p.19 #1X100VI first impressions + running commentary
These shots were taken with my Gold sim. You can see a clear color shift if I try to push the same +1 stop in post against the JPEG. This is why using the EC dial to push in cam is very important if you want to maintain the "look" of the sim and you're shooting JPEG only. The yellows started running towards red in a hurry when pushed in post vs staying golden in camera.
p.19 #2X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Jman13 wrote: RoamingScott wroteFred Miranda wroteIt's like saying to shoot Gold film on a film camera and always overexpose it, regardless of your subject.This is a thing in film photography. Many people prefer to push a stock to get a certain look out of it, much in the same way a Fuji recipe can work via EC.
Film of course also tends to color shift rapidly as you underexpose it...Fuji recipes not as much, but it's still there to a degree especially if you've pushed the WB tint shift quite a ways.We're talking two different things here, though.
Exposure compensation is not how much you're under or over exposing the image. It's how much you're correcting the metering. The meter wants to make a scene roughly middle gray. If you have a wide variety of subject tones in the image, this will work out great. If, however, your subject or the scene has a large amount of dark colors in it (even if well lit), the camera is going to try to bring those up to gray, rather than keeping blacks black. Thus you'll overexpose the image unless you dial in negative EC. The opposite for bright scenes (such as snow, where you need to dial in +1.5 to +2 just to get a properly exposed image, because the meter is just trying to average the scene to gray.
Even if a simulation recipe looks better 2/3 stops overexposed, you'll still need to use EC to reach that, since that's 2/3 stops over middle gray....if you don't dial it back with dark subjects, you'll end up, say 1-2/3 stops overexposed instead of 2/3 stops, or you might end up underexposed with light subjects, rather than 2/3 stops overexposed.
In any case, EC still needs to be properly applied when making your exposure.
Quick visualization with my X100V just sitting here - Same settings (Aperture priority with Auto ISO and 1/60s minimum shutter) - 0 EC dialed it.
Left is metered with the camera pointed left of the laptop, with the white doors and light walls making up most of the scene - it was a bit underexposed. Then I took a second shot, metered with the camera pointed right and the laptop taking up almost the entire frame. It's now significatnly overexposed. Both with 0 EC. The proper exposure is somewhere in the middle...where it would have been beneficial to meter to the left and dial in +2/3 or +1 EC, or meter to the right and dial in negative EC (or meter with about half the laptop in frame so it balanced out the bright part.
p.19 #3X100VI first impressions + running commentary
RoamingScott wrote:
These shots were taken with my Gold sim. You can see a clear color shift if I try to push the same +1 stop in post against the JPEG. This is why using the EC dial to push in cam is very important if you want to maintain the "look" of the sim and you're shooting JPEG only. The yellows started running towards red in a hurry when pushed in post vs staying golden in camera.
Once more, you're not altering the film simulation appearance; you're only adjusting the exposure. Having a fixed setting for Exposure Compensation doesn't seem practical as it varies depending on the scene. This idea seems to have originated from a trend initiated by someone online and subsequently repeated.
I believe the proper approach is to consider that a particular recipe appears better in high-key rather than low-key, so adjust the exposure accordingly for the scene to achieve that desired look. It can't be a preset EC value because that's related to metering.
p.19 #4X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Fred Miranda wrote: RoamingScott wroteThese shots were taken with my Gold sim. You can see a clear color shift if I try to push the same +1 stop in post against the JPEG. This is why using the EC dial to push in cam is very important if you want to maintain the "look" of the sim and you're shooting JPEG only. The yellows started running towards red in a hurry when pushed in post vs staying golden in camera.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53616108682_f70a7a2123_o.jpgOnce more, you're not altering the film simulation appearance; you're only adjusting the exposure. Having a fixed setting for Exposure Compensation doesn't seem practical as it varies depending on the scene. This idea seems to have originated from a trend initiated by someone online and subsequently repeated.
I believe the proper approach is to consider that a particular recipe appears better in high-key rather than low-key, so adjust the exposure accordingly for the scene to achieve that desired look. It can't be a preset EC value because that's related to metering.
I never said you MUST shoot a film sim at a certain EC value, only that many sims are created to created their maximum effect on a well illuminated subject at a prescribed EC value (assuming matrix metering). This isn't as important as when you're using spot metering in my experience.
