a camera in-between the 30D and the 5D, but again all may have been delayed until 2007
Regards,
DaveMart
RdEoSg wrote:
Talked to our Canon rep who said there will be some more SD point and shoot style's released for photokina.. biiiig deal :P
I wouldn't mind a G7 myself - it will be nice if Canon have decided to carry on with this level of camera.
Regards,
DaveMart
The G6/Pro 1 are definentely due for an upgrade. I wouldn't be surprised to see that very soon. Maybe a consolidation into one model. Still excited for a 1dMkII N upgrade though.
jwil wrote:
I agree completely that Canon appears to be moving to APS-C on the consumer end with EF-S and FF on the high end with L. The bridge segment is occupied by the 5D making it an interesting thing to watch.
well, if that's the way that canon *is* going, then they're scheming to lock me out of future upgrade paths, cuz i have no intention of "upgrading" to FF and then buying the $4k of lenses i'll need to replace what no longer works and fill out the long end.
no way i'm giving up the ef-s 60mm macro and ef-s 17-55mm is.
Canon will retain 2 levels of APS-C cameras. That's what the market wants. They wouldn't have produced the 17-55/2.8 IS if they didn't have intentions of keeping something at the 30D level.
10DFT wrote:
Canon will retain 2 levels of APS-C cameras. That's what the market wants. They wouldn't have produced the 17-55/2.8 IS if they didn't have intentions of keeping something at the 30D level.
DaveMart wrote:
[
Hopefully Nikon has some tricks up theeir sleeve as well - it is just a bit easier to read Canon, as they give more info - and if it is not all total bull, they have made progress with their sensors.
Regards,
DaveMart
The progress is either Sony's or in processing. Since there is some difference between Sony and Nikon reported performance, I would say the processor is the difference.
Increased dynamic range or high ISO performance will require larger pixels. Canon currently has the advantage in this area. I would not be surprised if these improvements from use of the DIGIC III move the FF cameras into a higher level relative to 1.6 cameras.
joebee wrote:
The progress is either Sony's or in processing. Since there is some difference between Sony and Nikon reported performance, I would say the processor is the difference.
Increased dynamic range or high ISO performance will require larger pixels. Canon currently has the advantage in this area. I would not be surprised if these improvements from use of the DIGIC III move the FF cameras into a higher level relative to 1.6 cameras.
I assume that there is a typo there, and by the 'processor making the difference' you mena 'the processing making the difference'
Dunno if I agree with your other point, that improvements in DR and noise will need larger pixels.
The only way I can see the info (or misinformation?) from Canon working is if they are able to do something across the range - and in any case if they move the 1 series to 22MP it will only have the same size pixels as the 30D - the only one with really large pixels would be the 5D.
They seem to think that they can improve the fundamental sensitivity of the sensro - fantastic, if true.
My gguess is that the 400D will be thee last Canon to use DIGC II - that is a possible reason to delay other launches - they use the 400D to hoover up Christmas sales, but it is basically obsolete after they release DIGIC III sinc they can do better DR, and now have the bits, possibly using 14bit, to record it.
It's quite tricky getting the introduction of new technology right, and sorting out which model to introduce it in - Canon rarely debut new technology at the top of the range, testing it first in lower models, often at a level just above the medium level, some sort of EOS 3, so we may yet see something along those lines.
Regards,
DaveMart
I was wondering:
Lately in some Canon's pdf I've seen information that Canon is a major sponsor of Champion's League that is round the corner - September if memory serves.
So my guess is that new camera was already mentioned in this thread and I also don't care how they call it.
Sport shooters don't need 22 MPx
But I just hope to see some NEW, TOP GLASS.
This time only! doesn't have to be prime.
Noticed that BH is selling the MKIIn for $3484 under the PSAUG discount code. That's about the cheapest I've seen it from a source as reliable as BH. Makes me think something is about to happen in the 3-5k price range.
joebee wrote:
Increased dynamic range or high ISO performance will require larger pixels. Canon currently has the advantage in this area. I would not be surprised if these improvements from use of the DIGIC III move the FF cameras into a higher level relative to 1.6 cameras.
its almost always wrong to say something *must* be engineered only in one way. e.g. i could imagine increased dynamic range being done in software, much the same way as folks do it now (multiple exposures, over or under exposed by a few f-stops, blended in software), which could be done by having more pixels, sampled at different iso's. high iso performance requires increasing signal-to-noise, which can also be done by reducing noise, not just increasing signal.
i don't have a good picture of where "digic iii" fits in here. this doesn't refer to the sensor technology, right? all the p&s's now claim they use 'digic ii' like the grown-up cameras. doesn't this chip just do stuff like white balance, raw->jpeg, exposure, etc?
$3484 is still -ALOT- when you consider how much a used 1DII is.
if they were to drop something in that price range (again), it had better be a definite jump in features/technology, otherwise i don't see the point. I don't think the small price drop of the IIn is worth speculating a new product over though.
Finally, Canon has commited to APS-C sensors with a line of EF-S lenses. It would also not make sense to have them compatible with only 10% of their bodies (if you include both film and digital). I think it's safe to say the APS-C will be around for quite some time on the consumer end.
The senior Canon-Europe exec has said that all but the cheapest Canon DSLRs will have 24x36mm sensors in the near future, but that a totally "full-frame" lineup was much farther away.
I take this to mean that APS-C will remain in the Canon lineup as far into the future as Canon has made any actual plans. "All but the cheapest", IMO could well involve more than one simultaneously produced Rebel model, but certainly does not include a "professional-grade" camera.
I would be willing to lay money down that Canon will not introduce an under $2000 FF camera until 2008 at the earliest. Too many things need to come together to make that happen.
I would agree that the least expensive 24x36mm body is likely to be around $2500 for at least two more years, possibly four, with increased features and capabilities appearing on the camera at that price point over the course of that time.
