...photographer Thorsten Overgaard. I know opinions about him can be a bit divided and he can be quite opinionated, but on this one I have to agree. The M10 really feels like the sweet spot of the digital M line.
Fred Miranda wrote:
...photographer Thorsten Overgaard. I know opinions about him can be a bit divided and he can be quite opinionated, but on this one I have to agree. The M10 really feels like the sweet spot of the digital M line.
I just wish I upgraded to the M10-P or R for the quiet shutter and touch screen. Otherwise I'm still happy with my 8+ year old M10 that I got when digital M's were still 6k. The images are still very sufficient and nice, no need to upgrade for that reason.
Never like the M 10 too many blown highlights I hate and Overgaard is not someone I would ever listen too. Loved the M 10 r and M 11. That is as polite as I can be about that fraud. I have owned every leica M digital model except the monochrome versions. Well at least the plain versions not the P or other variants. Only one i hated was the 240 and the M8 limited by the crop sensor.
Personally, I mainly use the Leica M11 for reviews because it simply makes the job easier, electronic shutter (for tripod testing), USB-C, and several other conveniences borrowed from mirrorless cameras.
But when it comes to my favorite M cameras, the top spot goes to the Leica M10-R and its sensor, followed by the Leica M-D (Typ 262) and the Leica M10-P, I have the Safari version.
And yes, just like the Leica M9 and the Leica M-D, the M10 series offers a bit less dynamic range. But in practice it's never an issue for me. I know the limits of the sensor, so blown highlights are easy to avoid by adjusting the exposure accordingly. I do hope a new Leica M12 will bring the Leica M back to basics, just like the Leica M10 did after the Leica M (Typ 240).
I guess we are all free to pick our favorite. Fortunately we have choices.
However, as on owner of both I fell heavily on the M11 side for so many important to me reasons. I had an M10-P, an M10-M, and a M11 simultaneously. Every day I chose to shoot the M11. So ended up selling the other two.
Strong wallet vote there.
I hope the M12 embraces the future more. I would like it to have:
IBIS (easiest path to better IQ)
Faster sensor for no compromise silent shooting.
Faster processor for almost instant boot times.
Triple layer sensor for highr DR.
Really fast smoother VisoFlex III combined with fast sensor and processor for advanced EVF focus aids. Combined with RF it will make the M the best manual focus platform available in all use modes.
So many real benefits to leading edge technologies. But keep the classic formula factor, simple menu, and Lleica workflow.
Please don't go back to off sensor metering. Never want to see a bottom plate again.
1bwana1 wrote:
Please don't go back to off sensor metering. Never want to see a bottom plate again.
This is another feature Leica borrowed from mirrorless cameras, and in theory we do get better internal matrix (multi-segment) metering. Having said that, I am likely in the minority here but I much prefer the metering off the shutter curtain because it's the classic center-weighted metering, and the shutter action is limited to open (take a picture) and close (get metering for the next capture).
On the M11 the shutter sits open at rest so the sensor can meter the scene continuously. Pressing the shutter triggers a full close, open, close, open cycle. It closes to reset, opens for the exposure, closes to end it, and opens again so the sensor is live for the next shot. Those extra movements turn the classic single click of the M10 into a busier, clunkier shuffle.
I find it genuinely annoying because it breaks the traditional Leica M feel. There is a tiny pre-exposure clack and the sound is less satisfying. It feels more mirrorless-like which for me is a step back even though the metering upgrade is real. I have never had issues with auto exposure, though I often prefer an external incident meter.
Not trying to be contrarian, I do like the bottom plate as it reminds me of my film Ms. Practically speaking, with my Leica M10-P and Leica M10-R, I almost never need to remove the bottom plate for transferring images. I usually send files wirelessly to my Mac, so the only time I take it off is to change the battery.
1bwana1 wrote:
I guess we are all free to pick our favorite. Fortunately we have choices.
However, as on owner of both I fell heavily on the M11 side for so many important to me reasons. I had an M10-P, an M10-M, and a M11 simultaneously. Every day I chose to shoot the M11. So ended up selling the other two.
Strong wallet vote there.
I hope the M12 embraces the future more. I would like it to have:
IBIS (easiest path to better IQ)
Faster sensor for no compromise silent shooting.
Faster processor for almost instant boot times.
Triple layer sensor for highr DR.
Really fast smoother VisoFlex III combined with fast sensor and processor for advanced EVF focus aids. Combined with RF it will make the M the best manual focus platform available in all use modes.
So many real benefits to leading edge technologies. But keep the classic formula factor, simple menu, and Lleica workflow.
