I spent some time photographing a number of plant subjects- cactus, that have lots of detail in them, and if the center of the photograph is the goal, the elcan to my eye looks center sharper than either rigid or rigid Cook SP at medium distance 50-100 feet. The elcan is as I thought a great compact lens if the center is the goal, it does fall off if the entire frame is the goal so not lens of choice. It seems to me isn't that what the military would have wanted really good center sharp for whatever they photographing since nicely composed photos was not the goal.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Two things to consider. While the Leica and LLL "Rigid" versions are similar in both performance and rendering, the Leica is slightly sharper off-axis. That might explain why the LLL Rigid and the Elcan feel closer in overall performance. I remember testing the Elcan when it first came out and comparing it to the Leica Rigid...the Rigid showed better resolution away from the center. I'll test this again with the copy I have now.
The Rigid also shows more optical vignetting than the Elcan, so if you're after more of a swirl effect, the Rigid delivers that. Overall, their rendering is very close, so if compactness is a priority, the Elcan is the one to go for.
For those with Elcan lenses. Does your copy has a bit of 'play' when rotating the focusing ring? It's funny that the two copies I've tried have that and I'm wondering if that's how they are made....Show more →
EMH2025 wrote:
I spent some time photographing a number of plant subjects- cactus, that have lots of detail in them, and if the center of the photograph is the goal, the elcan to my eye looks center sharper than either rigid or rigid Cook SP at medium distance 50-100 feet. The elcan is as I thought a great compact lens if the center is the goal, it does fall off if the entire frame is the goal so not lens of choice. It seems to me isn't that what the military would have wanted really good center sharp for whatever they photographing since nicely composed photos was not the goal.
Thanks for that assessment. It matches my own, but since I had only tested one copy of the Elcan, I wasn't entirely sure if that's just how the lens behaves. I now have a second copy and plan to compare it again with the Leica Rigid. My first impression also showed strong center performance with a gradual decline off-axis. That kind of behavior is common with older lens designs, but I want to confirm it directly against the Rigid. It would make sense since the Elcan has a simpler optical design and is a much smaller lens with fewer elements.
I also noticed the difference in vignetting (more pronounced on the Rigid) which affects both overall light falloff and the shape of specular highlights. The Rigid shows more "cat-eye" shapes which causes more swirling, which ties into that higher optical vignetting.
EMH2025 wrote:
I spent some time photographing a number of plant subjects- cactus, that have lots of detail in them, and if the center of the photograph is the goal, the elcan to my eye looks center sharper than either rigid or rigid Cook SP at medium distance 50-100 feet. The elcan is as I thought a great compact lens if the center is the goal, it does fall off if the entire frame is the goal so not lens of choice. It seems to me isn't that what the military would have wanted really good center sharp for whatever they photographing since nicely composed photos was not the goal.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Military use just means as simple and reliable as possible at the lowest possible price. The design was likely intended for use at smaller apertures.
I think the lens was also designed to be flexible in different lighting conditions, which explains the choice of an f/2 aperture. It's very capable wide open, and while many war-time images were shot stopped down, that was not just because of the lens design. It often came down to practical reasons like dealing with harsh lighting that required smaller apertures or needing to shoot quickly without precise rangefinder focusing.. Other 'military' design choices are more obvious, like the aperture ring that can be operated quickly with one finger and even while wearing gloves, though some dislike it because it's different from other Leica lenses. The focus tab is also larger than usual, likely for the same reason...to work well with gloves.
I have been playing with the elcan since this post looking for the right light, this is view out my front door. The tall growth is an Agave, it puts up that stalk in mere weeks, after more than a decade of growth, then the plant dies, so it is an occasion. I went all in with a Kodachrome preset on this to extend the elcan, but the sharpness of the lens in the center is remarkable. This is digital, I am going to have to try it with film and see what I get out of it. It is a rather interesting tiny lens, and now that LLL decided to make no more it is once again "rare" as they made maybe 2X the original number and there is no certainty any will ever be made again.So I am happy to have an example to use.