My suggestion posted in this thread is to use the hell out of your EC wheel, especially when the kind-of-bad matrix metering of the Fuji gives you an underexposed image. Give that thing a whirl and find what looks right for the scene in front of you. I think we're saying the same thing in two ways, though I'm leaning into the fact that, if you're shooting JPEG only, it's REALLY REALLY important to use the EC wheel to get the look you want IN CAMERA.
p.19 #5X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Fred Miranda wrote: RoamingScott wroteThese shots were taken with my Gold sim. You can see a clear color shift if I try to push the same +1 stop in post against the JPEG. This is why using the EC dial to push in cam is very important if you want to maintain the "look" of the sim and you're shooting JPEG only. The yellows started running towards red in a hurry when pushed in post vs staying golden in camera.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53616108682_f70a7a2123_o.jpgOnce more, you're not altering the film simulation appearance; you're only adjusting the exposure. Having a fixed setting for Exposure Compensation doesn't seem practical as it varies depending on the scene. This idea seems to have originated from a trend initiated by someone online and subsequently repeated.
I believe the proper approach is to consider that a particular recipe appears better in high-key rather than low-key, so adjust the exposure accordingly for the scene to achieve that desired look. It can't be a preset EC value because that's related to metering.
Hey, Fred, one thing I have noted is that altering exposure can alter things like color balance in the file. I know that it a theoretically perfect image capture that should not happen, but it does. I've seen this with my Canon camera and with Fujifilm cameras. I can usually edit my way out of such issues, but it happens.
It definitely happens if you put the exposure too hot, since the camera can run out of head room to record additional luminosity values in the hottest color channel before it does in the other two channels.
It can also happen with "underexposure" when we try to compensate in post. There are fewer values to represent luminosity differences at the dark end of the scale. Since digital recording is always imperfect (e.g. - that last bit necessarily rounds the real value), this can throw off relationships between the channels. We might not notice this if we keep the original overall image brightness, but if we drastically underexpose and then compensate in post we can definitely see some odd color stuff happen.
If I have time later on I may do a little experiment and see if I can demonstrate this.
p.19 #6X100VI first impressions + running commentary
gdanmitchell wrote: Fred Miranda wroteRoamingScott wroteThese shots were taken with my Gold sim. You can see a clear color shift if I try to push the same +1 stop in post against the JPEG. This is why using the EC dial to push in cam is very important if you want to maintain the "look" of the sim and you're shooting JPEG only. The yellows started running towards red in a hurry when pushed in post vs staying golden in camera.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53616108682_f70a7a2123_o.jpgOnce more, you're not altering the film simulation appearance; you're only adjusting the exposure. Having a fixed setting for Exposure Compensation doesn't seem practical as it varies depending on the scene. This idea seems to have originated from a trend initiated by someone online and subsequently repeated.
I believe the proper approach is to consider that a particular recipe appears better in high-key rather than low-key, so adjust the exposure accordingly for the scene to achieve that desired look. It can't be a preset EC value because that's related to metering.Hey, Fred, one thing I have noted is that altering exposure can alter things like color balance in the file. I know that it a theoretically perfect image capture that should not happen, but it does. I've seen this with my Canon camera and with Fujifilm cameras. I can usually edit my way out of such issues, but it happens.
It definitely happens if you put the exposure too hot, since the camera can run out of head room to record additional luminosity values in the hottest color channel before it does in the other two channels.
It can also happen with "underexposure" when we try to compensate in post. There are fewer values to represent luminosity differences at the dark end of the scale. Since digital recording is always imperfect (e.g. - that last bit necessarily rounds the real value), this can throw off relationships between the channels. We might not notice this if we keep the original overall image brightness, but if we drastically underexpose and then compensate in post we can definitely see some odd color stuff happen.
If I have time later on I may do a little experiment and see if I can demonstrate this.
Dan, If the change in exposure is significant enough, it can 'clip' a specific color channel, potentially altering the color output. However, this clipping is more of a side effect of under or overexposure, which is related to metering techniques, rather than a deliberate attempt to achieve a specific film look.
Nice writeup Scott. A great summary for those considering an X100 camera, particularly the V or VI.
Although I’ve seen most of the photos already here on FM, it’s nice to see them together as whole, and what a good photographer can do with these cameras. Looking forward to the further uploads as time goes on.