Please don't go back to off sensor metering. Never want to see a bottom plate again....Show more →
The more time goes on the more Leica M is starting to look like everything else out there. For me this is a direction I wont go in. The reason I went all Leica M was for as much as what they don't have as to what they do have. Could be the M 10 series will be my last Leica Ms.
My first Leica M camera purchase was my original M10, in April 2018, which was about as early as one could get a new M10, without having to first be on a waiting list. I had decided to pull the trigger on a pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, that had been calling my name, at a nearby Leica dealer. I had practiced rangefinder shooting, inside the store, during several visits, with pre-owned and demonstrator M9 and M Type 240 cameras. I had figured that I would be buying a pre-owned or new M Type 240, along with the lens, but, no, two new M10 cameras had just become available, with the waiting list having just been fulfilled. Fortuitous!
When my M10 was down, after a mishap, I bought a pre-owned M Type 246 Monochrom, to keep M shooting, while waiting for my M10 to be repaired. I still have a "team" of 246 and M10 cameras, and, do not feel deprived. I did seriously consider adding an M10 Monochrom, in 2021 and 2022. I also considered adding an M10-R, in order to have true ISO 100. I also lusted for an M10-P Safari. Any of these three M10-series options may yet happen, now that my selection of M lenses seems to have stabilized. The M11-series does not excite me.
I have made sure to add plenty of BP-SCL5 batteries! Two more arrived, yesterday, and, if stock remains available, I may order yet another pair, before the end of this month.
I’m learning this new way of shooting. I literally just bought an M10-R and so far I have zero regrets. My first new camera in 8 years and a lot to learn!
I mainly bought it for that sensor, and to me it’s something special and pretty unique. Paired with this 50 Lux and I’m in photographer heaven. I feel reinvigorated to shoot more pictures. It’s a new challenge. Something new to learn.
RexGig0 wrote:
My first Leica M camera purchase was my original M10, in April 2018, which was about as early as one could get a new M10, without having to first be on a waiting list. I had decided to pull the trigger on a pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, that had been calling my name, at a nearby Leica dealer. I had practiced rangefinder shooting, inside the store, during several visits, with pre-owned and demonstrator M9 and M Type 240 cameras. I had figured that I would be buying a pre-owned or new M Type 240, along with the lens, but, no, two new M10 cameras had just become available, with the waiting list having just been fulfilled. Fortuitous!
When my M10 was down, after a mishap, I bought a pre-owned M Type 246 Monochrom, to keep M shooting, while waiting for my M10 to be repaired. I still have a "team" of 246 and M10 cameras, and, do not feel deprived. I did seriously consider adding an M10 Monochrom, in 2021 and 2022. I also considered adding an M10-R, in order to have true ISO 100. I also lusted for an M10-P Safari. Any of these three M10-series options may yet happen, now that my selection of M lenses seems to have stabilized. The M11-series does not excite me.
I have made sure to add plenty of BP-SCL5 batteries! Two more arrived, yesterday, and, if stock remains available, I may order yet another pair, before the end of this month. ...Show more →
airfrogusmc wrote:
The more time goes on the more Leica M is starting to look like everything else out there. For me this is a direction I wont go in. The reason I went all Leica M was for as much as what they don't have as to what they do have. Could be the M 10 series will be my last Leica Ms.
I'd say Leica should keep developing the SL and Q series to stay current with mirrorless tech, but at the same time continue making digital M cameras that focus on the essentials, like the M10, which is why it's a classic. Hopefully the M12 doesn't add more electronics and software complexity to a mechanical masterpiece. There's also room to improve the rangefinder mechanically and maybe even make the camera smaller, closer to the size of an M3, which is more compact than the M‑A.
I know I'm probably in the minority these days, so maybe Leica will add more megapixels and features to the M12, which is fine, since many of us are still happy with our cameras and can focus our resources on lenses and trips...
Just please, Leica, don't stop making batteries for your older cameras or providing service for them.
Fred Miranda wrote:
This is another feature Leica borrowed from mirrorless cameras, and in theory we do get better internal matrix (multi-segment) metering. Having said that, I am likely in the minority here but I much prefer the metering off the shutter curtain because it's the classic center-weighted metering, and the shutter action is limited to open (take a picture) and close (get metering for the next capture).
On the M11 the shutter sits open at rest so the sensor can meter the scene continuously. Pressing the shutter triggers a full close, open, close, open cycle. It closes to reset, opens for the exposure, closes to end it, and opens again so the sensor is live for the next shot. Those extra movements turn the classic single click of the M10 into a busier, clunkier shuffle.
