pascal03 wrote:
Isn't the 5D the digital version of the EOS 3. I mean the features are quite similar. So what is this new 3D that everyone's talking about.
The EOS 3 is far more advanced than the 5D (Feature and build quality wise) Think of it as being a mini 1 Series camera.
The EOS 3 had weather sealing, 45 point AF (With eye control), fast shutter speed (Faster with the powerdrive booster) as some notiable features.
If the 5D was a film camera it woulden't even come close! So a digital EOS 3D is welcomed by alot of Canon shooters.
I doubt that the 20D's replacement will even attempt to compete with the D200 - it's too expensive. I think it's more likely that the 20D's replacement will have upgrades similar to what we're seeing in the 5D - slightly improved AF, larger buffer, etc. - and will come down in price a bit, leaving a slot for a more fully-fledged baby 1 Series.
I would like to see a smaller version of the EOS 1D.
I still like the idea of the in built grip, Just make the camera smaller in size.
When the 5D rumours where out, and there were pics floating around there was a pic of a "EOS 2D" or something similar, it was smaller than the 1D Mk II but still had the in built grip, It looked cool and thats what I would like to see in the next 1 series camera!
jph1 wrote:
The interesting thing to me is that Nikon looked like they were heading towards a CMOS future with the D2x, yet this new camera is CCD.
Jim
Personally I think it is fantastic that it IS a CCD , I prefer the look of the images from a CCD . They are the mainstay of medium format digital, and we shall see what it really is capable of once the camera gets into some good shooters hands
bobbytan wrote:
So where does this leave the D2X? Is Nikon shooting themselves in the foot? What can the D2X do that the D200 can't and how do you justify the price gap between these 2 models? Who will buy the D2X now?
hey Bobby
really it boils down to sheer performance , having the high speed crop mode on the D2x gives it 8fps, also the motor in the camera to drive focus for the D series lenses is Much stronger. Lastly the AF sensitivity is much greater in the D200 , there are 11 sensors in the D2x 9 of which are the cross type sensor, in th D200 there are 9 sensors only one of which is a cross type. So the advanced amatuer may never need more than this but a working pro probably will
The D2X has a CMOS sensor and the D200 has a Sony CCD sensor. It remains to be seen which is better when shooting ISO 800 or lower. The D200 could eat in to some of the sales of the D2X. You could get two D200 for the price of D2X.
The D200 will definitely hurt Canon's DSLR sales and Canon cannot do anything that steps on the 5D. The only thing that will happen is a reduction in prices.
rsg_1 wrote:
The D200 will definitely hurt Canon's DSLR sales and Canon cannot do anything that steps on the 5D. The only thing that will happen is a reduction in prices.
Yes they can! The people who bought the 5D are generally not interested in the sorts of features that we see on the D200, like high FPS and weather sealing. If that were a priority to that clientele, they would be looking at 1D Mark II's or 1D Mark IIn's rather than the 5D. The fact of the matter is that the 5D attacks a market segment that requires or is otherwise obsessed with the idea of 1.0x sensors (insert FF argument here, i.e using lenses as they were intended, etc. etc.). If Canon were to release an intelligent D200 competitor in the 1.6x or 1.3x market at a lower price point than the 5D, they could still do it without affecting seriously the 5D market. What they really can't do in any short time is introduce a full-frame mini-EOS at a sub-$3000 price point, because that would make it appear that they were bilking customers for the FF sensor in the 5D.
I don't know anything about the D2X but I am pretty sure that whatever it can do that the D200 cannot do, it is not enough to justify it's high price. Having said that, Canon did exactly the same thing when they brought out the 5D. It became a no-brainer for those who were sitting on the fence on the 1Ds2.
But I am happy that this is happening, as it's great for us all. We are getting some really good DSLRs now and they are getting more and more affordable. I can't wait to see Canon's response to the D200 ... and I am not talking about the 20D's replacement but a totally new DSLR.
Bobby
jmcfadden wrote:
hey Bobby
really it boils down to sheer performance , having the high speed crop mode on the D2x gives it 8fps, also the motor in the camera to drive focus for the D series lenses is Much stronger. Lastly the AF sensitivity is much greater in the D200 , there are 11 sensors in the D2x 9 of which are the cross type sensor, in th D200 there are 9 sensors only one of which is a cross type. So the advanced amatuer may never need more than this but a working pro probably will
Man, if "weathersealing" is inexpensive to build into a new camera, it's gotta be at the top of marketing dept's must-have list. The way people go gaga over something that is absent in most lenses, is too scary to put into practice for many (including "prosumers"), and can often just as well be replaced by a ten-cent plastic bag, is really something.
bobbytan wrote:
I don't know anything about the D2X but I am pretty sure that whatever it can do that the D200 cannot do, it is not enough to justify it's high price. Having said that, Canon did exactly the same thing when they brought out the 5D. It became a no-brainer for those who were sitting on the fence on the 1Ds2.
Uh... That's just ridiculous. If you need that functionality, it's worth it. If you're a penny pinching amateur, it may not care - but many pros wouldn't have it any other way.
rsg_1 wrote:
The D200 will definitely hurt Canon's DSLR sales and Canon cannot do anything that steps on the 5D. The only thing that will happen is a reduction in prices.
