The question should be posed otherwise: is a 45 point AF system + weathersealing worth 4000 EUR/USD? Because that's what Canon charges extra for a 1DsmkII (allright you get some extra pixels and some other stuff as well). When you look at this like that, this camera is a steal.
And the value of FF is very high to me. There is not one f1/2.8 zoom lens with a usefull focal range for a APS-C camera (for my type of photography).
With FF, my lenses become what they were designed to be
Just reading the specs, Its buffer is up to 60 Jpeg or 17 RAW Files compared to the 20D's 23 Jpeg or 6 RAW, and thats with a Full framed sensor and larger file size too!
And at last a Spot meter is included!
The view finder still looks tiny though.....
What disappoints me is the new grip. I was hoping it to be more like the PB-E2 for EOS-1V &-3. The current digicam grips feel a bit flimsy and you can't remove batteries if you have a QR plate attached.
Otherwise the 5D looks like a camera that I could buy next. It's not cheap, but I like WA and 16-35 and other really wide lenses are not that cheap either.
So I'll be saving my cents for now and wait for the price to come down (as well as some real experiences) and shoot with 10D (and EOS-3 for WA stuff)
EOS20 wrote:
And at last a Spot meter is included!
The view finder still looks tiny though.....
Actually, judging by the size and height of the 'hump' behind the lens where the viewfinder is situated, it seems that the 5D has a pentaprism similar to the one found on the 1D mark II and 1Ds Mark II. That, and the absence of the pop-up flash, indicates to me that the camera has a respectable viewfinder. As such, based on these specs, the 5D looks to be a fantastic camera. If there were a weather sealing option, I would buy one the day it came out. As it stands, I think I'll wait for user reports to see if the cost justifies the performance.
While I agree that there are usability perks associated with the 1-series that are hard to give up, I hardly find this latest release to be even remotely disappointing. If anything, I hope that Canon does unify the interfaces of all of its cameras someday, ala Nikon. Nonetheless, Canon has given two groups of very vocal users exactly what they want; a 'tweener' camera between the 20D and the 1D mark II, and an affordable full frame. To complain that the camera doesn't offer this or that only justifies the conclusions of many who say that, on the internet, it's impossible to satisfy anyone.
Laika wrote:
What disappoints me is the new grip. I was hoping it to be more like the PB-E2 for EOS-1V &-3. The current digicam grips feel a bit flimsy and you can't remove batteries if you have a QR plate attached.
One of the things I absolutely love about this camera is that it looks to deliver most of the EOS-1's features without the requisite EOS-1 bulk. The grip-optional camera is one that I have been wanting for a while, and this looks like a huge step towards giving users real choices without exacting substantial compromises. It also validates my initial assertions in this debate that it would be, in fact, possible to manufacture a full frame camera with a spot meter in a smaller chassis, if Canon engineers were given such a mandate.
stevei wrote:
In what way is the 1Ds II not the all-round professional camera that you think is needed? Why would anyone have expected the 5D to improve on the 1Ds II while being far cheaper? I guess some people won't be happy till they can have a 1 series build quality FF 22MP 8fps camera for $1k. For everyone else, the 5D seems like a great camera at a great price. And if you want 45pt AF, weather sealing etc, then Canon already has the right camera for you.
the 1Ds Mk II is an all-around professional camera. By saying that the 5D is a niche product, I mean that the people who are upset by the fact that it's got 9pt AF and a slow frame rate need to take it for what it is.
lordarka wrote: One of the things I absolutely love about this camera is that it looks to deliver most of the EOS-1's features without the requisite EOS-1 bulk. The grip-optional camera is one that I have been wanting for a while, and this looks like a huge step towards giving users real choices without exacting substantial compromises. It also validates my initial assertions in this debate that it would be, in fact, possible to manufacture a full frame camera with a spot meter in a smaller chassis, if Canon engineers were given such a mandate.
Arka C.
Totally agree! There are many advantages to the 1-series format - more solid feel, stands up better to harsh environments, dust protection, etc, etc. But, given various shooting styles, having the option to go light can be a very big advantage. If you read about NG photographers, many like the smaller cameras for certain styles of shooting - esspecially mixing in with people. I think they know what they're doing
Dan1 wrote:
If Canon's claims about increased dynamic range and lower noise due to the larger pixels are true, that alone would justify the price in my eyes.
"The sensor’s 35.8mm
x 23.9mm size means that each pixel can be a generous 8.2μm, resulting in exceptionally low shadow noise. The sensor’s low power consumption extends battery life and also lowers noise. A finer CMOS production process and optimized photodiode construction increase the light-sensitive area of eachpixel and improve dynamic range as well."
krieves wrote:
The 5D doesn't excite me. The build is supposed to be similar to my 20D and the small increase (25%) in resolution isn't enough to justify the cost. Granted, it does have some additional features, IMHO it's still not worth the cost of the upgrade.
I think the 1dmkII-n is more of what I want in a camera. However, there's no way I can pony up that much cash right now.