Although I’ve seen most of the photos already here on FM, it’s nice to see them together as whole, and what a good photographer can do with these cameras. Looking forward to the further uploads as time goes on.
Still patiently waiting for my VI pre-order…
Thanks, glad you found it useful, and I'm glad more people are finally able to get a V after wanting one for so long. Hopefully lots more images from the X100 line to come.
Although I’ve seen most of the photos already here on FM, it’s nice to see them together as whole, and what a good photographer can do with these cameras. Looking forward to the further uploads as time goes on.
Still patiently waiting for my VI pre-order…Thanks, glad you found it useful, and I'm glad more people are finally able to get a V after wanting one for so long. Hopefully lots more images from the X100 line to come.
Liked your write up as well. I see my tilted focus issue had a mention.
My X100VI is at Fujifilm repair. Still in progress and they haven’t contacted me outside of the “we got your camera”. Not sure if that’s good or bad. Email said they hoped 6-10 business day turnaround which would be generally the end of next week for return shipment. Let’s hope it’s fixed when I get it back.
p.19 #11X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Jman13 wrote: RoamingScott wroteggweci wroteRoamingScott wroteI have expanded on my original thoughts in the OP in my full review now posted up on my site.
Although I’ve seen most of the photos already here on FM, it’s nice to see them together as whole, and what a good photographer can do with these cameras. Looking forward to the further uploads as time goes on.
Still patiently waiting for my VI pre-order…Thanks, glad you found it useful, and I'm glad more people are finally able to get a V after wanting one for so long. Hopefully lots more images from the X100 line to come.Liked your write up as well. I see my tilted focus issue had a mention.
My X100VI is at Fujifilm repair. Still in progress and they haven’t contacted me outside of the “we got your camera”. Not sure if that’s good or bad. Email said they hoped 6-10 business day turnaround which would be generally the end of next week for return shipment. Let’s hope it’s fixed when I get it back.
If nothing else, it should still be faster than your average Leica repair!
p.19 #12X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Fred Miranda wrote: gdanmitchell wroteFred Miranda wroteRoamingScott wroteThese shots were taken with my Gold sim. You can see a clear color shift if I try to push the same +1 stop in post against the JPEG. This is why using the EC dial to push in cam is very important if you want to maintain the "look" of the sim and you're shooting JPEG only. The yellows started running towards red in a hurry when pushed in post vs staying golden in camera.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53616108682_f70a7a2123_o.jpgOnce more, you're not altering the film simulation appearance; you're only adjusting the exposure. Having a fixed setting for Exposure Compensation doesn't seem practical as it varies depending on the scene. This idea seems to have originated from a trend initiated by someone online and subsequently repeated.
I believe the proper approach is to consider that a particular recipe appears better in high-key rather than low-key, so adjust the exposure accordingly for the scene to achieve that desired look. It can't be a preset EC value because that's related to metering.Hey, Fred, one thing I have noted is that altering exposure can alter things like color balance in the file. I know that it a theoretically perfect image capture that should not happen, but it does. I've seen this with my Canon camera and with Fujifilm cameras. I can usually edit my way out of such issues, but it happens.
It definitely happens if you put the exposure too hot, since the camera can run out of head room to record additional luminosity values in the hottest color channel before it does in the other two channels.
It can also happen with "underexposure" when we try to compensate in post. There are fewer values to represent luminosity differences at the dark end of the scale. Since digital recording is always imperfect (e.g. - that last bit necessarily rounds the real value), this can throw off relationships between the channels. We might not notice this if we keep the original overall image brightness, but if we drastically underexpose and then compensate in post we can definitely see some odd color stuff happen.
If I have time later on I may do a little experiment and see if I can demonstrate this.
DanDan, If the change in exposure is significant enough, it can 'clip' a specific color channel, potentially altering the color output. However, this clipping is more of a side effect of under or overexposure, which is related to metering techniques, rather than a deliberate attempt to achieve a specific film look.
Yes, clipping a channel is a definite issue. (See it a lot with fall color and sunrise/sunset shots where folks let the red channel clip.)
I agree that it would seem like an odd way to simulate a film stock, with the possible exception of trying to do something film-like with the luminosity curves.
