For those of you who read the nikon board as well, you may have heard already that I got a sneak peak at the D200 last night from Nikon. The camera is a mini-D2X in many respects. I had the opportunity to work with this camera for a few hours, and take quite a few pictures with it. Unfortunately, I did not have my own CF card with me to take home some samples. I gotta say folks, this new camera is very impressive. Nikon has more than one upped the 20D (they had over a year to do so...). Although we all know that a new 20D is in the works, Canon is going to have to jump through some hoops to get the quality up to par with Nikon. I'm a bit worried that Canon will fall short on their replacement camera. Maybe the time has come that Canon will release a model that is not too far from Nikon, rather than doing the usual leap frog. At the price point of the future 20D, they really can't up the features/build too much, or they will start stepping on the toes of the 5D at twice the price. This will be a very interesting next couple of months.
Thanks for the heads-up. That D200 is looking more like a target for a digital version of the EOS 3 with the 20D replacement slotting in to the digital EOS 30 position.
Don't know where that leaves the EOS 5D though!
I wouldn't be surprised to see an EOS 3D continue with the 1.3x sensor and 1-series build and user interface when the 1-series is likely unified down the track.
I have heard of this "mythical" 3D for nearly 3 years now , what in the world does it mean?
Ben
It will be good to see some images from real shooters out in the field , test shots are fine , but it will be a treat to see just how this camera performs
There isn't going to be another camera with 1.3x sensor. Get over it.
You'll be forced to buy a full frame camera and crop it to 1.3x yourself. I'm sure somebody will make a 1.3x viewfinder screen and if you're lucky a firmware hack to crop the image so you are never forced to see the extra unwanted pixels that people hate so much.
Ben Horne wrote:
The camera is a mini-D2X in many respects. I had the opportunity to work with this camera for a few hours, and take quite a few pictures with it. Unfortunately, I did not have my own CF card with me to take home some samples. I gotta say folks, this new camera is very impressive. Nikon has more than one upped the 20D (they had over a year to do so...). Although we all know that a new 20D is in the works, Canon is going to have to jump through some hoops to get the quality up to par with Nikon....Show more →
For those of us that aren't really Nikonphiles keeping up with their board, yet wouldn't completely rule out switching from 20D to D200... what exactly does this camera has going for it that puts it so far ahead of the 20D?
FPS
VF
100K shutter (likely far more) and very dampened as well
weathersealing
better grip
same control layout as the pro body (D2x)
10.5MP
the best metering also on the D2x
spot meter
very rigid magnesium frame
better AF, better low light EV sensitivity
Nikon "look" to the images , ergonomics and brain dead easy flash system
this is no "incremental" , "upgrade" , this camera changes Everything about the expectations in the prosumer gap , well in fact there is no gap really at least in the Nikon world
Good stuff John -- the FPS is the same but I see from nikon's site that lag and blackout is somewhat quicker, the RAW buffer is nearly four times the size, and the metering (especially that for spot and flash) sounds intriguing too. I'm not even going to speculate on the AF.
I guess switching will come down to how well Canon answers this salvo with the 20Dn (my safe bet on the name for this spring's new model) and/or whether I'm really willing to spend $3300 on a 24x36. Like Ben says, it's going to be interesting.
Edited by Steve_T90 on Dec 12, 2005 at 10:41 PM GMT
I wouldn't be surprised to see Canon leave the 20D in place (with a slightly lower price) and insert a new camera above the 20D priced at or slightly higher than the D200. I would not venture a guess as to what the new camera would offer but since the design and manufacturing costs have already been paid for, it would make sense for them to leave the 20D to compete with (kill) Nikon's lower priced offerings. This would give them bodies across a wide spectrum of price points with only one real area of competition to contend with. One could obviously argue that the D2x competes with the Series 1 bodies but at that level many other factors are coming into play in the purchase decision with conversion and "new" sales making up a very small percentage of a very small market. Going to be interesting times and I think we will all benefit from whatever happens.
i got to play with one at the shop today--it is very nice. in fact, for most shooting it would just about be perfect. the weather seals, build quality, sensor appear to be great for the traveling photojournalist. It won't be much of a sports camera due to its 5fps, but if i were taking a trip, it would be great--and i could almost get two for the price of a 5d. if it really delivers reliability and iso performance, it might be a winner. my bet is the 5D drops in price and a 30D or something comes out close to it in spec. the problem (which i love) is that many of us who shoot professionally are going to have much cheaper and capable bodies to use. fact is for most PJ (paper, mag) you don't want files that are too big and 10-13 mega pixs are about the perfect balance of download/storage versus adequate mag print quality. fashion and fine art will always want more, but I can't imagine downloading 1000 20 meg raw files from a football game. btw, no surprise, there was a long pre-order list at this shop.
