fjablo wrote:
I hope this doesn’t end up as too much of a financial disaster for Lomography. They might not be able to pay their marketing staff well if it does..
fjablo wrote:
Mint mentioned that the Rollei 35 project could kill the company if it goes wrong.
I hope this doesn’t end up as too much of a financial disaster for Lomography. They might not be able to pay their marketing staff well if it does..
The Mint is expensive and was a pretty unique design that might not have appeal to many photographers, so I think there was always a chance that it would fail.
The Lomo on the other hand has pretty much everything one would want in a modern compact film camera, at least on paper. If Lomo sort out the film transport issue, they should be selling them for years to come. On the other hand, if they pretend it doesn't exist people will quickly lose trust in them and there is no surer way to kill a company.
I know some people really like to wind their film, but i would have been happier with a motor winder in such a camera. It would have been much cheaper and simpler too.
Geoff D F wrote:
The Mint is expensive and was a pretty unique design that might not have appeal to many photographers, so I think there was always a chance that it would fail.
The Lomo on the other hand has pretty much everything one would want in a modern compact film camera, at least on paper. If Lomo sort out the film transport issue, they should be selling them for years to come. On the other hand, if they pretend it doesn't exist people will quickly lose trust in them and there is no surer way to kill a company.
I know some people really like to wind their film, but i would have been happier with a motor winder in such a camera. It would have been much cheaper and simpler too....Show more →
I really have high hopes for the Lomo. On paper it is everything I want from a compact film camera.
But no way am I buying until they have the bugs sorted. It's actually shocking it was released like this - for this many to have issues it is as if they had Leica QC on the job.
And there was no need to rush the release until they got it right - no-one knew it existed!
In the late 1970's, a group of Olympus employees got together to design a pocket sized manual focus rangefinder camera that would allow the user to select both the aperture and shutter speed. The clamshell design would not only protect the lens but would act as the on/off switch. The camera also needed to be reliable. Olympus sold over a million XA's.
In today's word with 3D modeling and enough computing power to put a virtual design through years of use, one would hope that a new film camera coming to market would be ready to use right out of the box. So far the roll outs have been less than a stirring success. The oldest manufacture of 35 millimeter cameras makes some cosmetic changes to a current production camera and only after a customer complains, admits a batch of pressure plates are scratching film. A small company that made a name by upgrading Polaroid SX-70's takes a big swing by recreating a classic pocket camera with 21st century features. Both manufacturing and design flaws have marred the roll out. A big name in cameras comes roaring back but with an odd design and for some reason decided to make it a half frame camera. Now the MC-A. So much promise and so close to what the community has been waiting for. That same community is cheering them on with the hopes of being heard, changes implemented and like the XA, the pocket camera we didn't know we wanted until it hit the market.
madNbad wrote:
In today's word with 3D modeling and enough computing power to put a virtual design through years of use, one would hope that a new film camera coming to market would be ready to use right out of the box. So far the roll outs have been less than a stirring success.
I think we should not underestimate how much implicit knowledge has been lost in the past 20 years or so. Both in designing and manufacturing film cameras.
Outsourced manufacturing with tens of thousands of miles plus cultural and language barriers between the design team and the manufacturing team also doesn't make it exactly easy to get everything right on first try - my hunch is that this is affecting both Lomography and the Analogue Pocket (less so MiNt and Pentax).
That the MC-A reached customers and reviewers in its current state make Lomography look inexperienced and naive when it comes to mass production. A bit surprising as its not their first camera, but it's their most ambitious one yet, so maybe they underestimated how much more important QC is for such a product.
fjablo wrote:
I think we should not underestimate how much implicit knowledge has been lost in the past 20 years or so. Both in designing and manufacturing film cameras.
Outsourced manufacturing with tens of thousands of miles plus cultural and language barriers between the design team and the manufacturing team also doesn't make it exactly easy to get everything right on first try - my hunch is that this is affecting both Lomography and the Analogue Pocket (less so MiNt and Pentax).
That the MC-A reached customers and reviewers in its current state make Lomography look inexperienced and naive when it comes to mass production. A bit surprising as its not their first camera, but it's their most ambitious one yet, so maybe they underestimated how much more important QC is for such a product. ...Show more →
YES. Global competition for semi-complex manufacturing is insane. Your making a device that has to compete with all sorts of Amazon marketplace gadgets. Kyocera and Samsung circa 1998 were doing big business in photographic equipment. Now it's niche. I also think part of the model for Chinese producers is to pitch products that they have already developed, then make brand specific tweaks (how else do you explain a single coated lens in 2025? It's not like this lens design is used in any of the LCA models. I dont even think it's 32mm lol) Lomography is really a retailer/distributor brand at the end of the day.
There is a plethora of cameras out there waiting to be reverse engineered. I'm not sure why that isn't a feasible option, learn from working design, and go from there.
Grime wrote:
There is a plethora of cameras out there waiting to be reverse engineered. I'm not sure why that isn't a feasible option, learn from working design, and go from there.