I don't think so. I think the build will feel better. The camera is also a bit heavier than the 20D. I imagine it to be close to the 1V in feeling, looking at the picture. Also the resolution increase is not 25% but 50%! Makes big pixels with low noise and large dynamic range. Add a big and bright viewfinder (pentaprism) and you got a wonderful DSLR. And it is NOT an upgrade to the 20D! It's a totally different league.
As with other releases (20D, 350D etc), there'll be two camps about the new camera bodies - those that think it'll be the best thing since sliced bread, and others that are disappointed that the new camera STILL won't be the "dream" body that they were hoping for.
While I don't doubt that the 5D is the "dream" of many members here, I can't help but agree with the OP that the 5D is a disappointment. For some, FF is the be all and end all of image quality. For me, a fast, correct autofocus is more important and I don't believe that this camera is a significant improvement over a 20D in that respect. Further, the cost is far to high for me to consider purchasing. Another thread here was asking where people here get their money, and all I can say is that here in the UK, the salaries are lower and cost of living higher, so disposable income is smaller than that in the US. £2500 for a body only is not "affordable" for me, nor for many other amateurs on this board.
Finally, I agree with Gibbonx that a 10mm lens on a 20D gives a very similar image to that from a 16mm lens on a 1Ds/5D. FOV is the same and if resized to the same image size, you probably wont' pick the difference. I would have much preferred a 'tweener body that catered for EF-S lenses, now that most of us have spent the money on buying the lenses. As it stands, I'll now have to wait for the 30D, and if that is still not much of an upgrade to the 20D, then the prices of used 1DII's will be at an "affordable level".
Its really strange to me how things we cant afford become "bad" or "disapointments"
I cant buy the new corvette but am I "disapointed" with it ? Nope, just cant buy one. Would it be even better if it was $20,000? of course, but I dont dislike the car, just dont care for the price
Would the 5D be better if it was $1500 ? of course. Whats weird is people dont not just dislike the price, but dislike the camera as well.
Strange to me because the camera doesnt change its specs, only the price changes and yet if its cheaper suddenly its attractive to people
lordarka wrote:
One of the things I absolutely love about this camera is that it looks to deliver most of the EOS-1's features without the requisite EOS-1 bulk. The grip-optional camera is one that I have been wanting for a while, and this looks like a huge step towards giving users real choices without exacting substantial compromises. It also validates my initial assertions in this debate that it would be, in fact, possible to manufacture a full frame camera with a spot meter in a smaller chassis, if Canon engineers were given such a mandate.
Arka C.
Hi Arca,
I remember a few months ago, there was a poll on FM about the need for an integrated grip, for a camera to look/feel pro... and you and I posted about how much we loved the size of the 20D, and longed for a full frame version some day... and we were pooh poohed like crazy, with comments like "Canon will never release a FF in a prosumer form factor", etc....
Well, looks like we got our wish! (Now, I just have to sell a kidney...)
To be honest, I can see a lot of justification for considering the 5D to be in reality a 20Ds.
5D is to 20D what 1Ds mkII is to 1D mkII - a higher resolution fullframe bigger brother at double the price, but otherwise essentially the same camera.
The spot metering is there because there's most likely a perception that pros won't buy one without it (and no doubt Canon will market the 5D as a cheaper pro body - hence the 5D numbering as well), and the AF "helper" points are probably there as a reaction to feedback about the 20D's diamond AF point layout (which I must admit I don't particularly like).
Are there any massive holes in that logic? (I'm sure there probably are )
steve_t wrote:
Do we even have a spec for the D200? Any indication that it's even going to be a noticable improvement on the 20D? What's the point of saying you're going to buy a camera that doesn't exist outside of the development lab, needs a whole different set of lenses and there's no actual evidence of improvement over Canon's current range?
one rumor on D200 said
12MP
3FPS
1.5X CROP
I TRULY don't see what the big deal will be for another 1) high-MP, 2) lowish-FPS, and 3)small sensor crop camera from Nikon. And 1) + 3) = noise: haven't anyone at Nikon learned from D2X?
nsbca wrote:
And where can I find this 10mm prime?
I was talking about the wide end of wide angle zooms 10mm = EFs10-22mm, 16mm = EF 16-35mm L
The Big Bad wrote:
Its really strange to me how things we cant afford become "bad" or "disapointments"
I cant buy the new corvette but am I "disapointed" with it ? Nope, just cant buy one. Would it be even better if it was $20,000? of course, but I dont dislike the car, just dont care for the price
Would the 5D be better if it was $1500 ? of course. Whats weird is people dont not just dislike the price, but dislike the camera as well.
Strange to me because the camera doesnt change its specs, only the price changes and yet if its cheaper suddenly its attractive to people...Show more →
That's true. Most people look for value for money compared to (a) improved features over their current body and (b) how much these features cost on top the cost of their current model.
For me, (a) the features aren't improved enough over a 20D to be worth buying (no integrated grip, 15pt AF c.f. 45pt AF in 1 series, 3.5fps which is less than both 20D and 1DII) and (b) at £1500 or so more than a 20D, I can pick up a 100-400 IS and EFs10-22 for the same cost of an "upgrade", and to be honest, I'd rather buy the glass.
