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Archive 2024 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

1bwana1
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p.10 #1 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

RustyBug wrote:
And the physical difference of the lenses =

The build quality is excellent.

The aperture ring is actually nicer and it has the click/de-click option. The Summilux doesn't.

Focus ring is nice but I give the Lux the nod there.

The DOF implementation on the Simera is a bit weird and I much prefer the one on the Summilux.

The Simera focuses at 0.4 meters

The Summilux focuses at 0.70 meters

The Simera has 14 aperture blades

The Summilux has 9 aperture blades

The Simera comes with both a round and square hood, and metal caps.

The Summilux comes with a built in hood, and plastic caps.

The Simera packaging is as good as the Summilux, more like an expensive watch box.

Who knows about the longevity, or service with the Simera.

I added zoomed in images to the comparison, make sure you go back and look at those, then tell us what you think. I currently have 3 50mm M lenses. I am thinking of selling the Cron v5 and the Summilux, keeping the Simera because it offers so much more. The catch is that emotionally I want a completes set of leica Summilux lenses for my M kit.

Edited on Dec 22, 2024 at 01:24 PM · View previous versions

Dec 22, 2024 at 12:46 PM

Tina Kino
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p.10 #2 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

stgrove wrote:
Many LLL lenses give the old (and new) Leica lenses a run for the money and rendering for less money like many competitive M lenses out there today.

Is that so?

I haven't really seen any comprehensive comparisons / reviews yet to be honest, but from what I've seen so far they often look really nice on first sight, yet if you look closer I've found the LLL lenses aren't quite the same really..
..some A / B comparisons (or better yet blind tests) would be pretty cool to see though!

Dec 22, 2024 at 12:59 PM

Tina Kino
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p.10 #3 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

1bwana1 wrote:
I will post one test below.

..actually missed that on the previous page - very interesting, thanks for sharing!

The bokeh "shapes" of the Summilux in the last picture indeed look really weird, almost as if there's something wrong with the lens.

Dec 22, 2024 at 01:17 PM

RexGig0
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p.10 #4 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

Some scattered thoughts:

I drive a non-Veblen 2014 Toyota Tundra, the absolute 6-cylinder base model. I hope to get at least another decade of service from this vehicle. We live in a flood-prone area, and our wildlife photography does take us into remote areas, so, the ground clearance is a desirable feature. Why a pick-up truck? I use it to haul building materials, for our aging home, and my mother�s aging home. Simply practical/tactical.

My watch is an iPhone 13 Pro Max. I can appreciate a nice time piece, on my wrist, but, when I noticed that my Omega Seamaster and my first DSLR were scratching each other, �way back in 2010, well, the watch was sold, to help finance my next Canon L lens. Simply practical/tactical.

My iPhone 13 Pro Max is not a base model, but, with the iPhone 16 already extant, as I type this, it is apparent that I do not upgrade with each generation. I actually bought this one Certified Pre-Owned. The �Pro Max� part is so that my aging eyes can see the screen, and so my clumsy fingers can actually type on it. Simply practical/tactical.

OK, so, the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, the lens which I bought pre-owned, in April 2024, to begin my Leica experience, was/is not a practical/tactical choice. I had recently retired, and wanted to �be good to myself.� Very Veblen. At the moment that I made the final buying decision, I did not yet know which camera I would acquire, upon which to use the lens. (I had test-shot with the lens, on pre-owned and demonstrator M9 and M Type 240 cameras, during multiple visits to Houston Camera Exchange, a Leica dealer. The M10 was extant, but still rare, in the wild.)

By happy coincidence, Houston Camera Exchange had just finally finished fulfilling their M10 waiting list, and had two freshly-delivered M10 cameras available, for sale, on the day I decided to buy my Summilux. Very Veblen, yes, but, not unlike a Homo habilis hand axe, in heft, so, well, practical/tactical, no?

One may have to �buffalo*� a thief, out there in the real world�

*In the USA�s �Old West� era, late 19th and early 20th Centuries, a lawman may well elect to use his duty handgun as a field-expedient bludgeon. �Buffalo� was used as a verb, in this context.

Edited on Dec 22, 2024 at 01:24 PM · View previous versions

Dec 22, 2024 at 01:17 PM

1bwana1
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p.10 #5 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

Tina Kino wrote:
..actually missed that on the previous page - very interesting, thanks for sharing!