And that’s the weird thing about Ricoh/Pentax. They could have just taken one of their superb ‘old’ p&s cameras, taken it apart, copied everything and reproduced it. Perhaps w slightly updated exterior styling if need be.
My Pentax Espio 24EW looks like new, works like new, and produces excellent images. Instead of copying the wheel, when they introduced the P17 they reinvented it as a triangle.
No-one asked for a $500 zone focus, half frame, weird cryptic symboled camera. And it is almost as if no-one on the design team actually uses film cameras because the claim that making a half frame to save money on film ignores the fact that most labs charge double to scan half frame.
Lomography could have had a home run if the MC-A worked properly. But when every legit review shows it does not, and actual customers back up that finding, there is a problem.
I’m hoping this does not become an LC -A 120 - super pics but with awful film spacing (all they had to do was use a red window instead of the ‘auto’ spacing) and a shutter that lasts maybe a handful of rolls of film.
Hey, that's a quite a nitpicky rant, coming from a Holga shooter! 😀
Jokes aside though, @Desmolicious - I remember this one video where the head of the new "Film Camera Project" from Pentax explained what they were kinda going for (with the Pentax 17), what their reasoning was for certain decisions regarding the camera - in a nutshell: they designed it for young people who are enthusiastic about film, give them some manual control / some modes, but keep it simple at the same time etc. -
I remember thinking to myself that it's kinda odd (and probably not for me), but thought it might actually work (sell well).
When it was finally out it was basically sold out immediately, right?
Not sure what kind of people were actually buying it (the audience they "targeted", or old heads that were excited about a new camera on the market - in the end it does not matter of course, and I was happy for Pentax as the success of the 17 would enable them to pursue the manufacturing of the other two cameras they were planning on making (a SLR and a compact) - not sure if that's still happening though..)
I also remember seeing the first pics from it and thought to myself "man, those look really good for half frame". I was actually tempted to get one, but as you may remember from that other thread I was in fact in the process of selling a lot of my stuff and get an M Leica instead so needed all the funds for this 🙃
I guess my point is the 17 just is what it is, guess it's a love it or leave it situation.
Regarding the new Lomo -
I kinda think they're going for the same market segment ("young enthusiasts"), it's very much about the whole experience, right, like it's almost designed with unboxing videos in mind etc. 😅
Shame if the camera doesn't work properly though!
For what it's worth I wish Lomo all the best, they're doing a lot of great things for the analogue community, yet their cameras just aren't for me, most of all because the lenses, at the end of the day, are not great 💁♂️
Tina Kino wrote:
Hey, that's a quite a nitpicky rant, coming from a Holga shooter! 😀
Jokes aside though, @Desmolicious@ - I remember this one video where the head of the new "Film Camera Project" from Pentax explained what they were kinda going for (with the Pentax 17), what their reasoning was for certain decisions regarding the camera - in a nutshell: they designed it for young people who are enthusiastic about film, give them some manual control / some modes, but keep it simple at the same time etc. -
I remember thinking to myself that it's kinda odd (and probably not for me), but thought it might actually work (sell well).
When it was finally out it was basically sold out immediately, right?
Not sure what kind of people were actually buying it (the audience they "targeted", or old heads that were excited about a new camera on the market - in the end it does not matter of course, and I was happy for Pentax as the success of the 17 would enable them to pursue the manufacturing of the other two cameras they were planning on making (a SLR and a compact) - not sure if that's still happening though..)
I also remember seeing the first pics from it and thought to myself "man, those look really good for half frame". I was actually tempted to get one, but as you may remember from that other thread I was in fact in the process of selling a lot of my stuff and get an M Leica instead so needed all the funds for this 🙃
I guess my point is the 17 just is what it is, guess it's a love it or leave it situation.
Regarding the new Lomo -
I kinda think they're going for the same market segment ("young enthusiasts"), it's very much about the whole experience, right, like it's almost designed with unboxing videos in mind etc. 😅
Shame if the camera doesn't work properly though!
For what it's worth I wish Lomo all the best, they're doing a lot of great things for the analogue community, yet their cameras just aren't for me, most of all because the lenses, at the end of the day, are not great 💁♂️...Show more →
I think the only places the P17 sold out where the two or three popular mail order destinations - B&H etc.
When I visited Samys in LA ( a very large bricks n mortar store) they had a whole pallet of them and said they had not sold a single one. My local shop Paul's Photo also has not sold any - but there they are on the shelf.
I find the mode dial really confusing - the symbols make no sense unless you refer to the manual - and the same for the flashing light show in the VF. The zone focusing - with no ability to fine tune by setting inbetween zones - prevents ideal sharpness. If you want to see really sharp half frame pics the old Olympus Pen series is where it's at:
As for Holgas? They are awesome and dirt cheap! They don't pretend to be anything but low-fi and the images they can create are unique. There is nothing unique out of what the P17 can create, apart from having less sharpness than if it was a full frame 35mm camera.
Holgas rule!
Back on topic, I really hope Lomo gets their camera sorted. The design is such that you don't need to open an owner's manual - and I mean that as a compliment. It can be used by a complete novice to an expert thanks to its settings.
