Light Lens Lab will release two new lenses for Leica M-Mount – here are photos of the new lenses on display at the 2025 CP+ show in Japan:
Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
I’m quite intrigued by the S21, sometimes I feel that the Heliar 50mm 1.5 is a bit gimmicky even to my taste when some even weirder lenses do not procure me that thought.
The S21 has a crazy rendering but I find it more organic.
I don’t like to think of these notions as being that much subjective and maybe there is ground to that. It appears to be maybe sharper in the center and the oof background weirdo effect seems more gradual and textured than of the Heliar.
To me it would be enough to be a step up of sort.
Well I’m curious.
I wish there will be an all matte black version of the lens.
And I hope it flares because I like that.
p.1 #4 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
@OscarFposted a translation from Chinese to English on the text next to the new Light Lens Lab "M APO 35mm F2 ASPH."
The lens is a Leica-type apochromatic M f/2/35mm ASPH. design and aims for a performance of more than...a completely new design was adopted.
*Design...
The highest quality anomalous dispersion glass, high refractive glass, and multiple aspherical elements.
The combination of these glasses suppresses refractive errors to the utmost limit and improves contrast reproduction.
*In addition, the floating focus...
The lens is equipped with a floating focus mechanism to reduce the minimum focusing distance to a minimum.
*Minimum focusing distance of 0.3m...
The minimum focusing distance has been shortened to 0.3m, which enables the lens to deliver outstanding resolution even when returning the focus.
This is a new generation of dual-performance lens that achieves further improvements in descriptive performance while maintaining its compact size.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
I pulled out what characters I could from the photo.
p.1 #5 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
I’m excited about the 35 AA and APO lenses coming out by LLL. They have done a great job mimicking the classics so far, lets how they see with a more modern look.
p.1 #6 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Fred Miranda wrote:
@OscarF@ posted a translation from Chinese to English on the text next to the new Light Lens Lab "M APO 35mm F2 ASPH."
The lens is a Leica-type apochromatic M f/2/35mm ASPH. design and aims for a performance of more than...a completely new design was adopted.
*Design...
The highest quality anomalous dispersion glass, high refractive glass, and multiple aspherical elements.
The combination of these glasses suppresses refractive errors to the utmost limit and improves contrast reproduction.
*In addition, the floating focus...
The lens is equipped with a floating focus mechanism to reduce the minimum focusing distance to a minimum.
*Minimum focusing distance of 0.3m...
The minimum focusing distance has been shortened to 0.3m, which enables the lens to deliver outstanding resolution even when returning the focus.
This is a new generation of dual-performance lens that achieves further improvements in descriptive performance while maintaining its compact size.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
I pulled out what characters I could from the photo.
p.1 #7 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
rsolti13 wrote:
I’m excited about the 35 AA and APO lenses coming out by LLL. They have done a great job mimicking the classics so far, lets how they see with a more modern look.
Now there are two lenses that might be coming from Light Lens Lab, both 35mm and sometimes referred to as AA.
One is the 35mm f/1.4 AA (double aspherical), and the other is the 35mm f/2 AA (apo-asph). I’m surprised the latter was announced before the former, considering the double aspherical has been in development for a very long time!
p.1 #8 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
So they just copy a current lens?
I get copying an older vintage lens, but copying current lens offerings from Leica, seems like a crook of a company to me. Am I alone in this thinking?
p.1 #9 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
RustyRus wrote:
So they just copy a current lens?
I get copying an older vintage lens, but copying current lens offerings from Leica, seems like a crook of a company to me. Am I alone in this thinking?
I could be wrong, but I believe the upcoming LLL 35mm f/2 APO-ASPH has a new optical design rather than a copy of Leica's. I'm not entirely sure, though.
p.1 #11 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
rsolti13 wrote:
Look at the examples in the link posted above...nothing like the Cron APO biting sharpness
If you are referring to the Leica Rumors samples, I think Peter made a mistake.
