p.5 #1 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think those who want an EVF-M are going to be waiting a very long time. I can't see Leica making such a camera in the foreseeable future. Others have tried something a bit like that (the Sigma FP series cameras and the Sony A7c series cameras) but haven't really been that successful. If Leica built such a camera, then they might sell more cameras, but I think they might lose their distinctiveness and ultimately their luxury status. I don't see how such a camera would make sense to the current Leica or to the goals they have adopted.
Thorsten Overgaard's video about the M11 and being a beta-version of an EVF-M camera might be helpful here to support the idea why Leica is likely already working on it. I agree with him that it is unlikely just an accident that the latest external EVF for the M11 fits perfectly inside the rangefinder patch by size.
I don't think Leica will sell more cameras with an EVF-M - it will more disrupt their current business especially with SL and Q series where users might switch to such EVF-M as mentioned earlier. This indeed is IMO the major culprit for such a camera: in-house competition. The luxury status thingy could be easily maintained by Leica by cranking again the price high up for such EVF-M.
p.5 #2 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
I just wanna see Leica think out side of the patch so to say-
Come up with a revolutionary new way of MF on its M line-
An EVF Rangefinder that mixes mechanical connection with EVF focus peaking- They have smarter people than I but use your decades of experience and come up with something so unique like they did with the RF patch.
Disrupt yourself or someone else will eventually disrupt your business.
p.5 #3 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
retrofocus wrote:
Thorsten Overgaard's video about the M11 and being a beta-version of an EVF-M camera might be helpful here to support the idea why Leica is likely already working on it. I agree with him that it is unlikely just an accident that the latest external EVF for the M11 fits perfectly inside the rangefinder patch by size.
I don't think Leica will sell more cameras with an EVF-M - it will more disrupt their current business especially with SL and Q series where users might switch to such EVF-M as mentioned earlier. This indeed is IMO the major culprit for such a camera: in-house competition. The luxury status thingy could be easily maintained by Leica by cranking again the price high up for such EVF-M. ...Show more →
Agree with TO theory.
About the high price. Pretty soon everything will hit $10k or go over and that is when I say enough is enough. Heck to price M11M and M11P models at $9.2 is like WOW! Are they really worth that much? No wonder M10 models are hard to find now. People discuss image quality and what not, but for many its the price to not get the M11 generation.
Now hints are that the SL3 will be around Euros 8K. If they are selling slowly now, (since SL2's have been reduced as kits for what more than a year), what will happen with the SL3? OK somewhat of a premium against close competitors is one thing, but $8k is way over. What 60MP and FINALLY PDAF is not worth that kind of pricing. Keep in mind they had to reduce the SL 601 which they initially priced at $7.5k down to around $6k if I recall. That should have been a reality check, but seems like it was not.
p.5 #4 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
stgrove wrote:
Agree with TO theory.
About the high price. Pretty soon everything will hit $10k or go over and that is when I say enough is enough. Heck to price M11M and M11P models at $9.2 is like WOW! Are they really worth that much? No wonder M10 models are hard to find now. People discuss image quality and what not, but for many its the price to not get the M11 generation.
Now hints are that the SL3 will be around Euros 8K. If they are selling slowly now, (since SL2's have been reduced as kits for what more than a year), what will happen with the SL3? OK somewhat of a premium against close competitors is one thing, but $8k is way over. What 60MP and FINALLY PDAF is not worth that kind of pricing. Keep in mind they had to reduce the SL 601 which they initially priced at $7.5k down to around $6k if I recall. That should have been a reality check, but seems like it was not. ...Show more →
+1. I believe most Leica users are thinking this - even in a forum like this and LUF this message is convoluted for various reasons. I have long given up and never bought anything from Leica new. With current prices, I have to buy at least 2 camera generations before the latest one for a more reasonable used offer. Even the M10 is still quite expensive for 24 MP! Best price/quality ratio is currently the M 240 series. Depreciation is mostly done here and prices remain constant about $2.5K. Not cheap either of course but I can at least take this camera somewhere without always feeling I might be robbed!
Leica's strategy paid off to focus on its luxury brand name and slop more affordable options like former M-E camera series (which used remaining parts from the old series when already the next one was manufactured), the CL camera, and the Summarit lens line just to name a few. Leica also focused more on collectors (I suspect from Asia and the Near East predominantly) with special editions. I give Leica that this strategy kept it afloat even during the pandemic crisis and profitable where other camera brands plunged. Unfortunately this has the negative effect for regular customers that Leica's pricing arrogance is a significant bullet to bite especially for new gear (even also used prices went up).
Coming back to the hypothetical EVF-M: if this one sees light of the day, it will be priced at least as much as the latest M rangefinder model even manufacturing cost with less mechanical parts for missing rangefinder will be less. I suspect around $9K. It might take 10 years to get it for $3K if this model does not turn out to be a failure.
p.5 #5 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
RustyRus wrote:
I just wanna see Leica think out side of the patch so to say-
Come up with a revolutionary new way of MF on its M line-
An EVF Rangefinder that mixes mechanical connection with EVF focus peaking
As much as its a great idea I'm not sure the tech is there yet. Especially with the refresh rate and quality of the EVF. The ability to discern contrast would be critical in evf rangefinder, which means the evf has to be at a high standard. Take for example Fuji digital split prism, it's great idea but the quality in the evf isn't there to make it an enjoyable experience. It's also why punch in focus and focus peaking is still the most widely used mirrorless focus system is because it magnifies contrast/image where the resolution isn't present to discern finer detail critical in focusing.
