I have no desire to have n electronic shutter and IBIS is something I don't need. When shooting on the streets I am usually shooting at 1/1000 or 1/2000 of a second. And the processor in the M 10 Mono is very fast. I never have shutter lag. But then again I never use FPS. It's just not the way I work. I use to hear all the time when I had my Canon's just turn off the automation. Well how about not having it there to begin with. For me that is a lot better. In fact thats another reason I went all Leica M in 2015.
My first Leica digital M was the M9Mono (2012) and then there was the M9M-E, stripped down M9 the M 262 stripped down M 240. Don't need all the stuff so why buy cameras that have it. The M 10 series actually have more stuff than I want on my camera.
So again if Leica wants me to buy a new camera then make one that fits my needs. Or not. But what they have been making to this point (M 10 series especially) works for me because they were still alternatives to the rest of whats out there. Once they stop becoming that and become like all the rest then I'm out. And it's getting pretty close to that now. I'm not the only one that feels this way.
And I just wanted to add that there are many cameras out there already that have all this stuff. They probably are doing it better because they have been doing it a lot longer and are not as expensive. I say stay with the one that brought you to the dance. The reason M has remained the flagship and the reason that Leica has done fairly well while others have struggled is they have made a true alternative. Once that is no longer tre case, then what?
retrofocus wrote:
This happened to me decades ago with Canon. I started out with FD lenses which couldn't be used with later EF cameras. Nikon didn't do this - they made sure their lenses were always backwards compatible. I started with Canon because I was handed it as my first camera (Canon FTb), and I didn't know better until much later that Nikon would have been for me personally - liking vintage lenses - would have been the better choice. Especially when the D850 came along and I was stuck with Canon and a sensor below Sony image quality. My FD lenses found a second life when Sony MLC came along. Some of my FD lenses I still prefer over similar EF lenses I own. ...Show more →
Yes I agree and I still have my 55 1.2 Aspherical and my 24L and several F-1s. I had an FTb at one point and a Nikon F-3.
airfrogusmc wrote:
So again if Leica wants me to buy a new camera then make one that fits my needs. Or not. But what they have been making to this point (M 10 series especially) works for me because they were still alternatives to the rest of whats out there. Once they stop becoming that and become like all the rest then I'm out. And it's getting pretty close to that now. I'm not the only one that feels this way.
That kind of begs the question. What could they add or take away that is not the M10 generation that would make you want to buy a new M camera?
1bwana1 wrote:
That kind of begs the question. What could they add or take away that is not the M10 generation that would make you want to buy a new M camera?
Ha ha yes lower price would certainly help. I mean both the M-E and IIRC the M 262 were less than the M 9 and the M 240. I would say make the M 10 mono with a 24MP sensor instead of the 40MP sensor.
With the software for upsizing and the fact I rarely have to print anything larger than 13 X 19 all those MPs is just over kill. I shot some images for a hospital client with my 18MP M 9 Mono some years back and upsized with Genuine Fractals /On One software and made 36 X 54 inch prints that were amazingly clear and sharp.
They were in a space where you could walk right up to them. I have also shot billboards with 24MPs or less. I know viewing distance but still. Folks that post 100kb compressed JPGs on websites want 60 + MPs I don't get it.
These are the images in the hospital I was just telling you about
The M10M is the camera I miss the most, it was just about perfect. I'm waiting for one of the chinese battery manufacturers to make the USB-C slotted batteries that are popular in the non-Leica cameras nowadays.
If I were a collector I would add a M10R BP for sure, but I'm not, so when a good deal comes up on the M10M, it'll most likely complete my Leica body rotation (until the M12 Monochrom-D comes out).
airfrogusmc wrote:
Ha ha yes lower price would certainly help. I mean both the M-E and IIRC the M 262 were less than the M 9 and the M 240. I would say make the M 10 mono with a 24MP sensor instead of the 40MP sensor.
I think Leica should bring M-E (E stands for entry) versions back for their cameras. Make them as done previously in limited numbers when already the new series has started. Price them low enough to make it attractive for new Leica users. This is how Leica got me to move to digital M with my M-E 240. A fantastic camera. M-E versions didn't compromise in any functionality of the original camera series - the M-E 240 actually improved over the M 240 with 2 GB buffer instead of 1 GB (likely this came already from M10 components which also used 2 GB). Only limitation in this M-E series was with incompatibility of the optional handgrip for not having electronic features to work including GPS access and no internal speaker.
These were the "good" times before Leica went all into the luxury brand thing only.
1bwana1 wrote:
What could they add or take away that is not the M10 generation that would make you want to buy a new M camera?
Actually I've asked myself that question in regard to my M11M and M11P. Those cameras have everything that I want/need. But have to admit, if the M12 had a hybrid EVF/rangefinder viewfinder, I'd find that compelling.
1bwana1 wrote:
That kind of begs the question. What could they add or take away that is not the M10 generation that would make you want to buy a new M camera?
I already did it with the EV1 and I do not need IBIS or another type of EVF since it works seamlessly for me as it is. I finally got rid of having to use the Viso2 on my M11's. Yeah!
No FP, just magnify, if needed to nail focus and shoot immediately.
