According to Leica Rumors, "Leica M11-V is the name of the rumored M camera with EVF and the official announcement is coming soon"
The name of the upcoming Leica M camera with EVF is rumored to be Leica M11-V. Some internal sources referred to the camera as Leica M-V, but I believe the final model version will be Leica M11-V, just like the M11-D, M11-P, and the M11-M (the M with EVF model will be based on the M11-P).
The official announcement is coming soon: the latest beta version of the Leica Fotos App already contains references for the Leica M11-V model, which suggests the official announcement will be in the next few weeks.
Previously Leica Rumors posted: "I already posted several leaked pictures from a recent Leica survey where they described different design update options, and one of them included an EVF.
If the rumors I received are correct, the new M11-V will have a clean top plate and no ISO dial. This makes sense becuase they probably needed more space to fit the EVF unit – see one of the leaked pictures below."
The Leica M12 and Leica with EVF (M11-V) are two different models. There will be no Leica M12 this year (2025), and maybe not even next year (unless it comes very late in 2026).
Leica M240 - 2012-2017 (P added 2014, M added 2015)
Leica M10 - 2017-2022 (P and D added 2018, M and R added 2020)
Leica M11 - 2022-present (P and M added 2023, D added 2024)
Based on this cadence I think we could expect an M12 in 2027, and this timing of late 2025 for maybe the final M11 feels about right.
Edit - thinking about this, I do wonder what new features the M12 could conceivably be exploring. 60MP is already a ton for a full frame sensor, and if we're staying on a rangefinder mechanism I can't imagine going much higher. What else is left to add that other competitors are offering?
Really curious what kind of MF assist tools this will bring. Currently, Canon has the best implementation but only with chipped lenses. Nikon is second best and there’s at least the TTartisan 6bit adapter to make their solution work with M lenses.
I’m sure Leica will come up with something good. The ideas shown in the pictures from their survey are already quite promising. E.g a digital rangefinder patch that can be moved around and/or has subject detection to jump to the eyes, etc
Fuji has that same sort of thing with the X-Pro cameras and it is pretty cool. Hopefully the EVF isn't modeled like a fighter jet cockpit like the Sony's seem to be.
I realize this is a slippery slope but the *only* thing I'd want digital M rangefinder is the horizontal level. If they could incorporate that into the rangefinder display with the meter arrows, or one of the little dots around the exposure i'd be a happy camper.
If it’s based on the m11p and all the hardware limitations of using that as the starting point - my guess is it will be like if the visoflex 2 was integrated into the body. All the advanced features being discussed likely will require new hardware eg m12. Good way to test market demand though to do a fast launch with the m11 platform.
modlin wrote:
Don't get it...is still going to be a rangefinder?..or ttl?
Sounds like it has no choice ...
TTL with an electronic viewfinder in the traditional location of a rangefinder, with an M mount suitable for M mount, rangefinder lenses, and with the appropriate adapter, R, S and non-Leica manual focus lenses.
Kinda makes me think that the M11 was the "warm-up" to this ... by necessitating the removal of the blades, and reading off the sensor for matrix metering, sets up the same TTL for the EVF viewfinder.
At this point, the only real aspect to "associate" to rangefinder is the corner location of the EVF, and the native M lens mount is a "rangefinder" mount.
In essence, it seems that it would NOT be a rangefinder, by pure definition of what a rangefinder is vs. isn't. At best, it is mirrorless TTL in a "rangefinder-like" form factor of the classic Leica M.
Something about Shakespeare and Roses comes to mind. That, and if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck ... it's a TTL mirrorless camera.
Unless, they have something up their sleeve to harness / utilize the rangefinder coupling (e.g. a distance scale in the EVF, that correlates to the RF coupling), the rangefinder coupling is DOA, by most basic considerations / expectations.
We'll see if they've got something to salvage the functionality of RF coupling in the engineering bag-o-tricks.
Otherwise ... yup, it looks to be a mirrorless / TTL.
I mean, the Fuji GFX 50R or 100 RF or 100 VI or X-Pro 3 ... how is that any different, in terms of it being (or not) a rangefinder vs. a mirrorless in the form factor of a traditional rangefinder, compared to the M11-V? Sounds kinda blasphemous, but functionally (wrt rangefinder vs. TTL) ... what's the diff (other than the obvious fixed lens vs. ILC) between the Fuji bodies and the M11-V? For that matter, the Sony A7CR has a similar EVF in the RF position ... and, even back to the fixed lens Leica Q, as having the EVF in the RF position, but actually, being TTL mirrorless.
It can still be an M, but I'm not sure how it can still be a rangefinder. I guess we'll just be waiting to be shown otherwise.
TTL with an electronic viewfinder in the traditional location of a rangefinder, with an M mount suitable for M mount, rangefinder lenses, and with the appropriate adapter, R, S and non-Leica manual focus lenses.
