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Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?

  
 
bernardl
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p.3 #1 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Dj R wrote:
It is definitely odd that Canon and Nikon came out and said, our new mounts are the best, b/c they are bigger and give us greater flexibility. they stated how Sony's mount was too small, which would limit them.

And here we are, with giant canon and nikon lenses.

So, yes, it is a valid question. And size matters to some people. More so, than others. For me, I deal with it, b/c I see value in the big picture. No pun intended.


Some Nikon lenses are big, some are the most compact/lightest there is. The 14-24mm f2.8, new 24-70mm f2.8 mkII, many of their tele lenses… fit in the category. For the primes they decided to target the highest possible level of image quality and reached their target.

They never claimed that the Z mount was going to be used only to generate more compact lenses, just that it is one way to leverage the flexibility offered by the Z mount.

The new 24-70mm f2.8 is a revolutionary design that marks a shift in how modern lenses are designed. It has only 14 elements vs the 20 in the recent Sony competitor without apparent downside in image quality. This is the least spoken aspect of the new lens but IMHO is as important as the new motors.

There is little doubt that other lenses will benefit from those advances and get more compact/lighter without image quality drops.

To me photography is only about images. My own comfort is totally secondary. I will always carry the best possible equipment that fits the bill of the mission. Size is an enabler at best. I like the priorities set by Nikon. They put images at the center. Uncompromised results. Same for video btw. The Zr is compromised in some ways from an UI point of view, but not in terms of video quality nor audio.

Cheers,
Bernard

Edited on Sep 11, 2025 at 10:36 PM · View previous versions



Sep 11, 2025 at 04:40 PM
chasdfg
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p.3 #2 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


While I wish Nikon made smaller f1.2 lenses, now that more of their lens lineup has been fleshed out, I can understand better why their f1.2 lenses are the way they are. A lot of people wished the first set of "consumer" S primes (f1.8s) were a bit of a letdown because of the lack of glamour in the f1.8 aperture (hey, the Leica APO Summicrons are f2, but the Nikon f1.8s don't carry the benefit of history with a name like "Summicron" alongside the f1.8 badge), but if those lenses were f1.4, there would be little place for a future "vintage"/alternative f1.8 lineup (like the f1.4s are now), and would compete with any f1.2 lineup Nikon would release. Now we have choices, just whether those choices fit your wants. There is no stopping one from switching to Sony just because their lens "philsophy" suits you better. That's what it's all about isn't it? Camera and lens arms race - all it takes is 1 lens to make someone consider the switch.

As for the mount size, I suspect Nikon chose a large mount almost as a response to the constraint of the F-mount that restricted its lens designs for 60 years. They couldn't produce autofocus f1.2 lenses while Canon had an f1.2 stable. I never saw the large mount as a promise or hint at smaller lenses, just more varied and different lens designs. The Noct 0.95 is case in point. The f1.8 lenses that Nikon released early on are an indicator of this too - perhaps it was never the intent to produce small glass, just better optics. The obsession with miniturisation from mirrorless has come from the early days and promise of mirrorless, but even the Sony cameras have become larger. Mirrorless is so much more than just the shrinking of lenses and cameras, though I wouldn't complain if I had an 85mm f1.2 Z the size of an 85mm f1.4 GMII. The new 24-70 f2.8 II is very tempting to me because of its weight, and this is coming from someone who shoots primes because of speed and size.



Sep 11, 2025 at 10:09 PM
Masque
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p.3 #3 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


I know this is a simple contribution to this discussion, but I will say that this question of size weighed heavily on my mind prior to actually using the lenses in question. But all of this disappeared once I was shooting with them.

The 50/1.2 is a monster in size, but it's even more a monster in performance. The 85/1.2 as well, with its own signature. Admittedly I'm running these all on a human frame built to support a collapsing bridge or carry ALL the groceries in at once, but I never once think of the weight while shooting these incredible beauties.

The rendering renders them weightless.

