I'm suggesting that a 1.6 crop sensor is entry level, and there will be only one model featuring that sensor in the future. All other bodies at various price points will be full frame.
waddavi wrote:
Without the XXD's build quality, this is not a merge at all - and if for some silly reason it is, it's a downgrade at best. No idea what you're talking about.
If I had to put a price on the 70-200 f/4 L IS and the 50mm f/1.2 L it would be USD 1100/- for the 70-200 and USD 1900/- for the 50mm. Putting the 50mm out of reach for any budget minded photogs. I dont think canon would price them any lower, been disappointed with their lens pricing in the past and I am sure we will be disappointed with the pricing this time too.
matsuib wrote:
well, we'll know soon enough, if it's real. But the clasps to connect the hood are not on the main part of the barrel, as they would be for an extending focus system. If it extended, that would mean the hood would extend as well -- which they wouldn't do.
On a 85L, the clasps for the hood are not on the part of the lens that extends while focusing.
I'm not convinced that the clasp position is actually on the extendable group anyway - the picture isn't clear about this.
The dead give-away however is the focusing ring positioning. If it was inner focusing the ring would be more centrally mounted - like the 35mm f/1.4.
My impression is that there may not be a new 1 series camera this year. I hope I'm wrong. The super duper uber camera in Feb. for $10K may actually be real. Although I'm always skeptical about rumored big jumps in technology. The reason Canon may not want to do a 'tweener' this fall (22mp, 5fps) is to not "piss off" the pros who would regret buying the camera. Just a guess on my part as to why they would extend the two year product cycle. Certainly Canon is capable of making a good 22mp, 5fps unit.
Canon people seem to fear for their careers if they so much as blink when asked about unannounced products.
So my take is -
No new 1 series at photokina = big things in Feb.
1DsIII a week before phokina = business as usual
1DsIIn at photokina = big things in Feb.
The rebel at 10mb on a 1.6 crop is a cool extra camera for teles, at least.
wtlloyd wrote:
I'm suggesting that a 1.6 crop sensor is entry level, and there will be only one model featuring that sensor in the future. All other bodies at various price points will be full frame.
Canon would like to make fullframe available in as broad a line up as possible. This is publicly stated policy. It makes no sense for the 30D price point to merge with the Rebel line (I don't think you are saying that, but others are).
In a couple of years, I would not be surprised to see the 5D sensor in a 30D+ price point (maybe 3 or 400 dollars more). But I would expect there would still be a couple of 1.6 crop Rebels at lower prices points, such as below $500 and around $900. Maybe even three at $450, $700 and $950. Or maybe $450, $800, and $1100.
Nori wrote:
If I had to put a price on the 70-200 f/4 L IS and the 50mm f/1.2 L it would be USD 1100/- for the 70-200 and USD 1900/- for the 50mm. Putting the 50mm out of reach for any budget minded photogs. I dont think canon would price them any lower, been disappointed with their lens pricing in the past and I am sure we will be disappointed with the pricing this time too.
I believe that a large majority of Canon pros in the world do not use 1 series bodies or mostly L lenses. I believe Canon will continue to push the high end higher, as it is targeted at high income pros and high income individuals.
I'm not a pro, but I don't think I could justify a 35L, 50L and 85L. Too many really expensive lenses in the same area - that's about $5k in glass. I'm guessing on FF, I won't use the 35L that much so it may go in favor of the 50L. It depends on A. it's real and B. how much better it is than the 50 1.4. In the 50 and 85 focal lengths, the much cheaper alternatives both have USM and are pretty darn good. the 35 2.0 is OK, but I don't know if I could stand the focusing motor or the 5 blade bohek.
The previous link can't be right. They are saying it's full frame.
Edited by Schlotkins on Aug 23, 2006 at 10:21 AM GMT
I wouldnt be surprised if canon still came out with a super-duper-dSLR (for a new flagship model) at photokina or at least in february, although that seems like a ways off now. Someone mentioned something a while back that made alot of sense...consumer dSLR buyers will base their opinions of a company on the company's top stuff in alot of situations. So if canon makes some crazy 22mp FF 6fps camera, that will bump canon up into an arena where it soars above all its competition, making the company seem more on top of things. does that make sense? it seems like it does.
