p.4 #1 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Everyone "looking forward to improved photo equipment" with regard to Fujifilm AF has either adapted to using what they have or moved to another brand. That doesn't mean they won't want better AF from Fujifilm.
I'm just starting with Fuji, so am not knowing the whole history. Have you been waiting 5-8 years or like that?
Nikon, Canon, and Sony view the APS-C as entry level so are very limited in lenses and bodies, mostly cheaply stuff. Fuji has a whole system built around APS-C. I'm trying to replace 10-12 YO APS-C DSLRs. So far Fuji is looking better than the other options, AF notwithstanding.
p.4 #2 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gyoung143 wrote:
For the avoidance of doubt, the situations where it falls short are most likely af-c tracking of fast moving items, probably 0,1% of the photos taken with Fuji cameras, and most seem happy with Xh2s performance, it is unrealistic to expect that level of performance in smaller, lighter and cheaper bodies.
The 'issues' you go on about seem to be focus beyond infinity, which I don't believe is an issue unless the focus locks there, which brings us to your second hobby horse, lack of locking focus on af-s, in I quote 'certain situations', which you see reluct to specify so we can see where the problem lies. I don't experience that issue, unless there are reasons, typically items in the focus box at more than one plane of possible focus. Sometimes the ca,era chooses the plane I don't want. That happens with my Nikons too, always has, and I don't considerit a 'fault' merely something to adaptmy technique to avoid. Last week I tried it out to see of I could reproduce your issue, 100-400 @ 400 so problems immediately obvious, fill the focus box with a flat brick wall opposite, locks focus every time out f about 20-30 tries, no problems. Focus distance indicator was absurdly inaccurate, reading about 7m instead of 30, but it was absolutely consistent.
There are two ther forums I know about, DP review which I haven't bothered with fot years as debate is generally un intelligent, and Fuji X, where I can't remember a single discussion asserting major AF issues.
Gerry...Show more →
"reluctant to specify" I have provided detailed description of both issues, the AF-S inconsistencies and the focus beyond infinity, and provide guidance how to test yourself. But it seems you rather don't.
p.4 #3 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Nielk Mike wrote:
"reluctant to specify" I have provided detailed description of both issues, the AF-S inconsistencies and the focus beyond infinity, and provide guidance how to test yourself. But it seems you rather don't.
I don't recall that, could you give me a link please?
p.4 #7 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Nielk Mike wrote:
Don't really care whom you are replying to - if I think it needs a comment, I comment. If you want a personal communication, use PMs.
For the love of God, this is now three replies from you to posts that had nothing to do with your issue and which were not directed to you!
And, no, I most definitely am NOT interested in a PM exchange with you on a subject I wasn't posting about.
When I bought my Xpro2 one of the first lenses I got was the 14mm, and it is a favourite. I immediately noticed the erratic readings of the distance indicator. This puzzled me as it didn't corelate to actual results, where the focus plane was actually where I put it. So I did some tests, when used in af-s indeed the focus scale is totally unreliable and inconsistent, but the actual focus point seemed to be exactly where I put it, consistently, and use over 8 years has confirmed it. It seems better with longer focal lengths but as I discovered the other day at 400mm its consistent but inaccurate. Tests on manual focus with the 14 were more encouraging, and I often use the scale for manual hyperfocal point focus at f/8 for views, and with the 23mm too. If in doubt I also use Bbf as it's done at full aperture, and neither 14 nor 23 seem to have any focus shift.
In short, I suggest you have jumped to the wrong conclusion, it's the focus scale which is inaccurate (and could usefully be improved) not the actual AF.
There are other reasons why af-s might be inaccurate, the most frequent one is sloppy use, with items in the focus box at more than one distance, the camera cannot know your intentions as to which item you want sharp, it's more or less pot luck which is chosen, usually the most contrast. I am not suggesting uhou are guilty of that but it is a common error.
p.4 #10 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gyoung143 wrote:
When I bought my Xpro2 one of the first lenses I got was the 14mm, and it is a favourite. I immediately noticed the erratic readings of the distance indicator. This puzzled me as it didn't corelate to actual results, where the focus plane was actually where I put it. So I did some tests, when used in af-s indeed the focus scale is totally unreliable and inconsistent, but the actual focus point seemed to be exactly where I put it, consistently, and use over 8 years has confirmed it. It seems better with longer focal lengths but as I discovered the other day at 400mm its consistent but inaccurate. Tests on manual focus with the 14 were more encouraging, and I often use the scale for manual hyperfocal point focus at f/8 for views, and with the 23mm too. If in doubt I also use Bbf as it's done at full aperture, and neither 14 nor 23 seem to have any focus shift.