He wrote: "Here are some sample photos from the Light Lens Lab APO 35mm f/2 ASPH lens taken with the Leica M9 camera"
But those samples aren't from the APO lens. They are from the LLL 50mm f/1.5 S21. As far as I know, there are no available samples taken with the Light Lens Lab APO 35mm f/2 ASPH yet.
Mar 16, 2025 at 04:50 PM
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p.1 #12 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
RustyRus wrote:
So they just copy a current lens?
I get copying an older vintage lens, but copying current lens offerings from Leica, seems like a crook of a company to me. Am I alone in this thinking?
I think it depends. If I give them the benefit of the doubt, then I can say they started by copying old lenses long out of production and yet highly valued. They made them well and they made them very close to the originals. They seemed to learn a lot about manufacturing lenses in doing so. More recently, they have tweaked some of the designs of some older lenses they were copying trying to make them function a bit better. Perhaps they learned more about lens design in doing so and now they want to take on the best of the modern designs. They are still targeting the most expensive lenses, which seems like it might be a smart strategy, but they aren't copying them now but instead aiming to make a lens just as good with a different design at a significantly cheaper price. If this is all they are doing, then bravo for them.
Alternatively, they are just copying the modern lens and ripping off Leica and unfairly benefiting from Leica's R & D. If they are doing that I think that is unethical and problematic. Let's hope they are not, but we will likely know when the lens comes out.
p.1 #14 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
I don't see the problem with copying lenses, as long as they aren't breaking any laws. They are filling a market need (vintage out of production lenses at a reasonable cost) so bravo to them for that. I will happily buy the 35mm f/1.4 AA when it comes out, and I've heard great things about the 8E.
p.1 #15 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think it depends. If I give them the benefit of the doubt, then I can say they started by copying old lenses long out of production and yet highly valued. They made them well and they made them very close to the originals. They seemed to learn a lot about manufacturing lenses in doing so. More recently, they have tweaked some of the designs of some older lenses they were copying trying to make them function a bit better. Perhaps they learned more about lens design in doing so and now they want to take on the best of the modern designs. They are still targeting the most expensive lenses, which seems like it might be a smart strategy, but they aren't copying them now but instead aiming to make a lens just as good with a different design at a significantly cheaper price. If this is all they are doing, then bravo for them.
Alternatively, they are just copying the modern lens and ripping off Leica and unfairly benefiting from Leica's R & D. If they are doing that I think that is unethical and problematic. Let's hope they are not, but we will likely know when the lens comes out....Show more →
I would give LLL's lens designers a bit more credit. My guess is they were already very good at designing lenses. IIRC the idea to clone rare/vintage Leica lenses started off more as a hobby/experiment for Mr. Zhou. Something to do on the side from his 'day job,' or so the story goes. Whatever the case, my guess is one doesn't faithfully reproduce the Cron 8-element as a first project by starting from scratch with little optical experience.
I'll wait to see more about their 35 APO but for now will assume it will be a new design. Perhaps it's optically inspired by Leica's 35 Cron APO ASPH? I also suspect that optics software is to the point where cost of entry is not prohibitive and can enable smaller companies to design and release impressively capable modern lenses. Just look at all the very good/excellent options that have come to the market relatively recently from previously totally unknown companies (to us in the West).
Mar 16, 2025 at 10:10 PM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
rscheffler wrote:
I would give LLL's lens designers a bit more credit. My guess is they were already very good at designing lenses. IIRC the idea to clone rare/vintage Leica lenses started off more as a hobby/experiment for Mr. Zhou. Something to do on the side from his 'day job,' or so the story goes. Whatever the case, my guess is one doesn't faithfully reproduce the Cron 8-element as a first project by starting from scratch with little optical experience.