Admittedly they do limit packing options a bit.



Sep 11, 2025 at 10:37 PM
Nifty Fifty
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p.3 #4 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Masque wrote:
I never once think of the weight while shooting these incredible beauties.
The rendering renders them weightless.


At the very latest when one is forced to put forward such arguments, everything has actually been said and no further attempts at justification are necessary.





Sep 12, 2025 at 01:02 AM
Keunish
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p.3 #5 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Masque wrote:
I know this is a simple contribution to this discussion, but I will say that this question of size weighed heavily on my mind prior to actually using the lenses in question. But all of this disappeared once I was shooting with them.

The 50/1.2 is a monster in size, but it's even more a monster in performance. The 85/1.2 as well, with its own signature. Admittedly I'm running these all on a human frame built to support a collapsing bridge or carry ALL the groceries in at once, but I never once think of the weight while shooting these incredible
...Show more

I agree about the rendering of the 50mm f1.2, however if we speak about sharpness performance and having owned most 50mm f1.2/f1.4 (sometimes with two copies), it's not the sharpest at fast apertures, the 50mm Z is sharp enough at f1.2 and f1.4 but the GM f.1.2 and even the Lumix S Pro easily outperform the Nikon in the center.



Sep 12, 2025 at 02:08 AM
bernardl
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p.3 #6 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Keunish wrote:
I agree about the rendering of the 50mm f1.2, however if we speak about sharpness performance and having owned most 50mm f1.2/f1.4 (sometimes with two copies), it's not the sharpest at fast apertures, the 50mm Z is sharp enough at f1.2 and f1.4 but the GM f.1.2 and even the Lumix S Pro easily outperform the Nikon in the center.


True, even if the gap is small, but that minor sharpness difference impacts the look of images a lot less than the bokeh and transition away from the plane of sharpness.

Nikon is obviously given more weight to rendering in their design optimization compared to rw sharpness. Even if raw sharpness remains very high. This is for example super clear in the 180-600mm vs 200-600mm. The Sony is a few % sharper but the bokeh of the Nikon is much nicer.

Cheers,
Bernard



Sep 12, 2025 at 02:25 AM
Keunish
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p.3 #7 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


bernardl wrote:
True, even if the gap is small, but that minor sharpness difference impacts the look of images a lot less than the bokeh and transition away from the plane of sharpness.

Nikon is obviously given more weight to rendering in their design optimization compared to rw sharpness. Even if raw sharpness remains very high. This is for example super clear in the 180-600mm vs 200-600mm. The Sony is a few % sharper but the bokeh of the Nikon is much nicer.

Cheers,
Bernard


One could say adding a bit of "photoshop bokeh" could reduce the difference in bokeh, but I agree about the transitions. Futhermore, in video it is much more difficult to add more background blur.

However, in my opinion, the extra sharpness and also the extra DOF (even at the same aperture the Nikon has less DOF at the point of focus) I get out of my PanaLeica 50mm S Pro wide open give me a bit more roundness, volume and dimensionality resulting in a bit more true to life picture (this is something I also see on the 35mm Nikon f1.2S I just bought). The PanaLeica is not my first choice for portrait because I much prefer the Nikon 50mm f1.2S for this type of photography but I'm glad to own both and to use the S Pro for street photography or when I want to get my subject to feel a bit more "3D". In my view, every lens is a compromise and I don't think the perfect lens exist for every scenario.

About the sharpness difference between Sony and Nikon lenses, I maybe wrong but when using my Sony FE lenses on my Nikon cameras (by example the A7III and the Z6III with more or less 24MP) and pixel peep a lot I always feel my Sony raw files are a bit more sharp than my Nikon, even with lenses like the 135mm GM, which is not wide at all. Like if extra sharpening was baked in the Sony raw files.
Of course it can be because of the adapter too, I don't know.