EMH2025 wrote:
I have been playing with the elcan since this post looking for the right light, this is view out my front door. The tall growth is an Agave, it puts up that stalk in mere weeks, after more than a decade of growth, then the plant dies, so it is an occasion. I went all in with a Kodachrome preset on this to extend the elcan, but the sharpness of the lens in the center is remarkable. This is digital, I am going to have to try it with film and see what I get out of it. It is a rather interesting tiny lens, and now that LLL decided to make no more it is once again "rare" as they made maybe 2X the original number and there is no certainty any will ever be made again.So I am happy to have an example to use.
On the LLL web blog they announced quite some time ago they are done with the production and have moved on so for now the approx thousand Elcans are it. Whether this is permanent I have no idea but for the moment the 500 originals and thousand replicas are it
They seem to produce a thousand or so of a lens snd move to next project. This makes them an almost uniquely interesting producer of vintage replicas There seems to be no indication any lens is a long term catalog item
It seems if you really want a lens best to buy when you can as down the line it may not be available
Sonnar-7 wrote:
The Elcan will not be produced once again?
There are still some new elcans available but not in us. I bought two one for each of my locations a decision re-enforced by the apparent and confirmed by Fred that the production is done. Now there is that tariff issue for foreign purchases but there some still out there
I am very interested in their plans for modern lenses any hints Fred?
Fred Miranda wrote:
LLL told me it's discontinued. Instead, they plan to develop a "simple" lens and split their future releases between classic and modern designs.
Fred Miranda wrote:
LLL told me it's discontinued. Instead, they plan to develop a "simple" lens and split their future releases between classic and modern designs.
What do they mean by simple lens? I wonder if they will discontinue some other lenses such as the 8 elements or the Panchro.
The Elcan is the one they discontinued twice already and not any other for now.
This is what I am thinking when I have access to my MP shoot larger f stops and for what I want to do in Alaska mostly a little distant small and light for carry and see what I can do with the Elcan and film. The stop ring doesn't bother a multi decade Nikon guy seems right to me the other way feels like driving in japan to me or uk
Fred Miranda wrote:
I think the lens was also designed to be flexible in different lighting conditions, which explains the choice of an f/2 aperture. It's very capable wide open, and while many war-time images were shot stopped down, that was not just because of the lens design. It often came down to practical reasons like dealing with harsh lighting that required smaller apertures or needing to shoot quickly without precise rangefinder focusing.. Other 'military' design choices are more obvious, like the aperture ring that can be operated quickly with one finger and even while wearing gloves, though some dislike it because it's different from other Leica lenses. The focus tab is also larger than usual, likely for the same reason...to work well with gloves....Show more →
EMH2025 wrote:
There are still some new elcans available but not in us. I bought two one for each of my locations a decision re-enforced by the apparent and confirmed by Fred that the production is done. Now there is that tariff issue for foreign purchases but there some still out there
I am very interested in their plans for modern lenses any hints Fred?
Yes, they are still available but won't be produced anymore. As far as modern lenses, I think they meant new modern designs like their upcoming LLL 35mm f/2 APO.
Sonnar-7 wrote:
What do they mean by simple lens? I wonder if they will discontinue some other lenses such as the 8 elements or the Panchro.
The Elcan is the one they discontinued twice already and not any other for now.
I'm not sure but perhaps a lens with fewer elements like the Elcan.
I wonder how many people have replaced their original Rigid or the LLL Rigid replica with the LLL version of the Elcan, since it performs and renders similarly? Personally, I ended up with both the Elcan and the original Rigid, but to be honest, they feel quite redundant and I usually grab the Elcan for the smaller size alone.
