p.18 #1 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
The Simeras make a lot of sense even as an adjunct lens (or lenses as two more are expected) to an existing lens set simply because they are designed with a different imaging end goals in mind - the emphasis in all lenses thus far is on close focus, relaxed smooth transitions, and moderate but very careful engineered contrast levels so as to retain image motifs within ultra smooth bokeh - used as a storytelling device.
The other differences include stronger attention to resolution over edge acutance. So when reviewers describe them as 'not overly sharp but sharp enough', that is what they mean. It is as though they restrained broad edge MTF while retaining high fine detail MTF. They have devoted great attention to producing very clean bokeh balls to complement the 14 blade apertures, and to ensuring low contrast outer frame bokeh.
This requires solid correction of spherical aberration (erring on the 'under' side if anything), which is a key emergent factor in pleasant imagery in the 2020s. Downstream 'vintage' effects like glow are tasteful rather than obvious. Color is extremely good, vibrant with a lot of tonal range and easy processing. Bokeh is best described as lush, often quite addictively so, and used skillfully as a counterpoint to the strong focal plane performance. Part of the cine aesthetic is getting the lens out of the way while portraying the scene beautifully.
Interesting also is the fact that they headed in the opposite direction to the path taken by Leica, who used their long-standing Summilux range as the basis for lightly modified cine lenses (the M 0.8 range) - wheras DZO introduced their 'sleeper cell' cine-influenced lenses in the stills Simeras first, to test that market while preparing the cine versions of the exact same lens formulas (with a simple rehousing, focus throw, plus two more aperture blades). The Leica M is the toughest lens market to try this with.
So rather than seek to make cheap and close copies of Leica M lenses, DZO pushed out well-balanced cine aesthetic lenses alongside Leica's and Cosina's quite distinctive house renderings. Cine oriented users of the new and quite wonderful small cameras like the Sony's FX series and RED Komodo (even DJI Ronin 4D) are seeing the family style of DZO's well-regarded middle tier ranges (Arles) show up in the Simeras - high praise indeed. The trick is to get the balance right in design terms for end users, and these lenses are a very good start that portend well for an interesting next few years.
Photography now has three high end manual focus lens styles to choose from, and to mix and match,. Pre-2024, we had just two comprehensive MF lens producers (apologies to the others who make some excellent products as well). All of them using the 'modern vintage' look - one from coming from there (Leica); one from looking back there (Cosina); and one designing for there (DZO/Thypoch).
I predict this emerging trend will steadily infiltrate the major lens makers styles, given time - Sony, Nikon and Canon; and we can see some of it beginning with some recent Nikon f1.4 lenses in Z mount. They of course have a richer background in MF lenses than the other two. Most people do not appreciate the long lead times involved in developing new look lenses from drawing board to retail, so it will take some time.
p.18 #2 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Reading through the well-informed reviews of the Simera-C release promo YT video published by Media Division..
'Cine lenses that fit in your hand – The fast Full Frame Thypoch Simera-C T1.5 lenses Test & Review'
..I came cross this post some may be interested in, as a report and as a resource:
'Fun fact: the M mount version of the 28mm can actually cover digital medium formats as large as the PhaseOne IQ3/IQ4 with good definition, it's way beyond full frame. Although this E mount cine version might have a smaller image circle due to the flange distance and diameter.
Really wishing for an M mount version of this set (with range finder coupling), it'll be the greatest lens of all time: able to mount onto and produce great results on Leica rangefinders, S35 cine cameras, modern FF mirrorless, and medium formats, all while being small and fast.'
'I know someone who has an IQ4, and has been using it to test new and vintage lens coverages. I was able to get some of the lenses' test results from him, and Simera 28 1.4 was one of the few 135 format lenses that produced fairly useable result on the IQ4.
On the note of coverage, there is a dude (Chris) who made a google sheet of near a thousand lenses and their coverage on medium format. Although it's a community effort so the tests are not subject to the same standard.'
I had an intuition the 28mm was special, partly because so many movies are made with lenses around this focal length. As a established cine lens producer, DZO are very aware of this fact. The increasing complexity of their (all T1.5) lenses with wider angles reflects this fact and, like Cosina they are trying to keep size/weight down to a minimum:
p.18 #3 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
philip_pj wrote:
Reading through the well-informed reviews of the Simera-C release promo YT video published by Media Division..
'Cine lenses that fit in your hand – The fast Full Frame Thypoch Simera-C T1.5 lenses Test & Review'
..I came cross this post some may be interested in, as a report and as a resource:
'Fun fact: the M mount version of the 28mm can actually cover digital medium formats as large as the PhaseOne IQ3/IQ4 with good definition, it's way beyond full frame. Although this E mount cine version might have a smaller image circle due to the flange distance and diameter.
Really wishing for an M mount version of this set (with range finder coupling), it'll be the greatest lens of all time: able to mount onto and produce great results on Leica rangefinders, S35 cine cameras, modern FF mirrorless, and medium formats, all while being small and fast.'
'I know someone who has an IQ4, and has been using it to test new and vintage lens coverages. I was able to get some of the lenses' test results from him, and Simera 28 1.4 was one of the few 135 format lenses that produced fairly useable result on the IQ4.
