I sold my M10 last year as I was not using it much. The image quality was simply amazing though and after some time, I decided to replace it and bought an M10-R. I have not had it long enough to really know if the images are as wonderful as with the M10, but I hope that they are and that there is little to no change in the colors with the higher-resolution sensor. I do love it so far though.
Abuttolph wrote:
I sold my M10 last year as I was not using it much. The image quality was simply amazing though and after some time, I decided to replace it and bought an M10-R. I have not had it long enough to really know if the images are as wonderful as with the M10, but I hope that they are and that there is little to no change in the colors with the higher-resolution sensor. I do love it so far though.
The more Leica adds features and electronics to the M cameras for higher resolution and convenience, the more some of us end up looking backward and appreciating the older bodies like the M9, M240, and M10 series. I'm honestly a bit curious, and slightly nervous, to see what the M12 will bring.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The more Leica adds features and electronics to the M cameras for higher resolution and convenience, the more some of us end up looking backward and appreciating the older bodies like the M9, M240, and M10 series. I'm honestly a bit curious, and slightly nervous, to see what the M12 will bring.
Indeed. I like the M11 because it is small, lightweight, USB-C, etc...
And when I bought it I thought "I do not need 60 Mpix but it will be useful to crop sometimes".
4 years later, I cannot remember a case where it occurred.
I would perfectly happy with a sensor between 24 and 30 Mpix, even less noise at high iso than now, a reliable body & firmware from day one.
And instant start but I guess it will never occur because clearly, nobody at Leica uses the M cameras to shoot pictures before launching them.
P.S: I had one of the very first M8 and reported the IR and banding problem. Took me 1 or 2 days to discover them. To this day, I still wonder how they could miss such obvious problems and I'm just an amateur. Same with the M11 freezing or over exposing a picture when shooting a series.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The more Leica adds features and electronics to the M cameras for higher resolution and convenience, the more some of us end up looking backward and appreciating the older bodies like the M9, M240, and M10 series. I'm honestly a bit curious, and slightly nervous, to see what the M12 will bring.
So true. One of the reasons why I enjoy the Leica systems is that the interfaces are much less complicated than other systems. While some of the changes with newer cameras are very welcome, I hope that they don't stray too much from what the older systems brought to the table. I too am curious about what the M12 will be.
I'll always have a special place in my heart for the M10 (original, not R or P) as it was my first rangefinder. Loved how it taught me to slow down and enjoy photography, abandoning my spray and pray days using Sony and Nikon. And the colors and images they shot, perfect just like my original Q which shared the same sensor.
I've moved on to the M11P and M11M, love them equally as much. But in a M12, please no more megapixels, they're just not needed. And please no flip down LCD. IBIS I could take or leave, but please don't include it if it's at the expense of size/weight as compared to M10 or M11. And finally, the talk of hybrid EVF/rangefinder: I'm on the fence. I love the rangefinder experience but not at night when I'm forced to revert to either visoflex 2 or LCD. One thing for sure, I'm VERY happy with my M11's and will not be one of the first to jump at the M12 (as I almost did with the 35 noctilux, and thank heavens I decided to walk away).
The M10 will always have a special place, like many of you. It was the body that opened the door into the Leica World for me. Today, I still love the M10 colors but I do enjoy the advancements that my M11-D brings.
I just want IBIS, if it's possible without changing the form factor. Other than that I feel they need not add any features or resolution. I'm still using the M10-R.
Whilst it would be great to have more accurate colour and colour contrast (M10-R is poor here), I do appreciate the unique rendering of this sensor when every other camera has a Sony sensor.
brick33308 wrote:
I'd be hard pressed to find images I like better than the ones that my M10 (not P or R) and original Q made, both sharing the same sensor.
The M10 didn't share a sensor with the original Q. The original Q shared a sensor with the original SL.
The M10/M10-P sensor was first mislabeled as base ISO 100, which caused the infamous highlight clipping issue until Leica fixed the base ISO in firmware. It's a base ISO 200 sensor, which IMO is a big drawback for shooting wide open in bright light without ND filters. It may be an advantage, though, if you have smaller maximum aperture lenses and like shooting in low light, at least when compared with other sensors made at that time.
thrice wrote:
Whilst it would be great to have more accurate colour and colour contrast (M10-R is poor here), I do appreciate the unique rendering of this sensor when every other camera has a Sony sensor.
