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Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?

  
 
tctmp
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p.4 #1 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


chasdfg wrote:
I stand corrected, particularly in relation to auto manufacturers because there are lives at stake. As for the Z6 and Z7 and D850 CFe support, I was not aware of the Z6 and Z7 being viewed as crappy and not aware of the lack of CFe support (or belated?) for the D850 - the latter because I was not shooting Nikon at the time and the former because I always thought the Z6 and Z7 were "ok" first gen products. Behind Sony but not awful, but this is coming from someone who isn't Nikon's target audience (to me AF is
...Show more

No worries. The current Nikon is working hard only because its pants are on fire after the DSLR to mirrorless transition. Many companies gyrate between two phases. (1) pants on fire phase, where they have to work hard to survive, and sell with better value proposition, (2) slacking off phase when it has enough market share, and try to squeeze some extra pennies out of its customers without doing much. Nikon or Sony, they all behave the same. Nikon in DSLR time was very stingy on the firmware enhancements. In US, it also had the famous "impact damage" solution where it denies warranty by claiming product defects to be user caused. Basically then it was the slacking off one, and Sony was the hard working one. Now the situation is reversed. But if Nikon ever gain enough market share (a big IF though), I can bet it will revert to the other phase, and you can kiss away the frequent firmware updates then.



Sep 15, 2025 at 12:10 AM
Nifty Fifty
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p.4 #2 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


nhmorgan wrote:
Taken and edited by me. Probably close to a million images with Sony cameras and GM lenses. Easily over a million with Nikon cameras. Take it or leave it. With some exceptions, most of the Sony GM lenses have a look that I don't particularly like and I find the Sony cameras take more work to get to even a starting point *I* like. *I* don't feel like Sony puts a lot of effort into their color science. If they do, then, *I* don't think they are as good at it as other brands.

Well, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, because you're talking about personal feelings.

nhmorgan wrote:
The initial thing that prompted a response was the claim that the 35mm 1.4 Nikon Z is inferior to the 35mm GM. I said that's an apples to oranges comparison because the Nikon 35mm 1.4 isn't trying to be a 35mm GM.

Actually the initial thing was the statement that each time both brands offer a lens, the Nikon ends up being optically better, sometimes at the cost or more weight.

nhmorgan wrote:
So, my point is that for my taste, I like to work in a system that has those options and that takes a more diverse approach to lens development.

I agree with you, and I wish Sony would also pursue a dual approach in this regard, especially since it's unimaginable how compact these Sony character versions would be. Unfortunately, Sony users are left with only the 1.8/50mm lens in this segment, which, by the way, measures 7x7cm and weighs 185g.
Ultimately, for someone like me, who absolutely wants a 50mm f/1.2 lens suitable for everyday use with good autofocus and reasonably pleasant rendering, neither a 1.8/50 nor a 1.4/50 is much of a benefit. In the end, there's no other option but to go with the Sony, because I would absolutely not be willing to wear the Z stovepipe under any circumstances. Actually, even the GM is too big for me, although it seems almost ridiculously small next to the Nikkor.

nhmorgan wrote:
It also helps that there are 40+ years of autofocus lenses to choose from for Nikon.

However, that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual topic, otherwise I'd be countering with all the third-party options. This was about the size and weight of the Z Nikkors.



Sep 15, 2025 at 02:14 PM
bernardl
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p.4 #3 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?




tctmp wrote:
Then explain why the initial Z6/Z7 were so crappy even though they had years to prepare it. And why D850's CFE support (which is very close to the XQD firmware they already had) came years after they announced that they would implement it. If it's not effort, then it's capability which is even worse.

Btw, today's Japanese companies and workers are not what they were 70/80 years ago. The mentality is not much different from other developed countries. if you can't imagine it, how about Takata and all the auto companies involved in it.


The Z6/Z7 were best in class in most aspects but sensor read out speed/processor power and therefore AF-C. I far prefered using them over my a9II at the time. They were way ahead of the corresponding Canon on pretty much all accounts. And don’t forget that the D5/D6 were still better focusing cameras than the a9II (I owned both and did direct comparisons). Nikon still had the best focusing camera on the market at the time.

The support for CFexpress on the D850 was a low priority since the internals were not designed to benefit from the additional speed of the cards.