I find it genuinely annoying because it breaks the traditional Leica M feel. There is a tiny pre-exposure clack and the sound is less satisfying. It feels more mirrorless-like which for me is a step back even though the metering upgrade is real. I have never had issues with auto exposure, though I often prefer an external incident meter.
Not trying to be contrarian, I do like the bottom plate as it reminds me of my film Ms. Practically speaking, with my Leica M10-P and Leica M10-R, I almost never need to remove the bottom plate for transferring images. I usually send files wirelessly to my Mac, so the only time I take it off is to change the battery....Show more →
I'm in the same camp. I like the metering off the shutter personally and I have no trouble at all with highlights. I also love the bottom plate since I started with film M's. I have an SL2-S, soon to be SL3 for a more tech featured camera and I don't need the M to do that.
I've been shooting pretty continuously for the last 5-6 months on a first-batch 2003 Leica MP with the sharkskin leather so please hold your "respect the legacy" commentary.
With all due respect due to Thorsten, which isn't much, the M10 is only the sweet spot right now for price. The metering is just bad, and having to either matrix-meter via live view or spot metering the darkest point of the scene with -1 EV comp like you're shooting on film is such a pain. I had an M10-R for several months before the more recently acquired M11-P, and the M11 is in no identifiable way inferior to the M10-R. The more common M11 issues such as magenta tint and slow start-up have been fixed to my satisfaction, and the gains of a BSI sensor, better metering, 60MP, larger battery, no silly baseplate, internal storage, sapphire rear glass...the list goes on. I'm definitely not in the "newer is always better" camp but in this specific case I can't see why one would pine for the M10 for any reason other than nostalgia.
But hey, I shoot film in 2026 so nostalgia may be my cope too.
My dream Leica M would be a meterless (I have a a bunch of old meters) B&W no LCD, fully manual camera and the only thing that would need the battery is the sensor. A wind that would cock the shutter. That would be a dream digital Leica M for me. It will never happen but I can dream ha ha, For now my 2 M10s and my M 10 Mono are just fine.
airfrogusmc wrote:
My dream Leica M would be a meterless (I have a a bunch of old meters) B&W no LCD, fully manual camera and the only thing that would need the battery is the sensor. A wind that would cock the shutter. That would be a dream digital Leica M for me. It will never happen but I can dream ha ha, For now my 2 M10s and my M 10 Mono are just fine.
The M-D is actually pretty close to that idea. There's no menu, no LCD, no EVF option, no Wi-Fi, and none of the usual modern tech. All you get is the shutter dial, aperture on the lens and the ISO dial on the back, similar to the newer M11-D, but without the electronic or phone-app features found on the M10-D or M11-D. It does have internal metering, though, so if that ever stopped working it would pretty much become your dream digital M camera!
To get around the M11 metering shutter clickity-clacking, they could give us a no metering, shutter closed option. I suggested this when the M11 was released. But seems unlikely to ever happen.
I mean, for me, I usually do a test shot or two at random times during an outing to confirm manual exposure via histogram, so I'd be totally fine with a no metering option. I barely rely on in-camera metering as it is now anyway. It would also seem to fit in with the Leica 'less is more' philosophy.
1bwana1 wrote:
I guess we are all free to pick our favorite. Fortunately we have choices.
However, as on owner of both I fell heavily on the M11 side for so many important to me reasons. I had an M10-P, an M10-M, and a M11 simultaneously. Every day I chose to shoot the M11. So ended up selling the other two.
Strong wallet vote there.
I hope the M12 embraces the future more. I would like it to have:
IBIS (easiest path to better IQ)
Faster sensor for no compromise silent shooting.
Faster processor for almost instant boot times.
Triple layer sensor for highr DR.
Really fast smoother VisoFlex III combined with fast sensor and processor for advanced EVF focus aids. Combined with RF it will make the M the best manual focus platform available in all use modes.
So many real benefits to leading edge technologies. But keep the classic formula factor, simple menu, and Lleica workflow.
Please don't go back to off sensor metering. Never want to see a bottom plate again....Show more →
airfrogusmc wrote:
The more time goes on the more Leica M is starting to look like everything else out there. For me this is a direction I wont go in. The reason I went all Leica M was for as much as what they don't have as to what they do have. Could be the M 10 series will be my last Leica Ms.
Given the rate of Leica inflation, I doubt I will be getting another M. But it's the internet, so I will still comment on future feature wants/needs.
Respectfully, IMO nothing that Steve requested takes away from using such a hypothetical camera as a purely rangefinder/OVF camera, which is the core of the M and Leica should not mess around with it. A faster sensor would actually enhance the RF/OVF experience by adding a usable silent e-shutter option that would seem, to me at least, be a potentially beneficial improvement.
Im glad you like it though!!!! 
