tzhang4284 wrote:
None of the top tier Sony, Sigma, canon and Nikon lenses with linear af motors are particularly small.
Sony 28-60 is top-tier in performance (see Fred's review), is extra small especially for a zoom, weighs 167g, and has a linear motor. Focus is blindingly fast and silent, I might add.
If anything this cheapened the brand. Leica isn’t giving people their prized product for engagement. They’re giving influencers factory tours and then the influencers upload videos defending their product price points. They’re showcasing photogs whose work is well regarded in their galleries across the world, publishing videos of said events, then hiring those same photogs to interview their product officers or create marketing content for camera and lens launches. I may not be articulating it well but it is not the same as Hasselblad’s approach.
johnvanr wrote:
But then Hasselblad sent tons of kits to YouTubers, many of whom now keep shooting with it.
RomanMF wrote:
Wouldn't the real strength of Leica's optical supremacy be them designing lenses that are of similar size to their competitors that perform better? If your lenses have to be mini-telescopes to narrowly outperform your competitors, are you actually better at lens design than them? Or do people believe they've just hit a wall with physics?
Leica's latest (new) precision glass molding (PGM) technology was applied first to the M 35mm Noctilux and then to the new L Summilux 50mm. This new technology apparently allows them to build more compact lenses than before. I assume that they will continue to launch new lenses with PGM, e.g., an M 50mm Noctilux and an L 35mm Summilux.
It's hard to know what approach works better without access to real numbers - sales, costs, PR budgets, etc. But Leica is working from a well established understanding of quality and lux (for better or worse). Their PR seems oriented to cementing that image, reinforcing it. Not saying it's all delightful to see, but they are trying to impress deep pockets that this is the quality object/tool they need.
Hasselblad has a different mission, it seems. To convince people that this format and system is THE way to go, that it has both the depth, the capacity, and the ease of use that they might not otherwise be including in their photo gear hunt. Theirs is one of convincing people of the MF advantage but also usability. It's subtly different.
As to what is working better between these two, again, hard to tell without numbers. But it's not all bad to have two high end leading players active in the marketplace. Could be worse.
RomanMF wrote:
If anything this cheapened the brand. Leica isn’t giving people their prized product for engagement. They’re giving people factory tours and then they upload videos defending their product price points. They’re showcasing photogs whose work is well regarded in their galleries across the world, shooting videos of it, then hiring those photos to interview their product officers and create marketing content for the brand. I may not be articulating it well but it is not the same as Hasselblad’s approach.
SrMi wrote:
Leica's latest (new) precision glass molding (PGM) technology was applied first to the M 35mm Noctilux and then to the new L Summilux 50mm. This new technology apparently allows them to build more compact lenses than before. I assume that they will continue to launch new lenses with PGM, e.g., an M 50mm Noctilux and an L 35mm Summilux.
If there was any doubt on the forums about the next chapter of the Leica SL system w/ regards to size and performance "a picture is worth a thousand words". And it certainly seems like the "new" precision glass molding (PGM) technology could be a big part of the next chapter for the SL system. Interestingly, I recently read a comment about the new Summiulux-SL 50 asph might be considered an M lens with AF.
SlowDriver wrote:
Yes, it is the video that a few people already posted, the interview with the SL product manager.
Even though it is an entirely new design, the reference lens was the 50mm M Lux. They modeled its behavior after that lens.
Finally Leica M lenses with native Leica AF! Seems like a winner approach to me. We shall see. I wonder how this new SL Summiulux-SL 50 II might look and perform attached to the tiny form factor Panasonic S9 😉😉
P.S. Is the referenced video "Why Did Leica Make The SL3-P?" w/ JayMoxias
LBJ2 wrote:
Finally Leica M lenses with native Leica AF! Seems like a winner approach to me. We shall see. I wonder how this new SL Summiulux-SL 50 II might look and perform attached to the tiny form factor Panasonic S9 😉😉
P.S. Is the referenced video "Why Did Leica Make The SL3-P?" w/ JayMoxias
LBJ2 wrote:
Finally Leica M lenses with native Leica AF! Seems like a winner approach to me. We shall see. I wonder how this new SL Summiulux-SL 50 II might look and perform attached to the tiny form factor Panasonic S9 😉😉
The weight difference between the 50 Lux M and the new 50 Lux SL is 247g which is more acceptable I feel given the AF motor, weather sealing and better build quality of the 50 Lux SL.