I have all three an original rigid, LLL ver, and elcan, my original rigid lives on my M4, just seems right to me to have an all vintage setup especially since the M4 was a covet at that time as I am that vintage, of the others I too tend to favor the elcan, whether it is on a nikon or a leica MP or M11P, except if I am shooting the SPII of which I have a rigid ver and then I take the LLL rigid, there is no logical reason for this but one is in black and one is silver (SPII) and pocketing both just makes sense to me to swap back and forth. I am off to shoot both this week will likely use both for float plane photography in situ. I have two elcans, one black and one silver, and the silver one is quite striking on the safari as you previously posted. So they all have their roles, except the roles have little functional logic in my use just emotional preferences.
EMH2025 wrote:
I have all three an original rigid, LLL ver, and elcan, my original rigid lives on my M4, just seems right to me to have an all vintage setup especially since the M4 was a covet at that time as I am that vintage, of the others I too tend to favor the elcan, whether it is on a nikon or a leica MP or M11P, except if I am shooting the SPII of which I have a rigid ver and then I take the LLL rigid, there is no logical reason for this but one is in black and one is silver (SPII) and pocketing both just makes sense to me to swap back and forth. I am off to shoot both this week will likely use both for float plane photography in situ. I have two elcans, one black and one silver, and the silver one is quite striking on the safari as you previously posted. So they all have their roles, except the roles have little functional logic in my use just emotional preferences....Show more →
We have so many options now. The Elcan is my top choice at the moment because of its compact size and its mechanism, which is excellent and on par with Leica. The LLL 50/2 SP2 is also a special lens since it has lower contrast and a bit more SA, yet it is impressive how much detail it still captures even off-center.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I wonder how many people have replaced their original Rigid or the LLL Rigid replica with the LLL version of the Elcan, since it performs and renders similarly? Personally, I ended up with both the Elcan and the original Rigid, but to be honest, they feel quite redundant and I usually grab the Elcan for the smaller size alone.
Not me, I still have the LLL SPII (non-rigid) and LLL Rigid (not SPII). My Elcan copy was too soft off center at f/2 at people distances. If I wanted a 50 M lens that small, I'd be more inclined to try the Voigtlander 50 2.2 CS.
If I had it to do over again, though, I'd have not bought the LLL Rigid. It's not as sharp as I expected at f/2 anywhere in the frame at any distance based on what I've read about the original Leica Rigid (or compared to the SPII). I've just been too lazy to sell it.
highdesertmesa wrote:
Not me, I still have the LLL SPII (non-rigid) and LLL Rigid (not SPII). My Elcan copy was too soft off center at f/2 at people distances. If I wanted a 50 M lens that small, I'd be more inclined to try the Voigtlander 50 2.2 CS.
If I had it to do over again, though, I'd have not bought the LLL Rigid. It's not as sharp as I expected at f/2 anywhere in the frame at any distance based on what I've read about the original Leica Rigid (or compared to the SPII). I've just been too lazy to sell it....Show more →
The first time I used the Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron Rigid, I was amazed at how sharp it was wide open, especially in the center. There is some noticeable falloff toward the mid-field, but I still consider it sharp even by today's standards. Even the "modern" 50mm f/1.4 Lux shows a very noticeable drop in mid-field performance.
My first Elcan copy was a bit soft away from the center, but the latest copy I own performs much more like the Rigid. It is not quite as sharp off-axis, but it is far closer than my initial copy. The LLL 50mm f/2 Rigid is a little softer than the original Leica, especially off-axis, which is clear in the resolution test I shared in the review.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The first time I used the Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron Rigid, I was amazed at how sharp it was wide open, especially in the center. There is some noticeable falloff toward the mid-field, but I still consider it sharp even by today's standards. Even the "modern" 50mm f/1.4 Lux shows a very noticeable drop in mid-field performance.
My first Elcan copy was a bit soft away from the center, but the latest copy I own performs much more like the Rigid. It is not quite as sharp off-axis, but it is far closer than my initial copy. The LLL 50mm f/2 Rigid is a little softer than the original Leica, especially off-axis, which is clear in the resolution test I shared in the review....Show more →
Reading this- I am going to have to use my Leica rigid on the M11P more instead of it living on my M4 as a period piece. Maybe it and the LLL SP2 rigid are going to have to pair for some outings.