Sep 12, 2025 at 03:51 AM
nhmorgan
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p.3 #8 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


I appreciate the Nikon approach more than the Sony approach. Nikon has a history that keeps it working in the tradition that test charts aren't the most important thing. Comparing something like the Nikon 35mm 1.4 to the Sony GM 35 1.4 is an apples to oranges comparison. One prioritizes sharpness and the other character and cost. I see many Sony fans often suggesting character is a lazy answer for lenses not being perfect, but it's not. Sony seems to pay very little attention to the unique look a lens creates (I also think this is why their camera's files can be so hard to work with; they think the colors are good enough, so don't put a lot of resources into color science). And yes, lenses absolutely contribute to the color of the image. Go shoot a gray card in a controlled lighting environment and switch lenses and see how colors can shift. How lenses respond to off axis light can also influence the color rendition.

Very few of the Sony lenses have character. All the newer GM lenses are sharp without exception, but very few of them render well. I think the 50mm 1.2 is one of the exceptions. I liked the images I got from the 50-150, too, surprisingly, even at the wide end. I also loved the 400mm GM, but that's one that I've read people complain isn't sharp enough. I thought it had nice character to it. For some applications, that pursuit of lab perfect lenses is great. If I'm shooting astro, I want a perfect lens. I've said it before, but I think the rise in popularity of bird photography has also produced a legion of pixel peepers, too, and has driven lens development toward birder lenses and away from quirky lenses like the amazing Nikon 200mm f2, another lens that strikes a perfect balance between class-leading sharpness and rendering, but it also weights literally twice as much as Sony's 300mm GM. The 300mm GM is a technical feat, but that lens makes tradeoffs. It has terrible aperture vignetting and cat's eye bokeh and the overall look of images lacks smoothness.

Nikon's 85mm 1.2s is a GOAT lens. It has a beautiful unique look to it, while keeping center sharpness that was F5.6 corner performance for the best lenses 20 years ago. But I think we've reached the point where chasing sharpness is not only pointless, it's bad for photography. The lenses are out resolving the sensors and I don't like that look. It creates images that look oversharp and details, edges, and textures start to behave in unpleasing ways. I liked the plena and owned it twice, but sold it both times because 1) I like natural lens vignette, and 2) I found it to be too sharp. When it comes to the 50mm range, I've gone back to using a 58mm 1.4G more than any of my other 50mm lenses. That lens absolutely sucks on a test chart. But in actual usage, its softness and massive field curvature makes unique and beautiful images. So, while I don't own them, I'm really glad that nikon makes the 50mm 1.4 and 35mm 1.4 lenses; they aren't supposed to perform like a GM lens, but that's not the point of them. Sony's philosophy seems to be to make technically very impressive lenses that are small, sharp, and contrasty, that also make compromises in focus breathing, vignetting and distortion that can be corrected without much penalty in software. That's fine, but I think that also speaks to Sony not being a photography company, but an electronics company. I liked Gerald Undone's description of the 85mm GMii as "the lensiest of lenses."

Lastly, I think using third party adapters as a tool for comparison is a fool's errand. The ETZ is an impressive piece of kit that works very well, especially for non-moving subjects, but it does effect corner performance (I assume the thickness is a tiny bit off) and the AF performance is about 70-80% of native glass, and is especially weak on fast moving subjects moving toward the camera. It does ok with fast moving subjects moving across the frame.



Sep 12, 2025 at 07:06 AM
MazeRunner
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p.3 #9 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


They're all simply amazing. I got the 50/1.2S and was hesitant to get the 85.
Then I saw some sample images and got the 85/1.2S.
When the 35/1.2S came out I pre-ordered it as NPS and got it immediately.

No regrets with any of the three purchases.



Sep 12, 2025 at 10:08 PM
philip_pj
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p.3 #10 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


for NH:

Art Adams points out that high resolution in lenses ‘doesn’t necessarily mean they are sharp, because sharp is different’, ‘sharp is how you reproduce that resolution.