About the S9, I would give it a try, but without an EVF...
SlowDriver wrote:
The weight difference between the 50 Lux M and the new 50 Lux SL is 247g which is more acceptable I feel given the AF motor, weather sealing and better build quality of the 50 Lux SL.
About the S9, I would give it a try, but without an EVF...
By the time the S9 transforms into a tiny Leica SL variant, I think it will have an EVF and a proper mechanical shutter 😁
RomanMF wrote:
If anything this cheapened the brand. Leica isn’t giving people their prized product for engagement. They’re giving people factory tours and then they upload videos defending their product price points. They’re showcasing photogs whose work is well regarded in their galleries across the world, shooting videos of it, then hiring those photos to interview their product officers and create marketing content for the brand. I may not be articulating it well but it is not the same as Hasselblad’s approach.
I'll add/modify this thought...
I completely agree that when camera companies pay for a collection of "influential" photographers to attend a meeting/unveiling, give their cameras away... or provide an infinite "loaner," it absolutely dilutes the ethos of the brand. If the camera cannot stand on its own without give-aways, then it suggests something about the confidence in the camera. Both Leica and Hasselblad sell their cameras at a cost that is significantly greater than their competition. Having owned the X1D, X1Dii, X2D.. all purchased used.. I definitely resented the fact these bodies are given to YouTube personalities for nothing more than reviewing their products.
However, the counter point that I would like to make relates to the photographers who receive these products for free. With few exceptions, these YouTubers are great personalities, they have appealing made for video faces, they talk a good game, but very few of them are what I'd call good photographers. While they are competent photographers, much of the work presented lacks artistry, insight, a strong visual appeal, a unique perspective, or something that distinguishes their work from "better than average" to breath-taking. Personally, I watch the videos for entertainment but I rarely find anything they say to be inspirational.
One exception in the Leica "influencer" world is Alan Schaller. His work is exceptional and unique, but as for the regulars who are constantly thrown in front of the camera to offer their "unfiltered and honest review," I'm not impressed and take their words with a heavy grain of salt.
As for the SL3-P it is a $6000 plus camera, it is competent, but in 18 months it will be available used for $3500 to $4500. While it still will not be as good as the better performing R5 (mk1), Sony A1, or Nikon Z8, one could acquire the SL3-P as a good enough body that has (arguably) better color science straight out of camera, and Leica's very very good UI.
I guess my point... be wary of the huckster who gets to play with expensive gear for free.
LBJ2 wrote:
If there was any doubt on the forums about the next chapter of the Leica SL system w/ regards to size and performance "a picture is worth a thousand words". And it certainly seems like the "new" precision glass molding (PGM) technology could be a big part of the next chapter for the SL system. Interestingly, I recently read a comment about the new Summiulux-SL 50 asph might be considered an M lens with AF.
The evolution of the Leica SL 50mm prime:
This image is nuts! Look at how much smaller those lenses has gotten!
rscheffler wrote:
I thought the base ISO of the second gain stage should be cleaner with more DR than the last roughly one stop ISO of the first gain stage. I.e. if the first stage is 100-320 and second stage is 400-∞, 400 would be as clean as ~200. This is what the Photons to Photos site's DR graphs seem to imply. I.e. with the S1RII, ISO 400 has comparable DR to ISO 160.
Knowing this, one would then avoid the 'in between' ISOs between first stage base ISO and second stage base ISO as they offer no DR advantages. With the dual-gain camera I use, I'd like an option to disable those in-between ISOs...
I'd be curious the dating of the SL = Spiegellos explanation. I think it would be the logical explanation for the system's naming back when the SL was initially released and the S system still existed.
Now that the S system is no more, I agree with Kent that S in SL could equally reference the passing of the technical design goals of the S system to the SL system. A passing of the torch so to say. I was going to suggest this in my previous comment but didn't......Show more →
Yes, interesting article but does appear to be an older piece.
Here is another February '26 article that talks about Leica "SL" used to stand for Selective Light
"In 2025, the “Leica 100” celebrations crossed the globe, recognizing the first one hundred years since Leica production cameras were introduced to the market. With the focus on this centennial year, another major Leica milestone quietly slipped by, the 10th anniversary of the release of the modern, mirrorless, digital Leica SL system. Introduced on October 15, 2015, as Leica’s next generation technology, the Leica SL system has a much deeper heritage than just the last ten years of digital excellence.
