I already own M11's with EVF on top. So what if it is inside at this point. I am now preferring my X2DII to any M since I can use the M lenses on it if I want manual focusing.
That said I prefer the larger old Hasselblad lenses since they do not vignette at all and produce stellar results. Sure the M lenses are easy to focus with the zoom in feature and focus peaking and are smaller, but as has been said many times, an M lens is best used on an M camera.
Horses for courses. Since I shoot less and less street due mainly to attacks which just have put me off, landscapes and environmental portraiture will keep me going.
stgrove wrote:
I already own M11's with EVF on top. So what if it is inside at this point. I am now preferring my X2DII to any M since I can use the M lenses on it if I want manual focusing.
That said I prefer the larger old Hasselblad lenses since they do not vignette at all and produce stellar results. Sure the M lenses are easy to focus with the zoom in feature and focus peaking and are smaller, but as has been said many times, an M lens is best used on an M camera.
Horses for courses. Since I shoot less and less street due mainly to attacks which just have put me off, landscapes and environmental portraiture will keep me going....Show more →
Yeah but that Visoflex stuck to the top of the hot shoe on an M camera is a very poor experience. Slow, awkward, unstable image. I hate using it. It is my expectation that the new EVF based camera will give an even better EVF experience that the current SL3 provides. If that turns out to be true then it will be a superb addition to the M lineup.
stgrove wrote:
Since I shoot less and less street due mainly to attacks which just have put me off, landscapes and environmental portraiture will keep me going.
I have never had a bad experience shooting street. Are you talking about physical attacks ? Or just the grumpy people that have always been a part of street shooting. We can't let them bother us any more than the other occasional irritants we encounter when out shooting. Who cares?
1bwana1 wrote:
Yeah but that Visoflex stuck to the top of the hot shoe on an M camera is a very poor experience. Slow, awkward, unstable image. I hate using it. It is my expectation that the new EVF based camera will give an even better EVF experience that the current SL3 provides. If that turns out to be true then it will be a superb addition to the M lineup.
Even if the new V is terrific, I somehow will pass this time. In that small space a 5.76 EVF is going to be a feat.
stgrove wrote:
I already own M11's with EVF on top. So what if it is inside at this point. I am now preferring my X2DII to any M since I can use the M lenses on it if I want manual focusing.
That said I prefer the larger old Hasselblad lenses since they do not vignette at all and produce stellar results. Sure the M lenses are easy to focus with the zoom in feature and focus peaking and are smaller, but as has been said many times, an M lens is best used on an M camera.
Horses for courses. Since I shoot less and less street due mainly to attacks which just have put me off, landscapes and environmental portraiture will keep me going....Show more →
The M has a long history of expedition photography, for me it continues with light carry outdoors, wildlife will never mug you for your camera. Expensive gear- most big city streets these days, no thanks, outdoors the biggest threat is no weather seal.
I’m mostly curious of what it means for the brand and their overall concept.
I’m not a potential buyer for a M11 evf or not but it’s interesting to observe.
The fact that they make an evf based model is not something that should be so extraordinary even if it’s a departure, but the all M brand that is quite the most important is structured about the legitimity of the M lenses, they are peculiar, they are rangefinder lenses, more costly, more complex.
The new model can ignore that and there something off in terms of strategy, I feel I’m missing something. Nothing that would bother me, on the contrary but just out of curiosity if I were to look being on Leica’s side.
That model could opens the possibility of giving birth to an M-mount more universal than ever though. That might be genious somehow, I don’t know.
It might be a very bold move from Leica, not so much the camera but what it implies lens wise.
Sonnar-7 wrote:
I’m mostly curious of what it means for the brand and their overall concept.
I’m not a potential buyer for a M11 evf or not but it’s interesting to observe.
The fact that they make an evf based model is not something that should be so extraordinary even if it’s a departure, but the all M brand that is quite the most important is structured about the legitimity of the M lenses, they are peculiar, they are rangefinder lenses, more costly, more complex.
The new model can ignore that and there something off in terms of strategy, I feel I’m missing something. Nothing that would bother me, on the contrary but just out of curiosity if I were to look being on Leica’s side.