And sorry I haven’t had a chance yet to put together an example. Busy right now.
p.19 #13X100VI first impressions + running commentary
I haven't shot with a Fuji cam since the XT-1. Loving the X100VI and all the options available. Still very much learning the camera and the Fuji system but what a fun little camera.
p.19 #14X100VI first impressions + running commentary
I haven’t shot nearly as much as I want, but it is my street/travel camera and with weather and lack of travel I just haven’t had as much use for it. Took some indoor shots yesterday, and I was surprised that the AF isn’t that fast to lock up, but I need to work thru some settings to try to tweak it.
Has anyone done a pixel-peeping compare between the VI and the older models? Just wondering how the ultimate difference between the models at a base level. Kind of like the old Dpreview comparisions. I don’t think they do those anymore.
p.19 #15X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Got hands on with one of these today... the itch is back, lol. I like the weight of it, it doesn't feel like as much of a toy as my girlfriend's X100S does. Those buttons on the back are a little too flush but I love using it with the OVF and the joystick. Cool little camera.
p.19 #16X100VI first impressions + running commentary
Yesterday was my first day of using the VI extensively. After about 3.5 hours of usage, 310-ish pictures, and a couple of videos, the battery was sitting at 65%. I think I will be ok with battery life. I may get one extra just to be on the safe side.
p.19 #18X100VI first impressions + running commentary
gear-nut wrote:
I’m having trouble wrapping my brain around a fixed 35mm fov, but for some inexplicable reason, I want one!
This is my situation too. I'd far prefer a 40mm fov and my X-T30ii and 27mm do this except for the f2 bit. But I still want one. The other reason why I want one is because everyone else wants it too.
p.19 #19X100VI first impressions + running commentary
I’ll add on my thoughts. I received my VI on Thursday before heading down to Mexico Friday for a weekend trip. I was primarily shooting with my R5 but decided to take the Fuji along.
I have a X100F for reference and comparisons sake.
I only took it out a little on the trip and probably shot about 50 frames. I imported in Lightroom today and spent a small amount of time poking at them. Here are my thoughts in random order:
- the VI feels so much more refined that the F. I was not expecting this. The fit and finish and feel of the buttons is very good.
- on ergonomics; I have not missed the DPad as much as I expected. I still miss it, but am making do without it better than I thought.
- ergonomics 2; the ‘Q’ button location sucks. I like the old position and shape of the button better.
Shooting experience is good. I like the new lens. I like the responsiveness of the camera. AF was not pushed hard but seems improved. Lens sharpness is great.
Battery life is a huge step back from the F. Will take a hit to get used to that.
The thing that blew me away was the files in editing. There is so much more latitude in the highlights and shadows than the F. My shooting style often finds me trying to ‘stretch’ the dynamic range so more latitude is always welcome. I was very surprised by how responsive the files feel compared to the sensor in the F.
Overall, I am very happy with the camera. I feel it is a further refinement of the x100 line and a worthy upgrade. Definitely worth the wait.
p.19 #20X100VI first impressions + running commentary
rslhc wrote:
I’ll add on my thoughts. I received my VI on Thursday before heading down to Mexico Friday for a weekend trip. I was primarily shooting with my R5 but decided to take the Fuji along.
I have a X100F for reference and comparisons sake.
I only took it out a little on the trip and probably shot about 50 frames. I imported in Lightroom today and spent a small amount of time poking at them. Here are my thoughts in random order:
- the VI feels so much more refined that the F. I was not expecting this. The fit and finish and feel of the buttons is very good.
- on ergonomics; I have not missed the DPad as much as I expected. I still miss it, but am making do without it better than I thought.
- ergonomics 2; the ‘Q’ button location sucks. I like the old position and shape of the button better.
Shooting experience is good. I like the new lens. I like the responsiveness of the camera. AF was not pushed hard but seems improved. Lens sharpness is great.
Battery life is a huge step back from the F. Will take a hit to get used to that.
The thing that blew me away was the files in editing. There is so much more latitude in the highlights and shadows than the F. My shooting style often finds me trying to ‘stretch’ the dynamic range so more latitude is always welcome. I was very surprised by how responsive the files feel compared to the sensor in the F.
Overall, I am very happy with the camera. I feel it is a further refinement of the x100 line and a worthy upgrade. Definitely worth the wait. ...Show more →
It's a huge jump from the F for sure. You can lower battery consumption on the VI by using airplane mode and changing IBIS from continuous to shooting only.