p.5 #1 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
rollei35_warton wrote:
I don't understand, LLL website is selling for a little over $1000, why buy from Popflash?
You can't buy from LLL and ship to US (are stopped at payment). That's PopFlash's territory. Unfortunately I called PopFlash, they said there were still spots in the first batch and to send an email, which I did within five minutes. No response came leading up to ship date of June 1st or after, and now price has increased, though you still can't order online. I guess there's still eBay, but this left a bad taste in my mouth, though previous PopFlash experiences have all been positive. May sit this one out.
p.5 #2 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
blessingx wrote:
You can't buy from LLL and ship to US (are stopped at payment). That's PopFlash's territory. Unfortunately I called PopFlash, they said there were still spots in the first batch and to send an email, which I did within five minutes. No response came leading up to ship date of June 1st or after, and now price has increased, though you still can't order online. I guess there's still eBay, but this left a bad taste in my mouth, though previous PopFlash experiences have all been positive. May sit this one out.
To be fair to Tony at PopFlash, I don't think the situation is really their fault. There's still a lot of uncertainty around the final pricing and the timing of the first batch shipping to the US. I was told PopFlash, which is the US distributer, should receive the first shipment this Thursday, and the price increase is simply a reflection of updated import fees. If your name is already on the list, you should still be set to get one. And chances are, eBay listings will also include that same surcharge since the lens is shipping out of China.
p.5 #3 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
I have tried, last year, to buy a LLL Elcan from PopFlash due to the fact that they check the LLL lenses before sending them to customers (according to what I read here, on FM). Did not want to play the LLL roulette and order directly from LLL. Plus, LLL only had, at that time, the silver (or whatever) version available, and I was wanting the black version.
PopFlash refused to sell a lens to me (shipping to EU), and re-directed me back to LLL website, regardless of my reasoning. So they are meant only for the US market, I would guess.
If I would be living in the US, I would certainly buy LLL lenses only through PopFlash (giving they check the lenses, as mentioned) just for the peace of mind and to avoid the hassle of sending back and forth a lens to China (plus whatever taxes and fees that might apply - I know that for the EU customers we have to pay taxes/VAT).
p.5 #6 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Sonnar-7 wrote:
Bobby is on it. It’s nice to see a review with some samples.
Cool video and nice samples. It seems like it's geared toward a broader audience. I might be mistaken, but I thought I heard him mention seeing "onion rings" in specular highlights. Not sure how that's possible though, since this lens doesn't use any aspherical elements.
p.5 #7 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Fred Miranda wrote:
Cool video and nice samples. It seems like it's geared toward a broader audience. I might be mistaken, but I thought I heard him mention seeing "onion rings" in specular highlights. Not sure how that's possible though, since this lens doesn't use any aspherical elements.
He did a good job, I’m glad he didn’t delve too much on the mandatory part that explains character/vintage lenses that plagues these kind of reviews. He did put on the effort and the samples are quite great to have an idea of the rendering.
I think he mislabeled a few optical effects of the rendering when referring to the onion rings, I believe he was talking about the change in shape of the bokeh balls to oval ones quickly off center plus the fact that they appear to bend under the swirl with an outlining that is quite strong and unusual even in character lens territory, they even seem to double their sharp edges, it gives an onion ring feel.
p.5 #8 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
rollei35_warton wrote:
Don’t take serious of this guy. He is a paid YouTuber influencer who doesn’t really know what he is talking about.
Have you ever seen a review by him saying anything bad about any products? I have never.
These days, I feel it’s a given to not be swayed by the overenthousiasm of YouTube reviewers. The trend is epidemic indeed, most youtube reviews are so annoying to watch but Bobby is likable and does the work, he goes out and takes some real photos. Most don’t and that part is helpful.
p.5 #9 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Agreed, and his videos are pleasant to watch.
He was actually an actor in Singapore TV shows before, among other things
Sonnar-7 wrote:
These days, I feel it’s a given to not be swayed by the overenthousiasm of YouTube reviewers. The trend is epidemic indeed, most youtube reviews are so annoying to watch but Bobby is likable and does the work, he goes out and takes some real photos. Most don’t and that part is helpful.
p.5 #10 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
I'll begin a review as soon as the lens arrives and will share the usual pros and cons.
Even though it's a faster lens than the LLL 50/2 Panchro, I'm especially curious to see how their rendering differs, given how similar the optical designs are. I already know their flare characteristics are noticeably different.
p.5 #11 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'll begin a review as soon as the lens arrives and will share the usual pros and cons.
