brick33308 wrote:
thanks Fred. It's my understanding that after Kolari modification, the white balance issue is significantly reduced from what it would have been shooting M lenses on the Sony without the modification. Specifically I think after Kolari modification, the white balance issue is with lenses 28mm and wider, and that the effect is largely toward the edges with it being not really an issue center frame. Do you concur?
These are two separate things. White balance deals mostly with temperature and tint, while what you're describing is the reduction of the cover glass thickness (to match Leica's) after the conversion. So yes, your 28mm M-lens will perform the same in the corners on the Kolari Sony A7CR as it does on the M11 since they now share the same sensor thickness.
However, because of the new coverglass, colors won't be as accurate as before the conversion, which is why you should fine-tune the WB as I showed. Personally, I love the colors from the converted A7CR...they look almost identical to my A7R II once the WB tweak is applied. The ability to autofocus M lenses is something no Leica provide, including the new "V".
Fred Miranda wrote:
These are two separate things. White balance deals mostly with temperature and tint, while what you're describing is the reduction of the cover glass thickness (to match Leica's) after the conversion. So yes, your 28mm M-lens will perform the same in the corners on the Kolari Sony A7CR as it does on the M11 since they now share the same sensor thickness.
However, because of the new coverglass, colors won't be as accurate as before the conversion, which is why you should fine-tune the WB as I showed. Personally, I love the colors from the converted A7CR...they look almost identical to my A7R II once the WB tweak is applied. The ability to autofocus M lenses is something no Leica provide, including the new "V"....Show more →
thanks, I'm sold. I've already placed an order for the A7CR (from someone I bought from before), and a Techart PRO Autofocus Adapter II (Leica M to Sony E), and will send it to Kolari as soon as it arrives. And when I get it back will fine tune WB as you suggest.
brick33308 wrote:
thanks, I'm sold. I've already placed an order for the A7CR (from someone I bought from before), and a Techart PRO Autofocus Adapter II (Leica M to Sony E), and will send it to Kolari as soon as it arrives. And when I get it back will fine tune WB as you suggest.
Thanks for this A7CR discussion. Instead of getting an uber expensive M-V I will gladly try the setup with Kolari and Techart Pro Autofocus Adapter II. It will be some months due to travel, but will start the process soon. Thanks so very much Fred.
BTW is there any rumor about a new model coming perhaps with better EVF?
stgrove wrote:
Thanks for this A7CR discussion. Instead of getting an uber expensive M-V I will gladly try the setup with Kolari and Techart Pro Autofocus Adapter II. It will be some months due to travel, but will start the process soon. Thanks so very much Fred.
BTW is there any rumor about a new model coming perhaps with better EVF?
P.S. I hate Sony menus!!
FYI: The Techart LM-EA9 "Version II" is actually the same as the original LM-EM9. It was just released later in other markets and labeled as Version II. I've had both, and they look and perform identically.
my new A7CR arrives today, my Techart LM-EA9 "Version II" arrives tomorrow. I'll test the Techart with a M lens, and if all is good as I expect it will be, the A7CR will be sent the same day to Kolari.
Thanks Fred, down the road I'll return to this thread and post pics.
If this truly works well, I just may sell my Q3 in favor of what is essentially a Q3 but with interchangeable lenses.
brick33308 wrote:
my new A7CR arrives today, my Techart LM-EA9 "Version II" arrives tomorrow. I'll test the Techart with a M lens, and if all is good as I expect it will be, the A7CR will be sent the same day to Kolari.
Thanks Fred, down the road I'll return to this thread and post pics.
If this truly works well, I just may sell my Q3 in favor of what is essentially a Q3 but with interchangeable lenses.
Keep in mind that AF with your M-lenses is really just a bonus. The real advantage is being able to use them on a super-compact body with IBIS and no image degradation from the sensor stack. Plus, the adapter works like a close-up extension, letting your M-lenses focus much closer by extending about 5mm at minimum distance.