Cheers,
Bernard



Sep 15, 2025 at 04:35 PM
tctmp
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p.4 #4 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


bernardl wrote:
The Z6/Z7 were best in class in most aspects but sensor read out speed/processor power and therefore AF-C. I far prefered using them over my a9II at the time. They were way ahead of the corresponding Canon on pretty much all accounts. And don’t forget that the D5/D6 were still better focusing cameras than the a9II (I owned both and did direct comparisons). Nikon still had the best focusing camera on the market at the time.

The support for CFexpress on the D850 was a low priority since the internals were not designed to benefit from the additional speed of the
...Show more

All I know is tons of Nikon users waited to see what Nikon had to offer in Z6/Z7 and decided to jump ship after seeing those. Market share crated as a result and Nikon is still try to dig out from that hole and data support that. Of course you can choose to wear whatever glass you want. Btw, your "most aspects" were never the differentiators. Sensor SNR has plateaued a decade ago. All the differentiators were in your "but".

And d850 cfe support had nothing to do with improving internal operation. It's to help its users so that they can buy regular cfe cards instead of buying the expensive Nikon use only XQD cards. But Nikon at the time had no interest of giving people freebies or help them.



Sep 15, 2025 at 07:01 PM
RoamingScott
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p.4 #5 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


bernardl wrote:
The Z6/Z7 were best in class in most aspects


This is some WILD revisionist history, even for you



Sep 15, 2025 at 07:06 PM
bernardl
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p.4 #6 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


RoamingScott wrote:
This is some WILD revisionist history, even for you


Why the need for partial quotation? Just pick the whole sentence if you are interested in an actual discussion of the matter.

Did you even shoot with Z6/Z7? Do a factual first hand comparison with Sony bodies? I did.

Cheers,
Bernard



Edited on Sep 15, 2025 at 08:14 PM · View previous versions



Sep 15, 2025 at 08:04 PM
bernardl
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p.4 #7 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


tctmp wrote:
All I know is tons of Nikon users waited to see what Nikon had to offer in Z6/Z7 and decided to jump ship after seeing those. Market share crated as a result and Nikon is still try to dig out from that hole and data support that. Of course you can choose to wear whatever glass you want. Btw, your "most aspects" were never the differentiators. Sensor SNR has plateaued a decade ago. All the differentiators were in your "but".

And d850 cfe support had nothing to do with improving internal operation. It's to help its users so that they can
...Show more

The Nikon market share has very little to do with the Z6/Z7. The Nikon users were overall very happy about their DSLRs and those who decided to buy Z6/Z7 (I was one of them) knew full well what they were buying, meaning very compact, high image quality cameras with excellent EVFs giving access to best in class Z mount lenses while having obvious shortcomings for action photography.

What drove the decrease of Nikon's marketshare is simply a refusal to compete on price in the low end vs Canon.

There were XQD cards from Sony as well and we only got much cheaper CFExpress pretty late in the game. At least Nikon picked the right horse and not CFast like Canon did.

Cheers,
Bernard



Sep 15, 2025 at 08:08 PM
JadedWriter
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p.4 #8 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


In Nikon's defense they chase after the second gen Sony cameras, which they are better then. They were just bad compared to the third gen cameras. And even when you compare them to those cameras, they were better built. They just lost the AF war and Nikon didn't have the best native lens lineup. Z6/Z7 were better than the Canon R/RP though. Canon just rolled out the R6 and R5 before Nikon could steal clientele. I bought Sony during that time frame and still ended up back in Nikon. I had the RII-RIV. I never enjoyed their ergos or EVF's.
RoamingScott wrote:
This is some WILD revisionist history, even for you





Sep 15, 2025 at 09:02 PM
suteetat
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p.4 #9 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


What is the best camera for each person is very different. There is a good reason why some people prefer and use Sony, Nikon, Canon or whatever other cameras. If there is one clear single best at everything camera or camera brand, there would only be one camera company.
Some people may think Z6/Z7 were crappy, etc etc but not for me. I used Nikon DSLR along side mirrorless Sony since the original A7r inception and continued through A7r ii-iv. I gave up on Sony
since Z7 came out. I also had/have Leica SL, a few monochrome M bodies, Fuji GFX 50s, 100, 100 ii along the way. Let just say that I can use and afford any camera that I want and have tried many and I gave up on Sony when Nikon produced something that I want. It was touch and go for awhile between D6 vs A9 then A1 vs Z9
but I am glad I stick with Nikon. Z7 may not match A7r IV in AF capability but there are more to camera than AF. Dont really care if A1/A1 ii have better AF than Z9/Z8 as long as Z8/Z9 can AF well enough for my need then I can care about other aspects of camera that I prefer. If somebody prefers Sony over Nikon, no problem, that's their choice. Does not matter one bit to me. I can only choose what camera works best for me and fit my need the best and that's all that matters to me (well, may be to other people as well as Nikon will need enough customers to keep them afloat ).