It's difficult to pack more and more pixels in a tiny screen
p.5 #7 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
mboy wrote:
As much as its a great idea I'm not sure the tech is there yet. Especially with the refresh rate and quality of the EVF. The ability to discern contrast would be critical in evf rangefinder, which means the evf has to be at a high standard. Take for example Fuji digital split prism, it's great idea but the quality in the evf isn't there to make it an enjoyable experience. It's also why punch in focus and focus peaking is still the most widely used mirrorless focus system is because it magnifies contrast/image where the resolution isn't present to discern finer detail critical in focusing.
It's difficult to pack more and more pixels in a tiny screen ...Show more →
Self Driving cars, Quantum Computing, Global Shutter with 120FPS, drones guided by Satellites sitting 800 miles away- I am sure we can squeeze another pixel or 2 in a screen
I am not saying anything is possible-Just be good to see a brand that pioneered photography continue to do that. Disruption internally is always a good thing. You can't always sit back and rest on your product- Look at Taxi cabs-
Just be fun to see some fresh ideas from Leica- Not a re-tread sensor in a massive un intresting (to me) body.
p.5 #8 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
mboy wrote:
As much as its a great idea I'm not sure the tech is there yet. Especially with the refresh rate and quality of the EVF. The ability to discern contrast would be critical in evf rangefinder, which means the evf has to be at a high standard. Take for example Fuji digital split prism, it's great idea but the quality in the evf isn't there to make it an enjoyable experience. It's also why punch in focus and focus peaking is still the most widely used mirrorless focus system is because it magnifies contrast/image where the resolution isn't present to discern finer detail critical in focusing.
It's difficult to pack more and more pixels in a tiny screen ...Show more →
IDK, the OLED EVF in the A7RV, A1, and GFX100 II is pretty fantastic. I manually focus F/.95 lenses on it without issue even in low light.
p.5 #9 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Self Driving cars, Quantum Computing, Global Shutter with 120FPS, drones guided by Satellites sitting 800 miles away- I am sure we can squeeze another pixel or 2 in a screen
I am not saying anything is possible-Just be good to see a brand that pioneered photography continue to do that. Disruption internally is always a good thing. You can't always sit back and rest on your product- Look at Taxi cabs-
Sounding a lot like Billy Joel:
"... We didn't start the fire
It was always burning, since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it"
p.5 #10 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
stgrove wrote:
I would like to see an M sized EVF camera with 24MP. The SL2S is a terrific camera with the best low light performance of any current Leica.
Yes, if it comes for $2500.....competitive with other EVF-based cameras out there providing 60 MP for $3K.
p.5 #12 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
If the SL3 is indeed in the high end of $8,000, are you still planning to get one at release, or would you prefer to wait for a used copy down the road?
p.5 #13 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Owlseyes: " I'd actually be interested in the Leica SL system if they'd make a faster lens that goes out to 400mm... let's say a 400 f4.5 that takes a 1.4x converter."
I use my SL2 with the Nikon 500pf regularly for nature shots, including birding (rested, not flying). It also works quite well with the Nikon TCiii extender on the SL2. Nice lightweight combination with excellent results.
p.5 #14 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Fred Miranda wrote:
If the SL3 is indeed in the high end of $8,000, are you still planning to get one at release, or would you prefer to wait for a used copy down the road?
I think Nikon crushed every other manufacturer's ambitions to have every new and improved camera body come in at a higher price point. $8,000 for a non-stacked, non-global, slow readout sensor would be ludicrous even for Leica, IMO.
p.5 #15 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Fred Miranda wrote:
If the SL3 is indeed in the high end of $8,000, are you still planning to get one at release, or would you prefer to wait for a used copy down the road?
Since I am offered first choice on new products it will depend on the specs and any upcoming destinations for its use. If same sensor as M11 and Q3 with Q3 auto-focus capabilities at least then that helps the decision. I do not buy any camera for video.
p.5 #16 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
A user over at a large digital photography review site has seen the SL3 in a store in NYC and confirms that it is smaller, has a 61mp sensor, a flippy screen and better AF.
p.5 #17 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
What does the date have to do with SL3. I don’t get it.
April is April Fool so M5 EVF will be announced.
Fred Miranda wrote:
According to leicarumors, the Leica SL3 camera is rumored to be announced on or around March 21-22 with a price tag under €8,000.
"Leica always liked to play with dates/numbers in the past – do you remember the M9 on 09.09.09? The price of the SL3 is expected to be under €8,000 (see current Leica SL2 and Leica M11 prices on Amazon).
Here are the rumored specifications:
The Leica SL3 will use the same 60MP sensor as the M11/Q3
There will be a new body that is only a bit smaller than the current SL2
6.5 stops image stabilization
Phase detection AF
9fps continuous shooting
Supports cropped 8K/30p and 4K/60p + full-frame & S35 C4K/30p
The camera is already being tested in the field
Registered Type 5404 model
A new Leica M-mount lens will also be announced a month later (sometime in April)."...Show more →
p.5 #18 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
lol come one man. sclarnsd wrote:
A user over at a large digital photography review site has seen the SL3 in a store in NYC and confirms that it is smaller, has a 61mp sensor, a flippy screen and better AF.
p.5 #19 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
How offers you first choice?
stgrove wrote:
Since I am offered first choice on new products it will depend on the specs and any upcoming destinations for its use. If same sensor as M11 and Q3 with Q3 auto-focus capabilities at least then that helps the decision. I do not buy any camera for video.
p.5 #20 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
I find it amusing when people complain about Leica pricing; it's a LUXURY product. I wonder if people complain about $30K Rolex watches?
Would I buy an SL3 for $8K? Nope. An M12 for $10K? Nope. I might wait for pricing to go down when initial buyers sell for a loss. I mean you can get M11s for around $6.8K now.
In any case, let the people with $$ buy the MSRP Leica pricing; I'll buy if the product is good when they sell them for a loss. That's the way it always goes. I think it's fine as long as you're comfortable buying used.