And you can do it in different ways. High resolution can capture all of a person’s face, ‘and the result is they look very natural. We are not going to give you something that is artificially sharp or artificially soft’. ‘When it comes to faces, we are going to give you the most natural reproduction.’

YT title: ARRI Tech Talk: Unpacking the Characteristics of Signature Primes & Zooms

10.00 into it.



Sep 12, 2025 at 11:13 PM
 


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Nifty Fifty
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p.3 #11 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


nhmorgan wrote:
I appreciate the Nikon approach more than the Sony approach. Nikon has a history that keeps it working in the tradition that test charts aren't the most important thing. Comparing something like the Nikon 35mm 1.4 to the Sony GM 35 1.4 is an apples to oranges comparison. One prioritizes sharpness and the other character and cost. I see many Sony fans often suggesting character is a lazy answer for lenses not being perfect, but it's not. Sony seems to pay very little attention to the unique look a lens creates (I also think this is why their camera's files
...Show more
Of course, slight differences exist, often even between lenses from the same manufacturer; this has always been the case and is completely beyond question. And of course, some brands are loved by some and hated by others for their warmer rendering. However, your attempt to create the impression that current Z Nikkors offer "better colors" than comparable "GM" lenses is quite ridiculous and completely unfounded, like so many things that are repeated like a mantra in such discussions.

It's funny to see how the age-old Nikon Canon feud has evolved into a Nikon Sony feud.





Sep 13, 2025 at 03:35 AM
Ripolini
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p.3 #12 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Nifty Fifty wrote:
Of course, slight differences exist, often even between lenses from the same manufacturer; this has always been the case and is completely beyond question. And of course, some brands are loved by some and hated by others for their warmer rendering.


To develop my NEFs, I mainly use Capture One 22 Pro. The colors it gives me are different from those of NX Studio.
The same thing happens when I shoot with Zeiss ZF.2 lenses and develop with the same raw converter: Zeiss colors are different from Nikon colors (on the same body).
Then there are other things, probably more important ... for example, Capture One does not correct chromatic aberrations well. NX does better, and it also manages to correct LoCA well, which is no small feat.
An Italian-French friend of mine works for Nat Geo. Years ago, after trying the Z6 and Z7, he switched from Nikon (DSLR) to Sony. I asked him how the color was, and he replied, “The same.”



Sep 13, 2025 at 04:43 AM
Nifty Fifty
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p.3 #13 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


I vaguely remember(I was never a gear nerd) that in the analog era, lens tests in photography magazines always measured the transmission of the three color channels and presented them as a bar chart. That must have gone out of fashion at some point.
Perhaps it's because, in the internet age, anyone can style himselve as a tester, and scientific, reproducible test scenarios are a thing of the past. Today, the marketing rhetoric of manufacturers of character lenses is more popular to their followers, and one pseudo-look follows the next.



Sep 13, 2025 at 05:09 AM
nhmorgan
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p.3 #14 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Nifty Fifty wrote:
Of course, slight differences exist, often even between lenses from the same manufacturer; this has always been the case and is completely beyond question. And of course, some brands are loved by some and hated by others for their warmer rendering. However, your attempt to create the impression that current Z Nikkors offer "better colors" than comparable "GM" lenses is quite ridiculous and completely unfounded, like so many things that are repeated like a mantra in such discussions.

It's funny to see how the age-old Nikon Canon feud has evolved into a Nikon Sony feud.




If by unfounded you mean based on literally millions of professional images, then, yes, unfounded. It's not just about the color cast of the lens; it's about contrast, contra light flare, flare resistance, lens coating reactions to light, specular highlights, LoCA, spherical aberration, etc. All contribute to the "color" of an image. But no, I didn't say that it's just the lenses. The RAW files Sonys produce, even on their newest cameras take a lot more "work" for me to get to where I like and I find the editing process much more frustrating. It's a myth that it's easy to match RAW files from different brands, because RAW files are not all created equal. There is a lot that going on in how the photons end up as RAW files that influences what you have to work with. And no mantras here, just a lot of experience in a variety of conditions with both Sony cameras and Nikon cameras. I hugely prefer what Nikon can do and the range of different aesthetics their lenses can create. But I've posted before on this forum that when it comes to 50mm, I think that Sony's 50mm 1.2 GM is the best both in size, but also in performance. I'm also not a huge fan of the Nikon 35mm 1.2s.