Introduced in 1964 as a response to photographers seeking a more contemporary reflex-style camera from Leitz, the original Leicaflex film camera marked a decisive departure from Leica’s iconic rangefinders. Four years later, Leica refined this direction with the Leicaflex SL, developed under the direction of Heinrich Broschke, Werner Holle, and Werner Wiessner at Ernst Leitz Optische Werke in Wetzlar. The “SL” designation stood for Selective Light, referencing a new through-the-lens metering system that enabled more accurate, light-sensitive exposures. This innovation was not merely technical. It fundamentally changed how photographers engaged with light through the viewfinder, shaping a new way of seeing and visualizing photographs. The concept reached its ultimate expression with the more advanced Leicaflex SL2 in 1974. Nearly half a century later, when Leica introduced the digital SL system, it revived this Selective Light lineage, translating the same emphasis on clarity, precision, and visual immersion into a modern electronic viewfinder experience. Whether film or digital, Selective Light systems have had a profound influence on my creative life for more than thirty years."
LBJ2 wrote:
If there was any doubt on the forums about the next chapter of the Leica SL system w/ regards to size and performance "a picture is worth a thousand words". And it certainly seems like the "new" precision glass molding (PGM) technology could be a big part of the next chapter for the SL system. Interestingly, I recently read a comment about the new Summiulux-SL 50 asph might be considered an M lens with AF.
RomanMF wrote:
This image is nuts! Look at how much smaller those lenses has gotten!
The only progression is from the largest to the smallest: 50 SL Lux v1 to v2. The two in the middle are different lenses for different purposes. The image of all four lenses doesn’t represent an evolution even if such a change in mindset toward smaller lenses is taking place at Leica.
The rapid take up of compacts, high end FLCs and phone imaging has shown people how enjoyable small photographic equipment can be. Especially in the West and Japan, where small camera sales are booming.
We see the same increase in attention to small lenses in the cine world with Zeiss, Leitz and Cooke all releasing new small, light ranges. It crosses many niches, travel, casual, run and gun, street, parties, events, etc.
In fact, the slow realisation at Canon and Nikon (2012-2018) that mirrorless was the future had a lot to do with their belief that such cameras were toys, and the market really wanted large heavy cameras and lenses. 'What exactly are the advantages of DSLR sized gear?' became the question to ask, aa more and more people found the bandwagon forging the future.
Leica management to their designers might have gone this way: 'we know you can build these great lenses, now make them small.'
Where do you store all these cameras and lenses?!
.
I have a toy cupboard with a dehumidifier.
I’ll have a lot less by the end of the year. It’s mostly decided what to keep and what to not. Already got rid of all my S gear. Pentax is next.
Gordon
p.s. I wat told by Leica at the original SL launch that SL was a cross between the original SL name homage and “S” Light, a smaller S system with the best optics they had. CL was for Compact Light.
Camera is in hand although my 300-600 won’t arrive for a few more days. So side by side testing will have to wait.
I can confirm blackout free shooting although there’s a very slight stutter between frames at the higher burst rates related to read out speeds. AF seems speedy as long as you use a fast af lens. For now I’m limited to the 60-600 and 500 mm Sigmas. Plus a few newer Leica badged lenses.
Still no EFCS but for general shooting I’ll likely be in electronic shutter mostly.
OwlsEyes wrote:
One exception in the Leica "influencer" world is Alan Schaller. His work is exceptional and unique, but as for the regulars who are constantly thrown in front of the camera to offer their "unfiltered and honest review," I'm not impressed and take their words with a heavy grain of salt.
cheers,
bruce
i don't understand this logic; if anything i trust Alan Schaller less. He's a Leica Ambassador for crying out loud...he will always hold back on his criticisms of the brand. take his Leica YT video...i find it cringey.
i also find him overrated, IMO. i'm not saying he's not good at what he does, but i don't find him as good as most of his followers/fans say.
dalegaspi wrote:
i don't understand this logic; if anything i trust Alan Schaller less. He's a Leica Ambassador for crying out loud...he will always hold back on his criticisms of the brand. take his Leica YT video...i find it cringey.
i also find him overrated, IMO. i'm not saying he's not good at what he does, but i don't find him as good as most of his followers/fans say.
