highdesertmesa wrote:
I’m just saying focus confirmation for manually focusing is an artificial limitation since focus confirmation already exists for autofocus.
Exists WHERE? Where in the stack? Because Leica doesn't build/control every layer of it. Even if the chip vendor supports a feature, it may not be exposed via an SDK in a useful way.
old-gregg wrote:
Exists WHERE? Where in the stack? Because Leica doesn't build/control every layer of it. Even if the chip vendor supports a feature, it may not be exposed via an SDK in a useful way.
If that's how the processor+SDK are designed (only events, no polling), there's no way for them to get confirmation in manual focus mode.
[EDIT] Couldn't figure out the code-formatting, but hopefully you get the idea.
As a counterpoint, consider the Nikon e.g. ZR : with manual focus chipped Voigtländer Z lenses, the green focus confirmation refreshes with every live-view sensor read. As the camera to subject distance changes the status updates - no explicit calling of an AF routine.
In that case it functions more like a service loop or state machine regularly reading the sensor; likely also returning, out of the processor ASIC, a pointer to a structure that includes PD pixel detection information, focus confirmation flag, as well as the pixels to pass to the LCD etc.
old-gregg wrote:
Exists WHERE? Where in the stack? Because Leica doesn't build/control every layer of it. Even if the chip vendor supports a feature, it may not be exposed via an SDK in a useful way.
If that's how the processor+SDK are designed (only events, no polling), there's no way for them to get confirmation in manual focus mode.
[EDIT] Couldn't figure out the code-formatting, but hopefully you get the idea.
I think I get what you’re saying. In any case, us Leica users are likely at the mercy of Panasonic here. We don’t get the feature until the LUMIX cameras do.
Note that the Nikon system is using the PDAF elements on the sensor to generate the focus confirmation. I don't think anyone is doing this without the PDAF elements and Leica doesn't have that on the M11 or M EV1. Even on a Sony A7CR which has the sensor for this, you don't get any manual focus confirmation.
bcaslis wrote:
Note that the Nikon system is using the PDAF elements on the sensor to generate the focus confirmation. I don't think anyone is doing this without the PDAF elements and Leica doesn't have that on the M11 or M EV1. Even on a Sony A7CR which has the sensor for this, you don't get any manual focus confirmation.
Yeah, that part is definitely a given. The real question moving forward is whether Leica will consider using a PDAF-capable sensor on a future M body (or M EV2) to make this type of focus confirmation possible. If they ever take that leap, it would completely transform the manual focus experience for the M system!
RoamingScott wrote:
And then the M is just another EVF-having, PDAF-assisted MF camera with no special sauce. What a boring future.
Fair enough, Scott! Though with the M EV1 already out there, Leica has already crossed that bridge...
I'm definitely not advocating to ditch the mechanical rangefinder patch on the core M line and personally I'm not a fan of the EV1 as it stands. But if Leica is going to offer dedicated EVF bodies or Visoflex accessories anyway, they might as well make the electronic manual focus experience as fast and intuitive as possible, after all manual focus is their forte.
Probably already said, but with the EV1 I do not use FP and instead use 10x magnification and I have no trouble at all nailing focus with any lens from 21mm to 280 R lenses.
As for focus patches on an RF camera, having reacquired the M10R I find the focus batch is now batter than the M11's I just disposed of. I mean it is clearer. This makes me miss the M11P way less than I had imagined.
stgrove wrote:
with the EV1 I do not use FP and instead use 10x magnification and I have no trouble at all nailing focus with any lens from 21mm to 280 R lenses.
You actually focus without any issues at 280mm without IBIS using 10x magnification? Hats off to you for having such a steady hand. You must easily be able to shoot handheld for a full second without any camera shake. I found focusing under those kinds of conditions extremely annoying even at just 50mm.
Nifty Fifty wrote:
You actually focus without any issues at 280mm without IBIS using 10x magnification? Hats off to you!
I found focusing under those conditions extremely annoying even at just 50mm.
Indeed. BTW, I just compared the M11 + Visoflex, i.e. very close to an EV-1 with a Sony A7r V, both with a M-Mount 90mm.
The Sony has a better viewfinder, IBIS, better MF aids (and is not the best camera for this) and offer the option of AF with the LM-EA9.
I see no point in focusing a 280mm without IBIS. In fact, I hardly see the point of not using AF with such a lens today. You will get better pictures out of any camera, micro43, APS or FF with IBIS, AF and even a entry-level zoom.
Nifty Fifty wrote:
You actually focus without any issues at 280mm without IBIS using 10x magnification? Hats off to you for having such a steady hand. You must easily be able to shoot handheld for a full second without any camera shake. I found focusing under those kinds of conditions extremely annoying even at just 50mm.
I did not say when out to 280mm I focus with my hands. Common sense tells me to use a tripod. That said I can focus the R 180/3.4 and the R 180/2.8 handheld without issue.
"Better pictures" is totally personal. I like the character of the R 105-280.
I'm hoping that Sony adds MF confirmation to the a7rc via firmware or maybe newer model in a7c series. Sony mount is smaller and allows for smaller cameras and overall setups than the ZF. I like MF confirmation but the ZF to me is so bulky that it really takes away from the shooting experience of M mount lenses.
That being said, I spent sometime on the M11 again today after using the Q2 and ZF primarily for past couple of weeks. The RF patch really is just such an engaging experience even though its technically more difficult. No moving MF selection area. Just being smart about focusing distances, leaning on muscle memory with lenses, and working the patch. MF confirmation is easier for sure but it has you gazing into a screen and thinking along the x and y axis instead of looking at a scene all at once and 3 dimensionally.
zhangyue wrote:
Over priced or not, it depends on if it sells. Apparently, Leica is running deal on the camera and lens right now, so looks like it is over priced.
True to the deal running with 50/1.4 and 35/1.4. When we think about it one body and one lens $15k or $16k. Are we nuts?
Yes, over the top for anything M not just the EV1.
Leica has many times put SL lenses and body combinations on sale too.
Yeh, SLx run promotion year long, that means SLx also “overpriced”.
I admit It is not very scientific, but over priced or not, the tipping point is when demand meet supply.
stgrove wrote:
True to the deal running with 50/1.4 and 35/1.4. When we think about it one body and one lens $15k or $16k. Are we nuts?
Yes, over the top for anything M not just the EV1.
Leica has many times put SL lenses and body combinations on sale too.
zhangyue wrote:
Yeh, SLx run promotion year long, that means SLx also “overpriced”.
I admit It is not very scientific, but over priced or not, the tipping point is when demand meet supply.
The Leica SL series is actually the best price for the quality to get in the Leica environment since a while. Especially used versions can be obtained for really good deals IMO. The SL series was never a great seller, but Leica committed to the L-alliance which keeps the SL series alive. The issue with the SL series is twofold - first, significant competition with other MLC producing brands (which are still a lot less expensive than Leica SL). Second, the bulkier SL body - Leica is measured in terms of compactness, one reason why the Q- and M-series are so good sellers. The Leica SL never hit this box. Therefore the question to get something like the EV-1 M has always been discussed. IMO Leica did late but finally the right move with the EV-1 M - just that its price is much too high to be even closely justified even in Leica terms.