Edited by thebeginning on Aug 23, 2006 at 09:21 AM GMT
Nori wrote:
If I had to put a price on the 70-200 f/4 L IS and the 50mm f/1.2 L it would be USD 1100/- for the 70-200 and USD 1900/- for the 50mm. Putting the 50mm out of reach for any budget minded photogs. I dont think canon would price them any lower, been disappointed with their lens pricing in the past and I am sure we will be disappointed with the pricing this time too.
i doubt it, doubling the price of the f/4 just because of IS is not reasonable, it has to compete with the 2.8 non-IS
the 50 probably sounds about right tho... unfortunately..i assume though that the design will be simpler than the 85L, and therefore cheaper.. maybe 1500?
I wonder if Canon does release the 400D and 70-200 f/4 IS, how it is going to affect Sales of the 30D and the 70-200 f/2.8 (And even the f/2.8 IS).
I know that the 30D has a better build quality, but im shure many will settle for the "Lesser" 400D with higher MP and anti dust system.
Also with the 70-200 f/4 IS, Im shure it would be smaller and lighter then the f/2.8 version (And much more then the f/2.8 IS). But I bet that Canon will price the f/4 IS near the price of the f/2.8 non IS, just like the 24-105 IS is priced very close to the 24-70 f/2.8.
A 400D which looks like a 350D in many ways with full frame is a little pointless. I'm sure the lower end of the market isn't too concerned with FF and the glass needed for FF isn't really lower end stuff. People would buy a FF camera then be hugely disappointed when they stick the budget glass on it. Plus the EF-S lenses won't work.
EllitoGuy wrote:
i doubt it, doubling the price of the f/4 just because of IS is not reasonable, it has to compete with the 2.8 non-IS
the 50 probably sounds about right tho... unfortunately..i assume though that the design will be simpler than the 85L, and therefore cheaper.. maybe 1500?
Just adding an IS group alone would degrade sharpness compared to the existing 70-200/4. So which do you want - a higher priced IS lens near the quality of the existing lens, of a lower priced IS zoom that is less sharp than it's non-IS brother?
I thin it will be $1000-$1100
Edited by dcmiller on Aug 23, 2006 at 09:32 AM GMT
I could justify spending $1200...we'll see. I'd probably end up getting somethiing like the 24L, the 50L, and the 135L for my 'trinity'. the 35 and 85 are too close to justify, and i already have the 85 1.8.
Canon need to be careful with the premium they charge for IS now, with some other makers essntially 'giving it away' in the body. Ok, it's maybe not as effective, but you're not paying an additional $400 for every lens you buy with it on.
I'm still expecting a 21-22 MP 1Ds3 at Photokina in September, but maybe not announced tomorrow. I don't think an f/1.2 lens is very legendary these days, so I don't think that is the legend presaged a month ago. An XTi with the right feature set could be it (an extra 2 MP is not legendary).
However, a top of the line professional camera with radically new technology would fit the bill, so maybe they will announce something like that. A marketing campaign could be built around a Digic 3 and other improvements. Canon has said that 2007 will be the year of greater dynamic range. Even if a few top-line cameras ship in late 2006, 2007 could still be "the year".
Canon has traditionally introduced its top-line pro model at Photokina on a two year cycle. Other models go on an 18 month cycle. The two year cycle fits for the longer R&D required for cutting edge technology.
Canon's model naming scheme is in serious disrepair. If they have model names starting with a letter, then they can sequentially increment numbers for new models, which makes it easier to market. It took me a while to realize that the few the number of digits meant higher grade. Also, adding an 's' and then adding a second designator like 'II' and possibly another 'n' is nuts.
I would suggest something like EA-1 for a new model (too late, marketing materials would be already in production) top of the line merged full-frame and 1.3 crop camera, possibly with a less expensive brother EA-1b or , to be followed in two years by an EA-2, etc. For the 5D price point (2,000 to 4,000 dollars) use something like ED-1. For the $1200 to $2000 price point, use EF or ES. For the 1.6 crop Rebel line, use EZ, of course!
Richie S wrote:
Canon need to be careful with the premium they charge for IS now, with some other makers essntially 'giving it away' in the body. Ok, it's maybe not as effective, but you're not paying an additional $400 for every lens you buy with it on.
That is true, and a complicated "equation" for Canon