Sep 15, 2025 at 09:50 PM
EB-1
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p.4 #10 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


I thought this thread was about lens size.

I found the whole MILS transition pretty awful; and count me as not very happy with any of the 3 major brands during that time. Crummy AF, limited lens options, expensive memory cards, etc. all created a mess. We still don't have a full range of lenses for Nikon or Canon like with DSLRs, and Sony never did have the variety I needed. The late 2010s Nikon or Canon MILCs were unimpressive. I would have gladly purchased one more generation of DSLR at the time, but the video maffia was already in full force so MILS was required.

EBH



Sep 15, 2025 at 09:55 PM
 


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Vento
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p.4 #11 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


RoamingScott wrote:
This is some WILD revisionist history, even for you



It's not that wild, and at least in essence, it's quite close to the truth.

I remember well where I bought the Z6.
The alternatives in that price range at the time were the Canon R/RP or the Sony A7 III.
My basic premise at the time was to find the best MILC solution for adapting my MF lenses.
The Z6 was better than the Sony A7III in almost every aspect, except for its AF-C performance.

Canon was immediately out of the question.
As someone who also values the aesthetics of a product, the R/RP were an absolute no-go—ugly as sin.
Apart from that, Canon screwed me over once with the switch from FD to EF and the incompatibility of my lenses worth five figures, so never again.

Compared to the A7 III, the Z6 had a significantly better and higher-resolution EVF, a better, bigger and higher-resolution LCD, better IBIS, better low-light performance, and much better ergonomics.
EVF Nikon Z6 = 3 686 400-dot OLED, EVF Sony A7 III = 2 359 296-dot OLED.
LCD Nikon Z6 = 3.2' / 2 100 000-dot LCD, LCD Sony A7 III = 3' / 921 600-dot LCD.

I had absolutely no affinity for Nikon at that time.
My brands before that were Pentax, Canon and Mamiya.
Apart from a Nikon F-301, I had never owned any Nikon cameras before.
However, when analyzing the options, it quickly became clear that the Z6 was the best camera for my profile at the time.

The A7 III was actually behind in all these aspects, but it had a dual card slot, which was irrelevant to me, and was equipped with better AF, plus slightly better battery life.
But that was it.
In all other aspects, the Z6 was definitely the significantly better equipped camera and ahead of the A7 III.
Basically, Nikon got a lot right with the Gen1, and the models were better equipped than their competitors in many areas, but this was offset by the weak AF-C performance and the sluggish Expeed6.
In addition, a drama was created around the single card slot.

However, the Z6/Z7 were much better than their reputation at the time, which was almost exclusively reduced to the lack of a dual card slot and, rightly so, the weak AF-C performance.



Sep 16, 2025 at 03:12 AM
wind30
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p.4 #12 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Vento wrote:
It's not that wild, and at least in essence, it's quite close to the truth.

I remember well where I bought the Z6.
The alternatives in that price range at the time were the Canon R/RP or the Sony A7 III.
My basic premise at the time was to find the best MILC solution for adapting my MF lenses.
The Z6 was better than the Sony A7III in almost every aspect, except for its AF-C performance.

Canon was immediately out of the question.
As someone who also values the aesthetics of a product, the R/RP were an absolute no-go—ugly as sin.
Apart from that, Canon screwed me
...Show more

…. But most people use af….



Sep 16, 2025 at 03:40 AM
Vento
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p.4 #13 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


There's no question about that, but my post refers to the statements made by user bernardi: “The Z6/Z7 were best in class in most aspects but sensor readout speed/processor power and therefore AF-C,” and I would agree with him completely.
So definitely not a wild guess, but close to the truth.
How you weigh that up for yourself is a question of your individual profile, but does not alter the fundamental accuracy of his statement.