That model could opens the possibility of giving birth to an M-mount more universal than ever though. That might be genious somehow, I don’t know.
It might be a very bold move from Leica, not so much the camera but what it implies lens wise....Show more →
We are so easily distracted from the very real heritage and value of the M lenses by the latest and greatest offering in the M camera body line. But in the end it is the lenses that provide the mosting interesting things in the M system. Like all other M bodies this new EVF based mirrorless body is just another option to use in exploring the amazing M lenses.
The lenses are what provide the most interest, value, and unique image making that define the Leica M experience for many of us. In that context this new body will likely find a very valuable place in the ecosystem.
1bwana1 wrote:
The lenses are what provide the most interest, value, and unique image making that define the Leica M experience for many of us. In that context this new body will likely find a very valuable place in the ecosystem.
They were very important to me when I was shooting film. Nowadays with modern lenses and post-processing, I can get the same result from any ecosystem.
I ended up using mainly Voigtlander lenses on my M11.
So nowadays and as said above, to me the M value is in the rangefinder. And sometimes I wonder if a Fuji X-E5 would not be a very good alternative and maybe even a better one.
Of course, this is just my opinion and I respect yours.
1bwana1 wrote:
I have never had a bad experience shooting street. Are you talking about physical attacks ? Or just the grumpy people that have always been a part of street shooting. We can't let them bother us any more than the other occasional irritants we encounter when out shooting. Who cares?
It would interesting to hear of other folk's experiences regarding the threats, intimidation, theft and abuse they have experienced when shooting 'Street'.
Thankfully, despite shooting over many years, in many countries, cultures and environments, my negative experiences have been few and far between. I've occasionally experienced unhealthy interest in my cameras which I've managed to deflect. I've been followed by gangs in Jodhpur, India, but by calling them out and confronting them they disappeared into the crowds as fast as they had appeared.
I'm naturally attracted to those areas generally considered to be off limits, poorer ghettos, red-light districts and known drug dealer areas. Somewhat surprisingly perhaps, but the safest places I've ever been with camera in hand have been the cities in Morocco, a society where even the mere presence of a camera can cause apoplexy. The people have been friendly, welcoming and helpful.
I have personally traveled to over 90 countries and most were easy if I was easy going. That said it seems developed countries are the most dangerous these days in my experiences. I still have a few more years left in me where my first overseas trip out of the USA was in 1966 and I never stopped. I still vividly remember trading one stick of Juicy Fruit gum for the Red Star a soldier removed from his own hat in Russia at the WWII Memorial in Moscow and this was at the height of the Cold War.
Agree the M lenses are precious. Thinking about the control cam inside current day M's and the 6 bit coding from lenses, I seem to think that any new Leica M camera must use these in the same way so what will the M11-V have-just an EVF in place of the RF mechanism. It seems the debate is exactly how it will function as an EVF. Implementation will be the key.
These days I do like big EVF's and 1x and that is very hard to find even in 5.76 EVF's.
If the M11-V doesn’t indeed take advantage of the control cam of the M lenses, the rigour of engineering of the line would be in jeopardy, and that is the all essence of such bodies. I do think the evf will use the rangefinder system of the lens somehow.
Maybe it will use the cam as a sort of switch to activate the focus patch, but IMO this is a prime opportunity to engineer a 'virtual' RF patch that leverages phase detect focus information directly off the sensor. The obvious advantage would be elimination of the need to calibrate/tune a mechanical rangefinder system but it would also provide the most precise focus information.
Use of PD focus information to facilitate focus is what would make a 'V' model unique in the M lineup. If it doesn't leverage this, then I'd agree it wouldn't seem like much more than an M + EVF, other than it would be built into the body in place of the OVF.
It looks like Leica ran into trademark problems with the "M12" name in the US. This camera will be released after the M11-V.
Milwaukee already holds the M12 trademark for a wide range of products, including some that overlap with electronics and optics. Leica even filed for the M12 trademark but the application was refused and later abandoned. That probably means we won't see an "M12" here, so they'll either skip the number altogether or come up with a variation.