I owned a Contax G2 camera with the Zeiss 28/2.8 Biogon, 45/2 Planar, and 90/2.8 Sonnar (all in black with a foam-fitted case for all) about 20 years ago. It was a wonderful camera that had the form of a small rangefinder but with some electronic augmentation that went beyond anything Leica has done in the M series. It might be an interesting camera to consider in this discussion.
It was a very small, compact body in the rangefinder style with an optical viewfinder. The shutter was very quiet. It had autofocus with the small and excellent Zeiss lenses, aperture-priority exposure, and automatically advanced the film. It did not have a rangefinder patch, but it did have optical frame lines that changed automatically with the lens that was attached. It also had a small flash with TTL metering.
It was a small and discreet camera that operated quietly and gave a sense of immediacy, simplicity, and directness that was very appealing and that worked well with my way of taking pictures. It was quiet and unobtrusive. Looked very simple. In these ways and in terms of its optical and general quality, it participated in the rangefinder aesthetic as exemplified by Leica.
If Leica were to make an updated version of the G2, with IBIS, a digital sensor, and AF but in a very small, discreet, quiet, slender rangefinder-style body that had a sense of directness and simplicity in its controls and operations, I would buy one in a moment.
At present, for me, the Sony A7C R is the camera that comes closest to a modern G2, but it is not really quite there in terms of the form and the controls and the user experience. But it's not bad.
A Lecia-Sony rangefinder-style collaboration would be interesting to contemplate.
chiron wrote:
If Leica were to make an updated version of the G2, with IBIS, a digital sensor, and AF but in a very small, discreet, quiet, slender rangefinder-style body that had a sense of directness and simplicity in its controls and operations, I would buy one in a moment.
No disagreement. The camera a lot of people have been asking for the last 8-10 years.
I like my m10, and for changes going forward, I think the key is if any technology is put into it, that it ‘dissappears’- so IBIS, so you don’t know its there. My main issue with my X100VI is that I was always evening to get into a mode or active something inadvertently. I now have it set up to be a ‘dumb’ as possible. All the func buttons zeroed out- I’ll change things with a menu button or a Q.
The one difference between analog and digital for me is that film takes the picture NOW. Digital is always a lag. I’ve gotten to where escpecially with the M10, I have it ‘on’ and I just shoot off a ‘spoiler’ to get the camera fully up and working before I get it to my eye.
Got my M10P and liking it a lot. In fact it makes me like an RF more than the M11 did. Perhaps it's the 24MP-which is plenty for my printing needs and the quiet shutter is nice the hear. I still like and own the EV1.
Well, I just exercised an option to buy an externally like-new, pre-owned M10 Monochrom, from an official Leica US dealer. It may have been a demonstrator camera. I would have been satisfied with a standard Monochrome, but, this one is a Leitz Wetzlar Edition, chosen for its condition, rather than its special markings.
In both early 2021 and early 2022, I had chosen to defer buying an M10 Monochrome, and keep using my "team" of original M10 and M Type 246 Monochrom cameras. 24MP had seemed ample, and, it still does. Instead, I bought better M lenses in 2022 and in 2023. The compelling reasons to finally get the newer M10 Monochrome were the lower true base ISO of 160, the ability to shoot at ISO 50K, and the quieter shutter. The better ability to occasionally crop severely, especially if I have been night-shooting with a Nokton 21mm f/1.4 Aspherical VM lens, or other wide-angle lens, could be a convenient bonus.
The resumption of good availability of BP-SCL5 batteries played a part in the equation to remain comfortable with the M10-series, while being a bit anxious about BP-SCL2 batteries for the 240-series.
The apparent "en-Sony-fication" and clickety-clacking shutter of the M11-series remain utterly unappealing.
2026 being the year I will reach age 65, it seemed to be a good time to consider updating the camera equation.
Welcome to the 65 and older club and a big congrats on the M 10 Mono. I have no desire to upgrade from my 2 M10s and especailly my M 10 Mono. The all exceed my needs in a camera.
airfrogusmc wrote:
Welcome to the 65 and older club and a big congrats on the M 10 Mono. I have no desire to upgrade from my 2 M10s and especailly my M 10 Mono. The all exceed my needs in a camera.
Thanks for the warm welcome!
Amen, regarding the M10 family of cameras meeting one's needs.
Well, I must concede that I do still use my Canon DSLRs, for macro, especially for "Moth Nights" during each year's Moth Month, when night-flying insects are documented, in their habitats. The ability of the Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro lens, with Hybrid Image Stabilization, the weather-sealed, mighty Macro L, that auto-focuses almost like an actions/sports lens, is a true wonder. A Leica M camera can shoot macro, of course, but, well, there is that extremely shallow DOF, at macro and close range. AF and weather-sealing have their place. (Once upon a time, 2010 to 2018, I had to photograph crime scenes, and evidence, regardless of weather.)
And, Nikon being my wife's system, it makes sense to keep using my Nikons SLRs and DSLRs, occasionally. (We can share a common pool of lenses and Speedlights.)
But, to simply be an older guy, walking about with a camera? Or, photographing people? Leica M, thank you very much. Life is good. Leica M for photographing life.