In short, I suggest you have jumped to the wrong conclusion, it's the focus scale which is inaccurate (and could usefully be improved) not the actual AF.
There are other reasons why af-s might be inaccurate, the most frequent one is sloppy use, with items in the focus box at more than one distance, the camera cannot know your intentions as to which item you want sharp, it's more or less pot luck which is chosen, usually the most contrast. I am not suggesting uhou are guilty of that but it is a common error.
Perhaps two years ago when this same bugaboo ("focus beyond infinity") was the subject of one of the many other threads that have veered off track onto this subject, I did a series of tests with the 14mm f/2.8 lens and with the 27mm f/2.8 — after reading from the usual source that the "problem" afflicted wide angle lenses.
I could find no evidence of this problem at all. (I photographed several series of scenes multiple times looking for the infamous inconsistent focus, even picking scenes with potential problems such as the inclusion of subject at a range of distances that the camera might have a hard time picking from.
I went back and forth on this with that poster — yes, he's in this thread again, too — and finally just gave up interacting with him over this obsession. (It is a shame, since he is right about certain issue in other posts I've seen here, but this continuing obsession does not help his reputation, I'm afraid.)
To folks who think there's a problem: Fine. For the rest of is, don't you think that if there was some real-world, consistent, significant, and specific problem like this that it would have been picked up by all or most Fujifilm users by now?
p.4 #11 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Perhaps two years ago when this same bugaboo ("focus beyond infinity") was the subject of one of the many other threads that have veered off track onto this subject, I did a series of tests with the 14mm lens and with the 27mm f/2.8 — after reading from the usual source that the "problem" afflicted wide angle lenses.
I could find no evidence of this problem at all. (I photographed several series of scenes multiple times looking for the infamous inconsistent focus, even picking scenes with potential problems such as the inclusion of subject at a range of distances that the camera might have a hard time picking from.
I went back and forth on this with that poster — yes, he's in this thread again, too — and finally just gave up interacting with him over this obsession. (It is a shame, since he is right about certain issue in other posts I've seen here, but this continuing obsession does not help his reputation, I'm afraid.)
To folks who think there's a problem: Fine. For the rest of is, don't you think that if there was some real-world, consistent, significant, and specific problem like this that it would have been picked up by all or most Fujifilm users by now?...Show more →
There was another long thread about 14mm af-s inaccuracy, the poster's example was a building, his focus box was half full of sky, and he used f/16. He wouldn't have it that it was an unreasonable, unrealistic example. I have no idea why Fuji uses stopped down AF with lenses that don't have focus shift but at least we have the option of BBF which uses full aperture. AF is pretty superfluous most of the time with such wideangles anyway.
Sony when I had it did full aperture AF, but there was a furore over the thoroughly unremarkable kit 28-70 which had so much focus shift (among its other 'virtues') they did firmware update to force stopped down AF to give some hope of a sharp picture.
p.4 #12 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gdanmitchell wrote:
For the love of God, this is now three replies from you to posts that had nothing to do with your issue and which were not directed to you!
And, no, I most definitely am NOT interested in a PM exchange with you on a subject I wasn't posting about.
Jeez...
Neither am I. Never said that I want you to PM me. But I will comment on your posts if I agree or not agree with their content.
p.4 #13 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Perhaps two years ago when this same bugaboo ("focus beyond infinity") was the subject of one of the many other threads that have veered off track onto this subject, I did a series of tests with the 14mm lens and with the 27mm f/2.8 — after reading from the usual source that the "problem" afflicted wide angle lenses.
I could find no evidence of this problem at all. (I photographed several series of scenes multiple times looking for the infamous inconsistent focus, even picking scenes with potential problems such as the inclusion of subject at a range of distances that the camera might have a hard time picking from.
I went back and forth on this with that poster — yes, he's in this thread again, too — and finally just gave up interacting with him over this obsession. (It is a shame, since he is right about certain issue in other posts I've seen here, but this continuing obsession does not help his reputation, I'm afraid.)