That said, temper your expectations with the LM-EA9 adapter. It's impressive and can even handle tracking and Eye-AF, but it's still not the same as using a native modern AF lens. For the most reliable results, focusing works best in the center...so focus and recompose when needed.
I got the A7CR and techart, put on my 28 Elmarit to test it, and wow was surprised by how snappy and quick the auto focus was. Agree it's probably not best for rapidly moving people, but to shoot street like I'm accustomed to doing with the Q3, it was perfect.
The A7CR is on its way to Kolari. When I get it back, if the Leica M glass truly looks as good as Fred has reported, I may very well get rid of my Q3 now that I can have a comparable camera that allows for all lenses instead of just the fixed 28 on the Q3. We'll see.
Fred Miranda wrote:
These are two separate things. White balance deals mostly with temperature and tint, while what you're describing is the reduction of the cover glass thickness (to match Leica's) after the conversion. So yes, your 28mm M-lens will perform the same in the corners on the Kolari Sony A7CR as it does on the M11 since they now share the same sensor thickness.
However, because of the new coverglass, colors won't be as accurate as before the conversion, which is why you should fine-tune the WB as I showed. Personally, I love the colors from the converted A7CR...they look almost identical to my A7R II once the WB tweak is applied. The ability to autofocus M lenses is something no Leica provide, including the new "V"....Show more →
Fred are there any M lenses Voigt or Leica that do not perform well on the Kolari modified A7CR?
mark1958 wrote:
Fred are there any M lenses Voigt or Leica that do not perform well on the Kolari modified A7CR?
None. You're basically getting M11-level performance and resolution on the A7CR, and all lenses deliver the same resolution and contrast across the frame.
Fred Miranda wrote:
None. You're basically getting M11-level performance and resolution on the A7CR, and all lenses deliver the same resolution and contrast across the frame.
I don't have any solid info on this, but it seems feasible for Leica to combine an "electronic" rangefinder with an EVF in the M. They could eliminate the mechanical patch and RF mechanism, while keeping the optical viewfinder intact. With that setup, a switch could toggle the OVF into a full EVF mode (similar to the Fuji X100).
The focusing patch could then be generated electronically, movable anywhere in the frame since it's no longer mechanical, and the framelines could also be digital. Such a design would appeal to traditional rangefinder shooters while also satisfying those who prefer the external Visoflex or dislike relying solely on the mechanical RF patch.
If Leica replaced the mechanical RF patch with a digital overlay, lenses wouldn't need perfect cam calibration. Focus would be accurate regardless of lens tuning, keeping the RF feel but with digital precision. That could be great news even for those who prefer focusing this way.
if Leica really wanted to hit it out of the park, they could additionally incorporate a viewer on the top plate. Currently when I want to be really discrete shooting street, the visoflex 2 tilted up works like a charm.
Seeing the new X2D II with LiDAR which is a type of rangefinder...We will see 😁
Fred Miranda wrote:
I don't have any solid info on this, but it seems feasible for Leica to combine an "electronic" rangefinder with an EVF in the M. They could eliminate the mechanical patch and RF mechanism, while keeping the optical viewfinder intact. With that setup, a switch could toggle the OVF into a full EVF mode (similar to the Fuji X100).
The focusing patch could then be generated electronically, movable anywhere in the frame since it's no longer mechanical, and the framelines could also be digital. Such a design would appeal to traditional rangefinder shooters while also satisfying those who prefer the external Visoflex or dislike relying solely on the mechanical RF patch.
If Leica replaced the mechanical RF patch with a digital overlay, lenses wouldn't need perfect cam calibration. Focus would be accurate regardless of lens tuning, keeping the RF feel but with digital precision. That could be great news even for those who prefer focusing this way....Show more →
Fred Miranda wrote:
I don't have any solid info on this, but it seems feasible for Leica to combine an "electronic" rangefinder with an EVF in the M. They could eliminate the mechanical patch and RF mechanism, while keeping the optical viewfinder intact. With that setup, a switch could toggle the OVF into a full EVF mode (similar to the Fuji X100).
