p.4 #2 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Excited to see this finally coming around. Of course, I've been waiting for a 21mm Summicron since announcement with no delivery in sight, so I won't get my hopes up for personally seeing this camera in 2024.
Regarding weight, I did a deep dive into this a few years ago. A Sony A1 kit with a "holy trinity" combo of lenses is only about 600-700g lighter than the Leica combo. Of course this can depend a lot on lens choice, but was surprisingly close with the usual suspects (16-35, 24-70/24-90, 100-400).
As much as I wanted the Sony to work for me, I found its ergonomics remarkably lacking. Mainly because my large ape-like hands don't fit well.
p.4 #3 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Stephen G wrote:
Right
Steve Jobs used to say something along the lines of he'd rather cannibalize his own sales than have someone else do it. Leica could probably take a page out of that book. Look at what Sony has done with the a7c line..
An SL3c would be more interesting to me than an SL3-S derivative.
I think the Q really was a surprise success for them after trying a few fixed lens variants over the years.
They are clearly afraid of a an EVF-M or L-mount Q type form factor harming M/Q/SL sales but.. I think it is foolish.
I have dabbled in the SL system multiple times (and honestly the A7, Z and S1r as well) and just.. can't do the big mirrorless.
I love the M & Q.
Sell me a mirrorless I'd love too.
Plenty of their customers are like me I would believe.. ...Show more →
+1. Couldn't agree more! If the Q wouldn't have been as successful, I am sure Leica would already soon release an "EVF M" with SL sales being far below expectations. But the Q's success might push a potential "EVF M" release further out. I personally would never vest into a fixed lens MLC like the Q-series especially for the given price tag, but this is just me. Big part of why I shoot Leica M is the flexibility to use all kind of M- and LTM lenses.
p.4 #4 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
I have said his before. My Hasselblad with 38V weighs 500g less than my SL with 35mm APO and I like the files better. I am literally never ever taking the SL with me...
Extraordinary!
As I said the initial decision on the size/weight of the SL series was a real blunder. Even at the time, before it came out so many people on forums were asking for it to be small (they knew Leica’s tendencies with SLRs). I also remember there was almost universal criticism of the size when it actually appeared. And then came the huge zooms to join it. Who made these decisions against almost all advice?
Since then there has been a continual clamour for either an M with an evf (in addition to the existing M) or more latterly an interchangeable lens Q. Does Leica not want the sales it would make from all the existing M users who would buy such a second camera, and all the sales from non-Leica users who at the moment baulk at the bulk of an SL? Everyone knows the SL cameras are poor sellers. Any Leica dealer will confirm this.
The Canon EOS R stuff is indecipherable to me though, lol.
I'd prefer an SL-C that is somewhere closer to the Q/M end of this spectrum rather than the X2D end.
p.4 #7 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Why is everyone obsessed with Leica giving them a "choice"?
You want a smaller camera than the SL series, lighter and more compact? Buy a M11.
You also want autofocus? Buy a Q.
You want the ultimate image quality? It's going to have to be a SL2.
p.4 #8 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Oldwino wrote:
You want a smaller camera than the SL series, lighter and more compact? Buy a M11.
Yes if rangefinder with OVF is feasible in all situations. But there is currently no "EVF M".
You also want autofocus? Buy a Q.
If you are fine with one fixed lens and software based cropping. I am not!
You want the ultimate image quality? It's going to have to be a SL2.
As good as other multiple mirrorless camera options (often for lower price).
p.4 #9 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Simple - if CaNikSony can offer 17 form factors each of FF mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras.. Leica could offer 2.
And in Leica's own interest if they'd like to increase sales on their worst selling camera line.
They aren't going to win on price or tech specs race with the big 3.
They do win on ergonomics, optics, and sometimes build quality.
p.4 #10 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
SlowDriver wrote:
The SL2 weighs 835g (body only) whereas the Z8 weighs 820g (body only)(910g with battery). Let's not compare SL2 weight without battery to Z8 weight with battery. Camera Size should know better...
I have said his before. My Hasselblad with 38V weighs 500g less than my SL with 35mm APO and I like the files better. I am literally never ever taking the SL with me...
I didn't see that. I don't have a Z8 to directly compare to. So, essentially the same. Could anyone pick one as heavier without a scale? I'm not sure that negates my point that the Nikon weight is a non issue but the Leica weight is an anchor.
Yep. I have the same dilemma. I mentioned the X2D above. For me it'll be if the SL3 can replace my A7R5. The X2D doesn't have the wide and longer zooms I'd like. The 90-280 in particular. I'd like more reach than my GFX100-200 has, even with the TC. The 90-280 is by some margin the best zoom I've tried in this range.
The SL series also has a couple of things the Sony is missing that I find useful. Metered exposures to 30 minutes and in camera high res shot. the joystick is leagues better. And the app is better.. Combined with the M11/Q3/A7R5 sensor it'll be a pretty cool camera. that should compliment my Hasselblad nicely. That'll change if HB make a longer zoom.
p.4 #11 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Stephen G wrote:
Clearly the SL are poor sellers by the number of sales/bundles/rebates they seem to offer each year that I have never seen on M/Q lines.
Fuji have a sale about every three months here. Sony prices begin discounting after 6 months. The R5 is EOL and I can easily get a deal on that. About the only bodies I can't get some kind of deal on is the Nikon Z8 and Zf because they're hot right now. Well done Nikon.
Leica say they're happy with the numbers. The SL2 is four years old so any one who wants one already has one. We'll see how long the wait list is for the SL3 when it arrives.
p.4 #12 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Oldwino wrote:
Why is everyone obsessed with Leica giving them a "choice"?