Everyone has known about the D200 coming out for some time now. Surely, Canon would have known what was coming down the road from rumors. The problem as Ben stated is that the successor to the 20D cannot step on the sales of the 5D. Most likely the 20D successor will be a 1.6x crop, but with all of the short comings from the 20D fixed. That may compete with the D200, but Canon will be set at different price points. If Canon can drop the MSRP of the 20D successor under $1400 and 5D under $2500, then both of these DSLRs will be well placed.
It could be that the 5D is really a niche DSLR for those who really need FF and might be quickly replaced by Aug/Sep of next year.
What we all need is a digital version of the film EOS 3. Canon has not disappointed in the past, and I don't expect them to again.
i'm in the market for my first dslr and originally i was going to buy a 20d but d200 changed all that. here's my post about it. i wonder if it's worth waiting.
Well in the film world the EOS 5 was replaced with the EOS 3, so hopfully the EOS 5D will be replaced with a digital EOS 3D mmm Full frame digital EOS 3D with 45 point AF and weather sealing all at a affordable price!!
The weak link on the D200 (like the D2X) is dynamic range. Start googling D200 and you'll come across various reports complaining about the DR. High ISO also compromises detail. The D200 looks very nice to me, but without improvements in those two areas, it's not for me.
As for the 5D, I expect it to have a life span about equal to the D60. For its price point, it lacks features. Once Canon updates the 1Ds2, I think a 5D2 will follow very quickly. Or, Canon will drop the 5D price significantly with rebates.
The prices on the 5D have fallen alot in the last few months, I've seen a few Australian ebay stores selling 5D's for about $4100-$4200 (Au) When the 5D came out the price was $5000+ (Au) so thats a $900(Au) price drop in a few months! Can't wait till March.....
I bet in 30 Days we will hear about the new "20D" or whatever they call it. They will give Nikon a few weeks to revel in the glory of the new D200 and then Canon will do what they always do and steal Nikons Thunder.
Isn't the 5D the digital version of the EOS 3. I mean the features are quite similar. So what is this new 3D that everyone's talking about.
I tried out the D200 as well and was quite impressed by it. They definitely have given canon some competition now. But knowing canon, which has proven itself as the OEM who can deliver cheaper/better camera's, I am sure a competing version should hit the stores shortly to put nikon back in it's place. Still have not quite figured out why nikon does not have a full frame D-SLR. Then again, they don't make their own sensors either.
pascal03 wrote:
Isn't the 5D the digital version of the EOS 3. I mean the features are quite similar. So what is this new 3D that everyone's talking about.
All you have to do is go look at the film line up of Canon cameras. They still exist although many live in a digital world without knowledge of the film world. Before digital, the companies had film cameras and they are the ground work to today's digital cameras. There is a 1 series film camera, and right below it there is the EOS 3 camera. Check it out on B&H to see what it is all about.
Nikon has certainly upped the ante and raised the bar. There is no way that the 20D or it's replacement can compete with the D200. No way. Canon will just have to step on the toes of 5D owners and come up with a completely new model with the same price point as the D200 but with a better feature set ... and that's a tall order!
Competition is good anyway and the price of DSLR will continue to plummet. I am sure the sub-$2,000 FF DSLR will appear sooner rather than later, as that is the only card that Canon can play IMO, and it would not surprise me at all if Nikon is already planning on a FF body too. And about time.
So where does this leave the D2X? Is Nikon shooting themselves in the foot? What can the D2X do that the D200 can't and how do you justify the price gap between these 2 models? Who will buy the D2X now?