The M10-R's color rendition is definitely... different. I've had one since they were released. I think Leica set about to make the M10-R mimic some color film they had in mind. When it works, it can look great. Other times no amount of post can right the ship. That said, the M10-R acuity (sharpness & definition) is outstanding. Both it and the M10-M punch above their weight class in that regard.
My one wish for the M10-R and M10-M was a firmware update adding electronic shutter. When I emailed Leica about it (way back when), they said it was do-able if enough people asked. No such firmware update ever came, so that suggests not many people asked.
If Leica continues in the same direction as defined by the M11 and M-EV1, I think the M10-M and M10-R will go down in history as the best digital M's. I have all the digital M's since the beginning (M8). The M10-M and M10-R are the most enjoyable (to me). If Leica wants to continue with 60 MP, or dares to add even more MP, then they have to crack the IBIS nut.
I have zero romantic feeling about m10 or early m9. So far, each M upgrade has offer me some solid improvement. M11 is the triple resolution, sensor DR and high resolution along with E shutter, not to mention battery that last days of shooting now.
There is one downside on shutter but trade off is just too big for me to continue m10.
For m12, I want to have better shutter, IBIS and I won’t reject more resolution or DR or stack sensor or global shutter... It is a digital camera at end of day. It need keep going forward and just leave the form as is.
M12 thoughts-
Brass top/bottom plates mandatory
No video features
IP67/68 rating
IBIS - only if Leica can pull off X2D2 levels
No thicker than a M240 - prefer M10 size
No thinner than the M11 - larger hands don't enjoy tiny things
No EVF - I don't need more than what I see through my M10R
Focus on longevity - Heirloom products that last decades
And last…CONTINUE SUPPORTING PRIOR GENERATIONS REPLACEMENT PARTS AND SERVICE! Please.
It is funny I like the M 11 and M 10 R best and my EV 1 for wider or tele lenses but if money was no object I would also own the M 9 loved that camera. But then again if money was plentiful would also own a M !1M
Surfnsun wrote:
M12 thoughts-
Brass top/bottom plates mandatory
No video features
IP67/68 rating
IBIS - only if Leica can pull off X2D2 levels
No thicker than a M240 - prefer M10 size
No thinner than the M11 - larger hands don't enjoy tiny things
No EVF - I don't need more than what I see through my M10R
Focus on longevity - Heirloom products that last decades
And last…CONTINUE SUPPORTING PRIOR GENERATIONS REPLACEMENT PARTS AND SERVICE! Please.
That's all.
My take on your list.
IP rating is never going to happen. The M lenses have no gaskets. This includes the mount flange.
From what I have heard the survey results came down strongly against the useless removable bottom plate. I am the opposite of you. I will never buy a new M with the fake removable bottom plate. It existed only to load film.
Brass will likely remain an option with some colors, but lighter aluminum has proven to be more popular.
The EV-1 has proven popular enough for that line to continue as a separate camera from M.
IBIS offering only 3 or 4 stops of hand holding offers meaningful improvement in image quality by enabling using much lower ISO in many situations.
I agree on the form factor for functional reasons. But, in my opinion nostalgia has no place in limiting digital M technology advances.
I get that some people get bent out of shape about the bottom plate, but it's not so much a bottom plate. That was poor wording on my part. I just simply want the bottom and top to be made out of brass. If people are working so quickly with their like a M cameras that they need access to the battery door and the charging port at all times then so be it. I personally don’t need that kind of speed for family photography. To me the bottom place is simply a sacrificial part of a very expensive camera that cost far less to replace than the camera itself. The procedure of turning something a quarter turn doesn’t bother me. Of course, I work with my hands for a living in a blue-collar job with tools daily so maybe that has something to do with it.
and I agree I totally don’t expect to see any kind of water resistant rating in these cameras ever
1bwana1 wrote:
My take on your list.
IP rating is never going to happen. The M lenses have no gaskets. This includes the mount flange.
From what I have heard the survey results came down strongly against the useless removable bottom plate. I am the opposite of you. I will never buy a new M with the fake removable bottom plate. It existed only to load film.
Brass will likely remain an option with some colors, but lighter aluminum has proven to be more popular.
The EV-1 has proven popular enough for that line to continue as a separate camera from M.
IBIS offering only 3 or 4 stops of hand holding offers meaningful improvement in image quality by enabling using much lower ISO in many situations.
I agree on the form factor for functional reasons. But, in my opinion nostalgia has no place in limiting digital M technology advances. ...Show more →