You want a smaller camera than the SL series, lighter and more compact? Buy a M11.
You also want autofocus? Buy a Q.
You want the ultimate image quality? It's going to have to be a SL2.
Lot's of choice.
You want choice. Buy a Sony. Leica don't offer choice. It's a deliberate strategy to keep their product lines separate.
2x EVIL cameras. Will likely be one with the SL3 and multi resolution.
1x rangefinder.
1x fixed lens *compact*.
The CL and Panasonic rebadges have disappeared.
You have more choice in film bodies than digital.
Gordon
p.s. If Leica wanted market share they'd make a Q50 and Q90. They know there's demand. They know they'd sell like hotcakes. The hipsters love the Q. It'd get all the right Instagram coverage. No need to go after the big three directly. But they don't because they won't have any possible crossover with their other lines.
p.4 #13 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
flash wrote:
The CL and Panasonic rebadges have disappeared.
Let's also not forget the Leica S which Leica very deliberately and very slowly allowed to bleed to death for the better part of a decade...
flash wrote:
Leica don't offer choice. It's a deliberate strategy to keep their product lines separate.
I see it perhaps slightly differently. Leica builds niche cameras that complement the digital M:
The Leica M film bodies obviously because you can use the same lenses
The Q because it offers AF and close focusing. It is also not a threat to the M because of the fixed focal length
The Leica SL is Leica's video solution and long lens solution and you can obviously use M lenses as well. Also not a threat to the M because of size/weight
Leica IMHO does not build the best SL it can build. It builds the SL that best complements the digital M.
p.4 #14 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
stgrove wrote:
slow driver
Which Hassy model do you use?
Still on the X1DII. Will buy an X2D this year but it does add weight because of IBIS. Will probably keep the X1DII for that reason (and also as backup).
p.4 #15 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
retrofocus wrote:
If the Q wouldn't have been as successful, I am sure Leica would already soon release an "EVF M" with SL sales being far below expectations.
The Q is probably a Godsend for Leica but I do feel that at the same time it stifled most if not all of the innovation at Leica.
p.4 #17 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
flash wrote:
You want choice. Buy a Sony. Leica don't offer choice. It's a deliberate strategy to keep their product lines separate.
2x EVIL cameras. Will likely be one with the SL3 and multi resolution.
1x rangefinder.
1x fixed lens *compact*.
The CL and Panasonic rebadges have disappeared.
You have more choice in film bodies than digital.
Gordon
p.s. If Leica wanted market share they'd make a Q50 and Q90. They know there's demand. They know they'd sell like hotcakes. The hipsters love the Q. It'd get all the right Instagram coverage. No need to go after the big three directly. But they don't because they won't have any possible crossover with their other lines.
p.4 #18 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
highdesertmesa wrote:
Oh no, not the hipster mud slinging! And craggy old farts love the M? I guess that's why I like to use both as a Gen X
If I pick on any other group I end up as a evil fascist.... Hipsters are all we have left.
Gordon
Jan 18, 2024 at 09:50 PM
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p.4 #19 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
SlowDriver wrote:
Let's also not forget the Leica S which Leica very deliberately and very slowly allowed to bleed to death for the better part of a decade...
I see it perhaps slightly differently. Leica builds niche cameras that complement the digital M:
The Leica M film bodies obviously because you can use the same lenses
The Q because it offers AF and close focusing. It is also not a threat to the M because of the fixed focal length
The Leica SL is Leica's video solution and long lens solution and you can obviously use M lenses as well. Also not a threat to the M because of size/weight
Leica IMHO does not build the best SL it can build. It builds the SL that best complements the digital M. ...Show more →
In my view Leica doesn't have the same goals as other camera manufacturers. As a luxury brand they have little interest in selling more cameras. Sure they want a robust market for the cameras they sell, but producing and selling more cameras does not seem to be part of their strategy. In fact, doing so might dilute the luxury cred of their brand.
I think they also like to make cameras that are distinctive. The Leica M fits their branding quite well because it is distinctive and you just shoot it differently than other cameras. It makes sense that it is the core of their camera strategy. The Q complements the Leica M and it is also a distinctive camera.
If you are Leica and want to keep the Leica M as the distinctive camera at the center of your branding, then what type of mirrorless interchangeable camera do you build? Remembering that as Leica you don't care about selling lots of cameras but just maximizing the price of the small share of the market you hold, I think that you end up with a camera a lot like the SL cameras. Very different from the Leica M so the core of your brand and your marketing doesn't get challenged, but a great viewfinder, a comfortable size, you make it feel solid, and you provide absolutely premium lenses. I could quibble with some of their choices, but I see little reason why they would change the basic strategy they have taken.
I think those who want an EVF-M are going to be waiting a very long time. I can't see Leica making such a camera in the foreseeable future. Others have tried something a bit like that (the Sigma FP series cameras and the Sony A7c series cameras) but haven't really been that successful. If Leica built such a camera, then they might sell more cameras, but I think they might lose their distinctiveness and ultimately their luxury status. I don't see how such a camera would make sense to the current Leica or to the goals they have adopted.
p.4 #20 · Leica SL3 is set to be announced on March 21-22
Stephen G wrote:
Simple - if CaNikSony can offer 17 form factors each of FF mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras.. Leica could offer 2.
And in Leica's own interest if they'd like to increase sales on their worst selling camera line.
They aren't going to win on price or tech specs race with the big 3.
They do win on ergonomics, optics, and sometimes build quality.
And often on optical quality, rendering more pleasing final image quality. That is what I am after in the end.
Interesting that the kid (at the time) who designed the Q now works for Hasselblad.
Hipsters are all we have left.