On the note of coverage, there is a dude (Chris) who made a google sheet of near a thousand lenses and their coverage on medium format. Although it's a community effort so the tests are not subject to the same standard.'
I had an intuition the 28mm was special, partly because so many movies are made with lenses around this focal length. As a established cine lens producer, DZO are very aware of this fact. The increasing complexity of their (all T1.5) lenses with wider angles reflects this fact and, like Cosina they are trying to keep size/weight down to a minimum:
p.18 #5 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
I have the 50/1.4 and 28/1.4, and intend to buy the 75mm. I am reluctant to post more than a few garden shots for the few curious people who want to inform themselves about these very different and what I consider high end lenses.
If interest is low at FM, I don't like 'pushing' images on the site, and that seemed to be the case here. Most people are not interested and that's fine. Probably it's best to post about the number of images the average member does. That's not many as it is more of a conversation site these days. Information about any 'different' lenses and photographic issues are something Fred seems happy to have, so I've used this thread to do this too.
Putting aside build/features, I like them primarily for the cine influences they have gained from DZO's other ranges. I've always wanted lenses that work great at close distances with great color and character and - most of all - dimensionality, a clumsy term for image depth or 3D.
It's not a quality the stills world values highly, often not at all. Simply put, I like their design choices and see their lenses working very well with what I want to do. So it's an artistic choice, if you will.
p.18 #6 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Just fyi for any that are curious - I contacted B&H yesterday in regards to the availability of the newer versions of these lenses without the infinity lock and with a focus tab. They don't have any information about their availability and currently only have the product sku's for the infinity lock version. The implication is that any change or update to the lens should have a different product sku.
p.18 #7 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Just fyi for any that are curious - I contacted B&H yesterday in regards to the availability of the newer versions of these lenses without the infinity lock and with a focus tab. They don't have any information about their availability and currently only have the product sku's for the infinity lock version. The implication is that any change or update to the lens should have a different product sku.
I had a 35/1.4 about 3 week ago I ordered from "Kellards" off Amazon. It had a focus tab and no infinite lock. It's a huge improvement on that lens. Just an FYI.
Jan 08, 2025 at 08:37 PM
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p.18 #8 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
thrice wrote:
The confusion this might cause, especially given thypoch seemingly aren't labelling how a lens is optimised, would be frustrating.
They also are making cine lenses that are presumably modified for mirrorless cameras--as they market them for mirrorless cameras--with a Leica M mount. It would be a lot easier if they would just say what lenses have and have not been modified for mirrorless.
p.18 #9 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
philip_pj wrote:
It's not a quality the stills world values highly, often not at all.
Once you "see" it, there's no going back.
Not everyone can appreciate the differences and that's fine, and happy with what they have, because finding "faults" will only get in the way of creativities. With my current combo I no longer think of field curvature, focus shift, transition zones etc, I just focus on my composition.
p.18 #10 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I had a 35/1.4 about 3 week ago I ordered from "Kellards" off Amazon. It had a focus tab and no infinite lock. It's a huge improvement on that lens. Just an FYI.
Native M mount? The other mounts do have a focus tab already which is why I ask. If it is an M mount version, that's very interesting that Kellards would have it and not B&H.
Edit- just looked at the 35/1.4 M version for sale by Kellards on Amazon. At least the images still show the infinity lock but given Amazon, that's probably nothing to go by.
p.18 #11 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Native M mount? The other mounts do have a focus tab already which is why I ask. If it is an M mount version, that's very interesting that Kellards would have it and not B&H.
Edit- just looked at the 35/1.4 M version for sale by Kellards on Amazon. At least the images still show the infinity lock but given Amazon, that's probably nothing to go by.
p.18 #12 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
A little more on the Simera 75mm. Low distortion, thank you as profile recovery is becoming common in short tele designs. Vignette effectively disappears in two significant steps: f1.4 to f2, and f2 to f2.8. It's what we can expect from a maker who provides their lenses in five mounts, and uses a 14 blade aperture for stopped down photography.
Breathing is 'moderate' which is fine in a portrait 75mm (my opinion) where 80mm at 1.5m or so is actually preferable. Below is a comparison with Leica's Summilux-R 80/1.4. It comes from a very knowledgeable Chinese Youtuber and features some decent footage showing a lot of people imagery from the 28mm, a lot from the 75mm and the 35mm:
YT title: '徕卡M0.8平替？叙Thypoch Simera-c full frame T1.5 super speed cinema lens'
(Sadly, no subtitles.)
Summilux-R 80/1.4 (a slightly better corrected vsn of the 75/1.4 Lux, with less astigmatism).
p.18 #13 · New M-Mount 28/1.4 and 35/1.4 from Thypoch
Thypoch told me Feb.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Just fyi for any that are curious - I contacted B&H yesterday in regards to the availability of the newer versions of these lenses without the infinity lock and with a focus tab. They don't have any information about their availability and currently only have the product sku's for the infinity lock version. The implication is that any change or update to the lens should have a different product sku.