Kinda makes me think that the M11 was the "warm-up" to this ... by necessitating the removal of the blades, and reading off the sensor for matrix metering, sets up the same TTL for the EVF viewfinder.
At this point, the only real aspect to "associate" to rangefinder is the corner location of the EVF, and the native M lens mount is a "rangefinder" mount.
In essence, it seems that it would NOT be a rangefinder, by pure definition of what a rangefinder is vs. isn't. At best, it is mirrorless TTL in a "rangefinder-like" form factor of the classic Leica M.
Something about Shakespeare and Roses comes to mind. That, and if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck ... it's a TTL mirrorless camera.
Unless, they have something up their sleeve to harness / utilize the rangefinder coupling (e.g. a distance scale in the EVF, that correlates to the RF coupling), the rangefinder coupling is DOA, by most basic considerations / expectations.
We'll see if they've got something to salvage the functionality of RF coupling in the engineering bag-o-tricks.
Otherwise ... yup, it looks to be a mirrorless / TTL.
I mean, the Fuji GFX 50R or 100 RF or 100 VI or X-Pro 3 ... how is that any different, in terms of it being (or not) a rangefinder vs. a mirrorless in the form factor of a traditional rangefinder, compared to the M11-V? Sounds kinda blasphemous, but functionally (wrt rangefinder vs. TTL) ... what's the diff (other than the obvious fixed lens vs. ILC) between the Fuji bodies and the M11-V? For that matter, the Sony A7CR has a similar EVF in the RF position ...
It can still be an M, but I'm not sure how it can still be a rangefinder. I guess we'll just be waiting to be shown otherwise.
Ii have to wonder whether this EVF will come close the the SL EVF which is the best I have experienced for MF M lenses or will more closely reserve the Visoflex which I find not an enjoyable experience.
Not sure how it can be great in a small size and with no IBIS smoothness.
I do also love the M11 RF experience as long as I am using the proper FL lenses.
1bwana1 wrote:
Ii have to wonder whether this EVF will come close the the SL EVF which is the best I have experienced for MF M lenses or will more closely reserve the Visoflex which I find not an enjoyable experience.
Not sure how it can be great in a small size and with no IBIS smoothness.
I do also love the M11 RF experience as long as I am using the proper FL lenses.
Judging by the photos posted, it will incorporate some sort of new MF tech- looks like an rf patch in the evf which would be awesome. Time will tell!!!
If a real rangefinder patch doesn’t always help me enough with longer focal lengths, I don’t see how a fake one would help. Fuji’s didn’t do anything for me, either. They need Canon or Nikon’s implementation, or something better.
RustyBug wrote:
Unless, they have something up their sleeve to harness / utilize the rangefinder coupling (e.g. a distance scale in the EVF, that correlates to the RF coupling), the rangefinder coupling is DOA, by most basic considerations / expectations.
We'll see if they've got something to salvage the functionality of RF coupling in the engineering bag-o-tricks.
Otherwise ... yup, it looks to be a mirrorless / TTL.
This, for me, is the $64,000 question. Is it TTL only, or does it also use the RF coupling.
More specifically — and assuming that these images are accurate:
How do the frame lines work?
If it is purely TTL and the frame lines are showing what will be captured, where does the portion of the image that’s outside of the frame lines come from? Moreover, the second RF patch shows it to be out of focus. If that’s so, how come the face looks just as in focus as the one that is (with what looks like focus peaking)?
So I suppose it’s even possible that the images that have frame lines are being taken from an RF window, with focus peaking being superimposed from analysing a TTL image within the frame lines. Or is that too convoluted for words?
A rangefinder by any other name perhaps, I just hope that name isn’t Frankenfinder ….
It will be interesting to see how it deals with focus shift, anyway. Long live Sonnars!
There are so many positive elements that this camera could have - but, of course, it will not have them all. The split image that the rumour reveals as a possible focusing aid option, must come from two different perspectives - that would suggest at least a minimal separate rangefinder window. In the absence of front of camera images, we’ll have to wait and see whether that has actually been implemented.
It could also have a tilt screen (heaven forbid!) for more versatility, IBIS (we can dream), and a panoramic 65x24 framing option (so cheap and easy to implement, so why not?) for a petite and very versatile digital X-pan experience. So many possibilities!
wolfloid wrote:
There are so many positive elements that this camera could have - but, of course, it will not have them all. The split image that the rumour reveals as a possible focusing aid option, must come from two different perspectives - that would suggest at least a minimal separate rangefinder window. In the absence of front of camera images, we’ll have to wait and see whether that has actually been implemented.
It could also have a tilt screen (heaven forbid!) for more versatility, IBIS (we can dream), and a panoramic 65x24 framing option (so cheap and easy to implement, so why not?) for a petite and very versatile digital X-pan experience. So many possibilities!...Show more →