To folks who think there's a problem: Fine. For the rest of is, don't you think that if there was some real-world, consistent, significant, and specific problem like this that it would have been picked up by all or most Fujifilm users by now?...Show more →
No need to worry about my reputation. You can easily trigger focus beyond infinity with most lenses and all Fuji bodies. It shows as an overall slight softness with nothing in critical focus (neither near nor far). Using the Distance Limiter Function solves the issue but requires that all lenses one owns have infinity focus at the infinity mark. Doesn't work with zooms as I think there is none in the Fuji line that is par-focal.
p.4 #14 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Nielk Mike wrote:
No need to worry about my reputation. You can easily trigger focus beyond infinity with most lenses and all Fuji bodies. It shows as an overall slight softness with nothing in critical focus (neither near nor far). Using the Distance Limiter Function solves the issue but requires that all lenses one owns have infinity focus at the infinity mark. Doesn't work with zooms as I think there is none in the Fuji line that is par-focal.
Indeed you can, and even with adapted manual focus if the adapter isn't accurate, but so? Even my two native X mount manual focus wide anglescan do it (9mm Laowa and 12mm Samyang).
So what, I've never had it lock focus beyond infinity? Why is it a problem?
p.4 #17 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
gyoung143 wrote:
There was another long thread about 14mm af-s inaccuracy, the poster's example was a building, his focus box was half full of sky, and he used f/16. He wouldn't have it that it was an unreasonable, unrealistic example. I have no idea why Fuji uses stopped down AF with lenses that don't have focus shift but at least we have the option of BBF which uses full aperture. AF is pretty superfluous most of the time with such wideangles anyway.
Sony when I had it did full aperture AF, but there was a furore over the thoroughly unremarkable kit 28-70 which had so much focus shift (among its other 'virtues') they did firmware update to force stopped down AF to give some hope of a sharp picture.
My understanding — and, no, I did not get out my camera to confirm — is that mirrorless cameras, unlike (D)SLRs, do not stop down the lens during AF, instead working at the selected aperture.
(I get this from reading, not checking, and perhaps there are exceptions, so please feel free to set me straight if I have this wrong.)
If this is correct, imagine what any mirrorless camera that works this way is trying to do when auto-focusing at smaller apertures, much less at a diffraction-blur generating aperture like f/16. The DOF would be extraordinarily wide. (DSLR/SLR bodies temporarily set the lens to the largest, narrow-DOF aperture to AF, then close down as the exposure is initiated.)
There would be several issues to consider here. First, particularly with shorter focal lengths (e.g. larger DOF) there would be a wide range of distances that would appear to be in-focus. Second, diffraction blur on the relatively smaller APS-C format would begin introducing diffraction sharpness when stopped won, making AF even more complicated. Third, even if the distance were not gauged perfectly, it would hardly make any discernible difference in the exposure given the super-large DOF and the general effects of diffraction blur.
If my understanding is correct — and I’m willing to be shown wrong here — any camera that works this way is going to be challenged by this specific set of circumstances.
p.4 #18 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
Nielk Mike wrote:
Where do you get the 99.9% from? What I see on the fora is a much higher rate of folks not happy with Fuji's AF.
The same two people posting over and over and over again ad naseum about their failures does not equate to "a much higher rate of folks not happy with Fuji's AF."
p.4 #19 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
I'll chime in, having used virtually every system under the sun , I can vouch that I have had more false positive AF issues with Fuji (I have an Xpro2, XE1 and XT50) than any other system I have used over the past 10+ years. For me it happens with wide angle lenses stopped down in single shot AF, I primarily do landscape, non-moving objects and don't fire off multiple shots rapidly, but I have had countless misses in critical situations which I do not have with my Sony's my Nikon DSLRs or my m43 kits. I admit everyone's mileage may vary but to ignore and suggest this is fiction or user error is just tone-deaf. We should also admit that not everyone has these issues due to how they shoot, so I accept that as well.
p.4 #20 · Will XT6 finally catch up to Sony, Canon and Nikon with AF.
I've shot Canon and Fuji over the past 20 something years. Their autofocus is similar in many ways but does have several differences. When shooting on a canon 5d3 I would pretty much use servo (continuous) and the smallest focus point. Results were very good at the time. Much better than my previous 1d2n. I tried to do the same with Fuji, however, when you use the smallest focus point in continuous .... it doesn't work. It's horrible. I rarely use their smallest focus point even in single shot. Otherwise...I don't have issues as long as I work with that limitation. ...and I'm using an ancient X-t3. Point being there are some differences with how every camera focuses. Get to know them and you realize they aren't that hard to work around.
I've seen sharp images of barn swallow heading right at the camera taken on fuji. If it can do that ...while not the best...it's still capable if you learn it.
Regardless though...it needs to be improved in the next generation. No excuses.
I have provided detailed description of both issues, the AF-S inconsistencies and the focus beyond infinity, and provide guidance how to test yourself. But it seems you rather don't. 