I'll wait to see more about their 35 APO but for now will assume it will be a new design. Perhaps it's optically inspired by Leica's 35 Cron APO ASPH? I also suspect that optics software is to the point where cost of entry is not prohibitive and can enable smaller companies to design and release impressively capable modern lenses. Just look at all the very good/excellent options that have come to the market relatively recently from previously totally unknown companies (to us in the West)....Show more →
I don't disagree at all. I didn't mean to impugn the capabilities of LLL designers. I very much like and I am impressed with what they have done so far. That said, building a brand new lens inspired by the 35 cron APO that can challenge its performance is a significant advance over anything they have done so far. I am eager to see what they produce.
p.1 #17 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
RustyRus wrote:
So they just copy a current lens?
I get copying an older vintage lens, but copying current lens offerings from Leica, seems like a crook of a company to me. Am I alone in this thinking?
this will be a hot take as there are a lot of LLL fans here...i'll take it a step further that they shouldn't be copying older Leica designs, either. i wouldn't call them a crook, but it certainly doesn't feel right IMO. they even go as far as ripping off the Leica design language. compare that to Voigtlander who have designed inspired by Leica but has unmistakable design and also have their own lens design that even beats Leica or even Thypoch who at least make an effort to even _improve_ on Leica designs and also has a distinctive design language.
yeah, i get it...there's a market for it...but so are knock off designer bags and clothing. does that make it right?
my opinion on LLL may change if that new 35 APO has an original lens design.
Mar 17, 2025 at 11:09 AM
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p.1 #18 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
dalegaspi wrote:
this will be a hot take as there are a lot of LLL fans here...i'll take it a step further that they shouldn't be copying older Leica designs, either. i wouldn't call them a crook, but it certainly doesn't feel right IMO. they even go as far as ripping off the Leica design language. compare that to Voigtlander who have designed inspired by Leica but has unmistakable design and also have their own lens design that even beats Leica or even Thypoch who at least make an effort to even _improve_ on Leica designs and also has a distinctive design language.
yeah, i get it...there's a market for it...but so are knock off designer bags and clothing. does that make it right?
my opinion on LLL may change if that new 35 APO has an original lens design. ...Show more →
My view on copying old lenses in which the patent has clearly expired is very different than copying lenses for which there is a current patent. We have patent law for a reason. Copying old designs does not violate that law, but copying new designs does. I am fine with copying old designs. I am not with copying new ones.
p.1 #19 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
dalegaspi wrote:
this will be a hot take as there are a lot of LLL fans here...i'll take it a step further that they shouldn't be copying older Leica designs, either. i wouldn't call them a crook, but it certainly doesn't feel right IMO. they even go as far as ripping off the Leica design language. compare that to Voigtlander who have designed inspired by Leica but has unmistakable design and also have their own lens design that even beats Leica or even Thypoch who at least make an effort to even _improve_ on Leica designs and also has a distinctive design language.
yeah, i get it...there's a market for it...but so are knock off designer bags and clothing. does that make it right?
my opinion on LLL may change if that new 35 APO has an original lens design. ...Show more →
I don't think it's wrong because Leica isn't currently producing the lens anymore. Even if Leica were still producing the lens designs, I still don't think it's wrong. Things get copied all the time. It's the nature of business and art. Knock offs are fine as long as they aren't trying to impersonate the original.
p.1 #20 · Light Lens Lab 50mm f/1.5 S21 and APO 35mm f/2 ASPH
When I bought my first LLL lens, it was the 8 elements and I bought it along with my Leica m10. I have no idea it was a copy of the original 8 elements. All I knew it was a lens I can afford and it is a very good lens. The latest pricing of the LLL has moved the lens from affordable to almost collector item territory. Mine "1966" cost me near $2500 because I bought from a reputable dealer. I trade it in after a few months because I couldn't justify having another lens that tie up so much money.
LLL lenses are now more expensive than Voigtlander. I think for every day use, Voigtlander is much more practical. My Ultron 35mm f2 is an excellent lens for around $500 used. It becomes very hard to justify owning an 8 element replica, when I also have a steel rim reissue. Something has to give.
Thypoch is also getting very expensive too. I don't understand why their 75mm 1.4 can ask for $899 (US price) while I paid $460 for a brand new artzlab 35mm 1.4.