The focusing patch could then be generated electronically, movable anywhere in the frame since it's no longer mechanical, and the framelines could also be digital. Such a design would appeal to traditional rangefinder shooters while also satisfying those who prefer the external Visoflex or dislike relying solely on the mechanical RF patch.
If Leica replaced the mechanical RF patch with a digital overlay, lenses wouldn't need perfect cam calibration. Focus would be accurate regardless of lens tuning, keeping the RF feel but with digital precision. That could be great news even for those who prefer focusing this way....Show more →
The digital frameline experience on the X100 is pretty miserable, to want the M to morph into that seems like it defeats the entire lineage and point of M cameras on a whole.
I really don't enjoy using EVF with Leica M. I had 020 with M10s now Viso 2 with M11. Somehow it's just not the same as using RF. Went to Istanbul and Kauai this summer. I didn't touch Viso 2 once. Obvious if it's a hybrid, it's a whole new story. It doesn't sound like it's going to be that but more a completely removal of RF.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I don't have any solid info on this, but it seems feasible for Leica to combine an "electronic" rangefinder with an EVF in the M. They could eliminate the mechanical patch and RF mechanism, while keeping the optical viewfinder intact. With that setup, a switch could toggle the OVF into a full EVF mode (similar to the Fuji X100).
The focusing patch could then be generated electronically, movable anywhere in the frame since it's no longer mechanical, and the framelines could also be digital. Such a design would appeal to traditional rangefinder shooters while also satisfying those who prefer the external Visoflex or dislike relying solely on the mechanical RF patch.
If Leica replaced the mechanical RF patch with a digital overlay, lenses wouldn't need perfect cam calibration. Focus would be accurate regardless of lens tuning, keeping the RF feel but with digital precision. That could be great news even for those who prefer focusing this way....Show more →
Yes-
The goal with this design should be to disrupt themelsves and put the M11 line of cameras out of business. They need to see where the camera market is going not where its been-
Thats why companies like Blockbuster don't exsist anymore. They rested on their laurels. Disruption is going to happen, will be it be internal disruption or will another camera maker do it.
Time will tell but this feels pivotal for Leica IMO-
The goal with this design should be to disrupt themelsves and put the M11 line of cameras out of business. They need to see where the camera market is going not where its been-
Thats why companies like Blockbuster don't exsist anymore. They rested on their laurels. Disruption is going to happen, will be it be internal disruption or will another camera maker do it.
Time will tell but this feels pivotal for Leica IMO-
Exactly...and it’s worth noting that the release of this "V" model doesn’t mean Leica will stop making full RF film or digital cameras. It won't make your current camera obsolete, especially if you value RF focusing. It's likely just another option to broaden their market and move more M lenses.
Let's be honest. Many Leica M shooters use the Visoflex most of the time. It's not my preference, but I am clearly not their target market.
I'm calling BS on the optical viewfinder rumor. It is based on a statement that the camera has "no rangefinder window" and they inferred that this means it still has a viewfinder window - quite a stretch imo. I'm 99.9999% sure this thing will have just an EVF.
fjablo wrote:
I'm calling BS on the optical viewfinder rumor. It is based on a statement that the camera has "no rangefinder window" and they inferred that this means it still has a viewfinder window - quite a stretch imo. I'm 99.9999% sure this thing will have just an EVF.
I would say it is about 50/50 at this point. It is doable and Fuji figured out a version years ago. It is obviously not exactly like shooting with a rangefinder, but it provides an OVF and focusing aid. Leica could very well have been working on something like this for a while, so I would not be surprised if that is the case. Right now, though, nobody knows for sure except those very close to Leica and the project.