Sep 13, 2025 at 11:23 AM
tctmp
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p.3 #15 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


bernardl wrote:
It is if you are after a realistic and pleasant colors look in various types of lights, in particular artificial ones


Except realistic and pleasant usually are conflicting criteria, especially under a variety of conditions. While I tend to agree Nikon's color seems to be nicer, it just means the profile is tuned better to people's general preference.

bernardl wrote:
Some Nikon lenses are big, some are the most compact/lightest there is. The 14-24mm f2.8, new 24-70mm f2.8 mkII, many of their tele lenses… fit in the category. For the primes they decided to target the highest possible level of image quality and reached their target.

They never claimed that the Z mount was going to be used only to generate more compact lenses, just that it is one way to leverage the flexibility offered by the Z mount.


Well, sometimes people put in a lot of effort and put out a kick ass product. Other times, they slack off and take the easy way out. Just because some people/team perform at a high level at one point, doesn't mean they do that all the time. That's very common. Heck, we don't even know if they are the same engineers/managers.



Sep 13, 2025 at 12:37 PM
Nifty Fifty
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p.3 #16 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


nhmorgan wrote
If by unfounded you mean based on literally millions of professional images, then, yes, unfounded.

Well, if you're talking about "professional photos," those are the least suitable to support your thesis, because they are almost 100% professionally edited, and there are millions of professional photos with great color that have nothing to do with Nikon.


nhmorgan wroteIt's not just about the color cast of the lens; it's about contrast, contra light flare, flare resistance, lens coating reactions to light, specular highlights, LoCA, spherical aberration, etc. All contribute to the "color" of an image.
And of course, only Nikon knows how to handle all of this in such a way that something appealing emerges in the end. I won't try to contradict, because that would be like trying to convince a believer that there is no God.

Be that as it may. When I recently revisited Phillip Reeve and took a look at the sample images from the latest review, I couldn't suppress a smile at the outstanding native Nikon colors.
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-lomography-petzval-55mm-f-1-7-bokeh-control-mark-ii-art-lens/#More_Sample_Images




Sep 14, 2025 at 04:43 AM
chasdfg
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p.3 #17 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?




tctmp wrote:
Except realistic and pleasant usually are conflicting criteria, especially under a variety of conditions. While I tend to agree Nikon's color seems to be nicer, it just means the profile is tuned better to people's general preference.

Well, sometimes people put in a lot of effort and put out a kick ass product. Other times, they slack off and take the easy way out. Just because some people/team perform at a high level at one point, doesn't mean they do that all the time. That's very common. Heck, we don't even know if they are the same engineers/managers.


I cannot imagine any Nikon team putting in less effort than required for any product. Too much money goes into R&D and marketing for a substandard product to go out. It might not tick all the boxes or may be a particular executive's pet product, or a statement piece like the Noct-Nikkor 0.95, but for this to happen in a Japanese company and one which is publicly listed is difficult to imagine (i do know it is commonplace in many workplaces and companies).



Sep 14, 2025 at 09:10 AM
nhmorgan
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p.3 #18 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


Nifty Fifty wrote:
Well, if you're talking about "professional photos," those are the least suitable to support your thesis, because they are almost 100% professionally edited, and there are millions of professional photos with great color that have nothing to do with Nikon.