If Canon released a body with exactly the same specs as the D200 it wouldn't step on the 5D. That leaves pleanty of room for the release of a 20d upgrade to compete with the D200.
Adding a spot meter, weather sealing and a couple of megapixels to the 20d would put it right in line with the D200. It can conceivably be done for a market price under that of the d200 as well.
Time will tell, but I doubt we'll see much of a swing in market share for either company any time soon... certainly not before the world finds out what Canon's next move is.
The D200 doesn't represent any type of technology that Canon is not capable of producing. Unless Nikon can demonstrate the ability to do something that Canon can't even do, we're not going to see any swings.
That being said, the D200 looks like a heck of a tool that will make a lot of D50 or D70 users very happy.
Steve_T90 wrote:
The way people go gaga over something that is absent in most lenses, is too scary to put into practice for many (including "prosumers"), and can often just as well be replaced by a ten-cent plastic bag, is really something.
I dropped my camera into the ocean at one point, and started shooting with it 5 minutes later. A ten cent plastic bag would be hard pressed to give me that kind of certainty or user comfort. As it stands, I don't fear to use the weather sealed Canon bodies in torrential downpours; I can use the lens with a hood, and still look through the VF to see what's happening, as opposed to peering through a foggy plastic bag.
Even if you are too scared to use it, it's nonetheless a feature, and a valuable one when done well.
D200 has got many things I wanted, spot metering, built quality, ISO in view finder, weather sealing, without vertical grip, built in flash, (seems to be) good view finder, not too expensive price tag,,, But there is one problem. It's got the wrong mount!!!! I want to use EF lenses!!
When I made the jump from film to digital earlier this year, if the D200 was out and even though I had Canon glass, I probably would have jumped on it simply because of its rugged body and bigger VF.
Canon is concentrating on the "film". Within the next few years they will have high quality full frame sensors in all of their cameras, except for the cheapest. They do this by having the best sensor technology at affordable prices.
Nikon's apparent strategy, as far as I can tell, is to add lots and lots of features to cameras with small sensors.
So Canon's objective is to make full frame sensors at lower prices. Nikon's objective is to make small sensors at higher prices.
This is not a bad situation at all. The competition gives people more choices.
lordarka wrote:
Yes they can! The people who bought the 5D are generally not interested in the sorts of features that we see on the D200
Exactly right, Arka. I never use the burst mode and very rarely use AF. My 4x5 and 6x7 cameras don't have AF or a motor drive, either. But I love looking through that big viewfinder and I love the small size and awesome image quality. One thing I do care about is RAW buffer depth and the 5D is quite sufficient in this area. I really wanted a gripless 1-series but the 5D will do the trick for now.
There WAS an EOS 3D by all accounts but it didn't make it into production as the market had moved on and overtaken the feature set by the time it reached pre-production stage - or so I'm told (some people outside Canon did get to handle it)..
Not to say that there will not be another 3D equivalent though!
Canon will go eventually to a merged 1 series line, a 'budget' FF (5D =) and the consumer lines (20D and 350D =) will be 1.6x - in the immediate future anyway; the mythical 3D would fit nicely in there...............
I see this happening in 2006 (based on three hours of sleep after 5 days of 18 hour work days.
Entry Level DSLR
3000D/Digital Rebel Light - 6mp, single frame advance, no RAW. True point and shooter's jump to DSLR. Sub $500 with lens kit (18-55 and 55-200mm)
Amature DSLR
Rebel Xt - No change, maybe $100 price drop
Advanced Amature DSLR
30D - 10mp, larger buffer that would blow the D200 or anything else away, very low ISO noise at all settings, ISO 50-3200 with expansion. Wireless IR remote finally, same focus set up as 5D, 5 fps, and I bet still no ISO in viewfinder. Maybe a spot meter, but I doubt it. $200 price drop from the list MSRP of the 20D.
Entry Pro Full Frame DSLR
5D - No change other than possible price drop
Pro DSLR's
EOS 3D
Take a 1D series and remove the vertical grip. 12mp full frame. 5fps, 8fps with optional power grip (same amout of shots with two batteries in grip as without grip and one battery, or double the amount at 5fps). 45 focus points, spot meter, call it a 1DmkII with full frame and grip or no grip option. Now the kicker. ECF. Yup, Eye control focus. All 45 points.
1DmkII and 1DsMkII - no change for 2006 but in 2007 expect a EOS 1DVI (VI as in roman numeral 6, 1d was I, 1Ds was II, 1D mkII was III, 1DsMkII was IIII, MkIIn was V). Full frame, 8fps, 18mp, and all the favorite features from the 1D and 1Ds bodies plus ECF.
I fully expect to see the next version of the XXD series to be close to the D200 at about $500-700 less and the 5D droping in price. A 3D introducing ECF will be the new (To DSLR's) that will be the next shoe to hit the features list. I would not even be suprised if they start releasing upgrades to the 5D and 20D with the ECF option. Can you say 6D/6De and 30D/30De?