The bokeh "shapes" of the Summilux in the last picture indeed look really weird, almost as if there's something wrong with the lens.

Nope that is how they all are. Summilux has only 9 aperture blades while the Simera has 14 aperture blades.

Dec 22, 2024 at 01:23 PM

Tina Kino
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p.10 #6 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

1bwana1 wrote:
Nope that is how they all are. Summilux has only 9 aperture blades while the Simera has 14 aperture blades.

Yea, I wasn't so much referring to the polygonal shape as such but rather the way the light seems to "break out" of the shapes is kinda weird I thought.

https://i.ibb.co/gW5Y4fr/screenshot-17.jpg

Dec 22, 2024 at 01:31 PM

airfrogusmc
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p.10 #7 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

johnvanr wrote:
Only $525 for a Canon F1? I was in Europe at the time and couldn�t afford anything beyond a Pentax ME, but that sounds really cheap for a top-of-the-line Canon.

I still have it and an old F-1. At one time I had 2 old F-1s and 2 New F-1s. That was the last F-1 I bought in 1982 and it was $525. I bought it new from Central Camera on Wabash in Chicago. The camera store is still there BTW.

Dec 22, 2024 at 01:37 PM

1bwana1
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p.10 #8 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

Tina Kino wrote:
Yea, I wasn't so much referring to the polygonal shape as such but rather the way the light seems to "break out" of the shapes is kinda weird I thought.

https://i.ibb.co/gW5Y4fr/screenshot-17.jpg

Yes, thos bokeh balls start forming stars. It becomes very obvious as you stop down more.

Dec 22, 2024 at 02:06 PM

RexGig0
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p.10 #9 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

There is, indeed, an aperture range at which the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH produces less-than-desirable effects with out-of-focus points of light. If I recall correctly, I was well aware of this, before I bought my Summilux, knowing that it is for shooting either wide-open, or at f/5.6 and beyond. One remedy, if one wants to shoot from f/2 to f/4.8, is to use another 50mm lens, which is probably one of the several reasons why I soon added a Summicron-M 50mm, and is, indeed, one of the several reasons I added a Voigtlander APO Lanthar 50mm VM, in 2023. One can never have too many 50mm lenses.

Of course, then, there is the Leica Re-Edition Thambar-M 90mm lens, with TWENTY aperture blades.

Life is good.

Edited on Dec 22, 2024 at 04:24 PM · View previous versions

Dec 22, 2024 at 02:15 PM

raizans
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p.10 #10 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

Check it out! I typed up a spreadsheet of historical camera prices. I plugged in a formula for automatically calculating the price adjusted for inflation.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12YwdppjxVmTs5AzAcEVE-IIasGQpSJzAeglthzYgjsg/edit?usp=sharing

Also, I found a Leica Retail Price list on eBay that included the original price of the Leica M4-P: $1347 in 1983 (or $3,472.81 today).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305985511628?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=KilX2YQ4Q9C&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=722PP6b4S-y&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Dec 22, 2024 at 02:16 PM

1bwana1
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p.10 #11 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

RexGig0 wrote:
There is, indeed, an aperture range at which the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH produces less-than-desirable effects with out-of-focus points of light. If I recall correctly, I was well aware of this, before I bought my Summilux, knowing that it is for shooting either wide-open, or at f/5.6 and beyond. One remedy, if one wants to shoot from f/2 to f/4.8, is to use another 50mm lens, which is probably one of the several reasons why I soon added a Summicron-M 50mm, is, indeed, one of the several reasons I added a Voigtlander APO Lanthar 50mm VM, in 2023. One can never...Show more →

Well I will be selling my Leica Summicron v5 (current version) in excellent condition. Just make me a fair offer.

Dec 22, 2024 at 02:20 PM

1bwana1
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p.10 #12 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

raizans wrote:
Check it out! I typed up a spreadsheet of historical camera prices. I plugged in a formula for automatically calculating the price adjusted for inflation.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12YwdppjxVmTs5AzAcEVE-IIasGQpSJzAeglthzYgjsg/edit?usp=sharing

Also, I found a Leica Retail Price list on eBay that included the original price of the Leica M4-P: $1347 in 1983 (or $3,472.81 today).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305985511628?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=KilX2YQ4Q9C&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=722PP6b4S-y&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Wow a lot of work. I will be interested to see when you add digital. But of your calculations are correct, it seems Dr Kaufmann was incorrect that the pricing has always been the same adjusted for wages. Or wages consistently outpaced inflation through time.