Taken and edited by me. Probably close to a million images with Sony cameras and GM lenses. Easily over a million with Nikon cameras. Take it or leave it. With some exceptions, most of the Sony GM lenses have a look that I don't particularly like and I find the Sony cameras take more work to get to even a starting point *I* like. *I* don't feel like Sony puts a lot of effort into their color science. If they do, then, *I* don't think they are as good at it as other brands. The initial thing that prompted a response was the claim that the 35mm 1.4 Nikon Z is inferior to the 35mm GM. I said that's an apples to oranges comparison because the Nikon 35mm 1.4 isn't trying to be a 35mm GM. The 35mm GM tries to be an everything to everyone lens that excels in technical performance. What tradeoffs it does make, it does so in service of size. That's fine and that seems to be the philosophy for all GM lenses. Sony makes excellent lenses that are indeed technically very impressive. There are also many many many wonderful images taken with them. But to use a painters analogy, they only make one kind of paintbrush, just in different sizes. *I* appreciate that Nikon has a history of making some more niche offerings and doesn't always seem to be a slave to the MTF charts. The impression that I get is that Sony doesn't really prioritize rendering at least not at the top of their list. Nikon has 3 different 35mm lenses for Z mount for example. So, my point is that for my taste, I like to work in a system that has those options and that takes a more diverse approach to lens development. It also helps that there are 40+ years of autofocus lenses to choose from for Nikon.



Sep 14, 2025 at 11:18 AM
tctmp
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p.3 #19 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?


chasdfg wrote:
I cannot imagine any Nikon team putting in less effort than required for any product. Too much money goes into R&D and marketing for a substandard product to go out. It might not tick all the boxes or may be a particular executive's pet product, or a statement piece like the Noct-Nikkor 0.95, but for this to happen in a Japanese company and one which is publicly listed is difficult to imagine (i do know it is commonplace in many workplaces and companies).


Then explain why the initial Z6/Z7 were so crappy even though they had years to prepare it. And why D850's CFE support (which is very close to the XQD firmware they already had) came years after they announced that they would implement it. If it's not effort, then it's capability which is even worse.

Btw, today's Japanese companies and workers are not what they were 70/80 years ago. The mentality is not much different from other developed countries. if you can't imagine it, how about Takata and all the auto companies involved in it.



Sep 14, 2025 at 11:42 AM
chasdfg
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p.3 #20 · Why is the Nikon 35 1.2s and 50 1.2s so large compared to others?



tctmp wrote:
Then explain why the initial Z6/Z7 were so crappy even though they had years to prepare it. And why D850's CFE support (which is very close to the XQD firmware they already had) came years after they announced that they would implement it. If it's not effort, then it's capability which is even worse.

Btw, today's Japanese companies and workers are not what they were 70/80 years ago. The mentality is not much different from other developed countries. if you can't imagine it, how about Takata and all the auto companies involved in it.


I stand corrected, particularly in relation to auto manufacturers because there are lives at stake. As for the Z6 and Z7 and D850 CFe support, I was not aware of the Z6 and Z7 being viewed as crappy and not aware of the lack of CFe support (or belated?) for the D850 - the latter because I was not shooting Nikon at the time and the former because I always thought the Z6 and Z7 were "ok" first gen products. Behind Sony but not awful, but this is coming from someone who isn't Nikon's target audience (to me AF is a bonus, and I am not bothered too much by sensor tech in today's age). My comment was an overgeneralisation on Japanese companies and listed companies, with plenty of real world examples that fly in the face of that comment. I should rephrase it - I cannot imagine the Nikon that we know today pushing out a substandard product, but where we draw the line to define "Nikon we know today", I don't know, and again I stand corrected about specific issues or discontentment people face about Nikon gear in recent times.

Btw for clarity, my use of the phrase "I cannot imagine Nikon" was merely my opinion based on my impression of current Nikon, coupled with an overgeneralised statement about Japanese (listed) companies. It was not a phase used to correct anyone or to insinuate that someone is deluded (and hence imagined "wrongly"). My mind never strayed so far as to consider other industries though I'm sure there are camera companies that have produced substandard products.



Sep 14, 2025 at 10:11 PM
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