Sep 16, 2025 at 03:48 AM
bernardl
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p.4 #14 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Vento wrote:
There's no question about that, but my post refers to the statements made by user bernardi: “The Z6/Z7 were best in class in most aspects but sensor readout speed/processor power and therefore AF-C,” and I would agree with him completely.
So definitely not a wild guess, but close to the truth.
How you weigh that up for yourself is a question of your individual profile, but does not alter the fundamental accuracy of his statement.


Thank you.

Our friend RoamingScott is indeed the one attempting to revise history while accusing me of doing so (and of course while also purposely misrepresenting what I wrote).

And btw the AF of the Z6/Z7 was only poor for quick action tracking. It was actually pretty good in various situations, including low light ones. I remember shooting a night beach bbq with a Sony shooter friend of mine and the Z6 was better at focusing on static subjects in such conditions than the Sony mirrorless camera he was using. So not everything was dark and gloomy even in those days.

Cheers,
Bernard



Sep 16, 2025 at 06:08 AM
tctmp
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p.4 #15 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Vento wrote:
There's no question about that, but my post refers to the statements made by user bernardi: “The Z6/Z7 were best in class in most aspects but sensor readout speed/processor power and therefore AF-C,” and I would agree with him completely.
So definitely not a wild guess, but close to the truth.
How you weigh that up for yourself is a question of your individual profile, but does not alter the fundamental accuracy of his statement.


Luckily for current Nikon users, there were not enough people sharing your opinion then to prevent its market share from tanking. Otherwise, Nikon would still be slacking off today.



Sep 16, 2025 at 10:49 AM
RoamingScott
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p.4 #16 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


I've often said that Bernard is Nikon's biggest fanboy on FM. That's fine, but it doesn't make what he says objectively true


Sep 16, 2025 at 11:55 AM
bernardl
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p.4 #17 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?



RoamingScott wrote:
I've often said that Bernard is Nikon's biggest fanboy on FM. That's fine, but it doesn't make what he says objectively true


Well, sticking to what you know may help your credibility. Even if I am aware that facts and reality aren’t that fashionable in some parts these days.

Because what I wrote was objectively true as others with first hand experience, and without your tainted Sony eyes, have confirmed. The whole of what I wrote of course, not your carefully edited fragment.

But it’s pretty transparent you know. The moment you decide to pick some words and use them out of context you have admitted that my point as is is too credible to tackle.

And this isn’t the first time I see you do it. Your recent comments on the ZR carry the same DNA.

Cheers,
Bernard



Sep 16, 2025 at 04:18 PM
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p.4 #18 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Hopefully people finally come to the realization that mirrorless isn't lighter. Sure there's some potential that isnt realized if you put a 2lb or so 50mm on it

Even the Sony 50/1.2 weighs over 2x the excellent 50/1.2 AIS I used to own. None of these are light really



Sep 16, 2025 at 11:58 PM
urbanwild
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p.4 #19 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


I still use my Z7 for landscapes when I don't want to take my Z8. It's fantastic in every way still that I intended to use it when I bought it. With that said, the AF was / is atrocious for moving objects and when there is low light. The Z9 and Z8 saved Nikon in my opinion as they were absolutely clobbered by the mass marketing that focused on cAF to the point that there was nothing else to focus on (pun intended).

Lots of people jumped ship from Nikon and moved to Sony, then lots to Canon with the R5 and R6. The dollars and market share certainly count in terms of public opinion.

That said, there's more to a camera than autofocus.....hence I still really enjoy the Z7 to this day. The past is now the past and probably not worth focusing on now (another pun intended).



Sep 17, 2025 at 12:39 AM
Lance B
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p.4 #20 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


AmbientMike wrote:
Hopefully people finally come to the realization that mirrorless isn't lighter. Sure there's some potential that isnt realized if you put a 2lb or so 50mm on it

Even the Sony 50/1.2 weighs over 2x the excellent 50/1.2 AIS I used to own. None of these are light really


I think that lenses could be lighter, but we expect more nowadays. If they made a 50 f1.4 for Z mount that was only as good as the F mount, I am sure it could be made smaller and lighter. The point is, we want to progress to better IQ because ML allows for it.



Sep 17, 2025 at 01:39 AM
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