Even though it's a faster lens than the LLL 50/2 Panchro, I’m especially curious to see how their rendering differs, given how similar the optical designs are. I already know their flare characteristics are noticeably different.
I have the Panchro so I’m very curious about that as well. Looking forward to your review.
p.5 #12 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
The Panchro has an extra rear element, but its overall optical design is quite similar and symmetric, which was typical for the era when the original lenses were made. The Panchro also uses more spherical elements, while the S21 has lens surfaces that are noticeably straighter in comparison. The closest sibling to the S21 is the Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM, which also uses a 6-element Double-Gauss design.
p.5 #13 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
aaronquo wrote:
I don't see the problem with copying lenses, as long as they aren't breaking any laws. They are filling a market need (vintage out of production lenses at a reasonable cost) so bravo to them for that. I will happily buy the 35mm f/1.4 AA when it comes out, and I've heard great things about the 8E.
When is copying a current Leica lens being produced, not breaking the law?
p.5 #14 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
It would be if they were copying a current production lens, but they’re not. The LLL APO-ASPH is a new, original optical formula, and the barrel design is a) not copyrighted or patented (“utilitarian” designs generally don’t qualify for IP protection), and b) has modifications from the Leica APO and is apparently based on the AA.
p.5 #16 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Quite some older 6/4 Double Gauss (DG) designs produce a similar glowy, dreamy, painterly, and swirly rendering as the S21. However, they tend to be more rare and much more expensive than the newer 6/4 DG lenses. Some famous examples include the Biotar 50/1.4, Dallmeyer Super-Six 50/1.9, and Angenieux S1 50/1.8. I would say the S21 is more on the extreme side when it comes to over-corrected spherical aberration (SA) and thus is glowier and dreamier than rest of the pack.
Canon 50/1.4 LTM, on the other hand, is considered a newer 6/4 DG design where the SA is much better corrected. So it produces a very different rendering with much better sharpness and less "arty" bokeh. After that, many high performing 6/4 DG lenses continued to be made all the way into the 2000s. The Planar 50/2 ZM comes to mind as a high performing example.
What I am trying to say is that there was much development and improvement of the 6/4 DG design throughout the years, and the newer ones are mostly much better in optical performance but also lose some vintage characters at the same time. The S21 is pretty terrible in its wide-open performance, but the rarity combined with the vintage characters has pushed its price way out of reach for most people. The Z21, being a replicate, is much more affordable. With LLL's marketing strategy and people's desire of hunting down the newest stuff, I think the initial sales will be strong, but after a couple of years when the interest drops off (especially considering many buyers will find its performance lacking) the used prices will come down a lot.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The Panchro has an extra rear element, but its overall optical design is quite similar and symmetric, which was typical for the era when the original lenses were made. The Panchro also uses more spherical elements, while the S21 has lens surfaces that are noticeably straighter in comparison. The closest sibling to the S21 is the Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM, which also uses a 6-element Double-Gauss design.
p.5 #17 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
sander9t wrote:
Quite some older 6/4 Double Gauss (DG) designs produce a similar glowy, dreamy, painterly, and swirly rendering as the S21. However, they tend to be more rare and much more expensive than the newer 6/4 DG lenses. Some famous examples include the Biotar 50/1.4, Dallmeyer Super-Six 50/1.9, and Angenieux S1 50/1.8. I would say the S21 is more on the extreme side when it comes to over-corrected spherical aberration (SA) and thus is glowier and dreamier than rest of the pack.
Canon 50/1.4 LTM, on the other hand, is considered a newer 6/4 DG design where the SA is much better corrected. So it produces a very different rendering with much better sharpness and less "arty" bokeh. After that, many high performing 6/4 DG lenses continued to be made all the way into the 2000s. The Planar 50/2 ZM comes to mind as a high performing example.
What I am trying to say is that there was much development and improvement of the 6/4 DG design throughout the years, and the newer ones are mostly much better in optical performance but also lose some vintage characters at the same time. The S21 is pretty terrible in its wide-open performance, but the rarity combined with the vintage characters has pushed its price way out of reach for most people. The Z21, being a replicate, is much more affordable. With LLL's marketing strategy and people's desire of hunting down the newest stuff, I think the initial sales will be strong, but after a couple of years when the interest drops off (especially considering many buyers will find its performance lacking) the used prices will come down a lot.
I wonder if LLL was able to improve the S21's wide open performance while keeping its distinctive rendering style. I won't have a S21 to compare side by side, but I’m sure someone will do it before long.