Dec 22, 2024 at 02:23 PM

airfrogusmc
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p.10 #13 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

raizans wrote:
Check it out! I typed up a spreadsheet of historical camera prices. I plugged in a formula for automatically calculating the price adjusted for inflation.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12YwdppjxVmTs5AzAcEVE-IIasGQpSJzAeglthzYgjsg/edit?usp=sharing

Also, I found a Leica Retail Price list on eBay that included the original price of the Leica M4-P: $1347 in 1983 (or $3,472.81 today).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305985511628?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=KilX2YQ4Q9C&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=722PP6b4S-y&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

And I paid $525 for my Canon F-1 in 82 so like I said earlier Leica M was about double. So the Sony A1II is 6498 and the M11 is not quite double. Canon R1 6299 so the M 11 is jsut about twice the price. D6 is what 6496 so Leica M has stayed about the same in relationship with the other camera manufacturers. About double.

Edited on Dec 22, 2024 at 06:27 PM · View previous versions

Dec 22, 2024 at 04:16 PM

RexGig0
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p.10 #14 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

1bwana1 wrote:
Well I will be selling my Leica Summicron v5 (current version) in excellent condition. Just make me a fair offer.

My grammatical error (now corrected) may have indicated that I was seeking a Summicron. Actually, I bought my Summicron, already, perhaps no more than a year after buying my Summilux.

But, thanks.

Dec 22, 2024 at 04:27 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.10 #15 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

1bwana1 wrote:
Wow a lot of work. I will be interested to see when you add digital. But of your calculations are correct, it seems Dr Kaufmann was incorrect that the pricing has always been the same adjusted for wages. Or wages consistently outpaced inflation through time.

Or inflation was higher in Germany than region raizans used for to set the inflation rate. Inflation rates do vary substantially between regions at times. Notably over the last 25 years inflation has been very low in Japan. Part of lower Japanese prices than German prices over that period could simply be that in Japan there was much lower inflation, while in Germany the inflation was higher. I haven't looked at the numbers to see if that is true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Dec 22, 2024 at 04:31 PM

raizans
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p.10 #16 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

I�m just getting prices in the US right now, but I did come across a Dutch price list.

Dec 22, 2024 at 04:53 PM

RustyBug
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p.10 #17 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

1bwana1 wrote:
The build quality is excellent.

The aperture ring is actually nicer and it has the click/de-click option. The Summilux doesn't.

Focus ring is nice but I give the Lux the nod there.

The DOF implementation on the Simera is a bit weird and I much prefer the one on the Summilux.

The Simera focuses at 0.4 meters

The Summilux focuses at 0.70 meters

The Simera has 14 aperture blades

The Summilux has 9 aperture blades

The Simera comes with both a round and square hood, and metal caps.

The Summilux comes with a built in hood, and plastic caps.

The Simera packaging is as good as the Summilux, more like...Show more →

Quite the list ... I was mostly meaning to ask how much is the physical size difference?

Dec 22, 2024 at 06:19 PM

RoamingScott
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p.10 #18 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

This is a wild thread

Dec 22, 2024 at 06:53 PM

stgrove
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p.10 #19 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

@Tina Kino

Mr. Leica on YouTube does regular comparisons of various lenses.

Dec 22, 2024 at 07:24 PM

retrofocus
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p.10 #20 · Why are Leicas so expensive?

catacore wrote:
I do get why Leicas are so expensive: because people are willing to pay their price.

What I don't get is why is people willing to pay that price. Being a beta tester for a 9k camera is beyond my understanding.

I will, eventually, go for an M240 just because it is old enough to have a price that I am willing to pay for, and also might be (almost) free of bugs (though I had my previous M240 to freeze several times). M10 costs far more that I am willing to pay for a camera (of any brand, actually). And I...Show more →

+1. I did exactly the same for the same reasons. I have never bought anything from Leica new, only used. This always removed the high price uptick of new gear (even now it�s so high that it will take long to go used for $3K).

Dec 22, 2024 at 09:05 PM

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