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Archive 2023Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
p.5 #1Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
No it is not . I want to pick up any Sony camera and be able to do that. Why are we making excuses for this thing. It don't work. It's pretty simple Sony cheaped out and you are all saying its okay , its not okay. Im a working Pro I have several bodies and I want them all to work. The 200 was just to over amplify what's really going on and that's they are cutting off even more limitations. I can't buy this A7C in any flavor. So they leave a working Pro and many thousands of us because they want to save production money. They lost the point of all this..
Im just making a point here but I don't forgive anyone, give us what we need not some half baked cam
Im just making a point here but I don't forgive anyone, give us what we need not some half baked cam
Sep 01, 2023 at 06:48 AM
p.5 #2Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
Seriously it’s not about us as individuals no one cares what I do or even shoot this is about the Sony end users be it you need certain things or not but as a community of 1 million users. As a Pro can’t I use a A7C. Who decides that not you I can tell ya right now nor anyone else. But my 6700 at half the costs gives me all the benefits of my A7RV now does that make any sense.
Folks Im a Sony fanboy too but I see a downside somewhere it's going to be called out, I am certainly not shy to not scream bloody murder. My role is to help all of us end users its not about what I want its about what is run into on a daily basis for the global photo community. I am fighting LED lighting all over the place as of late. It's not just about some football field but arenas , theaters, stage ballrooms and all kinds of places this stuff shows up and even this EFCS issue not everyone is going to accept this look. I can't tell ahead of time working for a client if they like this look or not. Give us every option under the sun and the ability to turn shit off as well
Edited on Sep 01, 2023 at 07:06 AM · View previous versions
Folks Im a Sony fanboy too but I see a downside somewhere it's going to be called out, I am certainly not shy to not scream bloody murder. My role is to help all of us end users its not about what I want its about what is run into on a daily basis for the global photo community. I am fighting LED lighting all over the place as of late. It's not just about some football field but arenas , theaters, stage ballrooms and all kinds of places this stuff shows up and even this EFCS issue not everyone is going to accept this look. I can't tell ahead of time working for a client if they like this look or not. Give us every option under the sun and the ability to turn shit off as well
Edited on Sep 01, 2023 at 07:06 AM · View previous versions
Sep 01, 2023 at 06:57 AM
p.5 #3Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
I don't really think it is a question of cheap--the A7Cr costs more than twice what the a6700 costs. I think it is a question of small. And also that Sony's philosophy has been to make a range of different cameras for different needs and applications. For example, some are stills-centric, some are video-centric. Some are larger with very high frame rates for shooting large lenses at tweety birds; some are to take along easily when you travel or t be small and discreet on the street. The A7Cxx series is intended to create the smallest full frame camera available, now with very high resolution and enhanced ergonomics. Making cameras that serve some needs better than others involves making tradeoffs in design.
Sep 01, 2023 at 07:02 AM
p.5 #4Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
There are disadvantages to turning EFCS off. Three of the most important are that it perceptibly increases shutter-lag, which has been an issue that many shooters have been concerned about for years. Second, it introduces vibrations into the camera at the precise moment the exposure is being made, something that can damage sharpness, especially at lower shutter speeds. Third, it cuts off your view of the subject at the moment before exposure, so that you can't actually see the instant that you are capturing.
Given that I like to shoot candids of people, often in low light, these three items are of more concern to me than the rare issue of cut-off balls.
(Did I say really that?)
Given that I like to shoot candids of people, often in low light, these three items are of more concern to me than the rare issue of cut-off balls.
(Did I say really that?)
Sep 01, 2023 at 07:09 AM
p.5 #5Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
GMPhotography wrote:
No it is not . I want to pick up any Sony camera and be able to do that. Why are we making excuses for this thing. It don't work. It's pretty simple Sony cheaped out and you are all saying its okay , its not okay. Im a working Pro I have several bodies and I want them all to work. The 200 was just to over amplify what's really going on and that's they are cutting off even more limitations. I can't buy this A7C in any flavor. So they leave a working Pro and many thousands of...Show more →
I don’t agree with that statement, it’s a different camera segment serving a different purpose. It’s not realistic to expect the entire a7rV in a smaller package for $900 less. It’s not aimed at machine gunning pros that need speed, big EVF’s, two cards, tons of controls, zero overheating, internal fans and so on. It’s just a compact FF camera. Big sensor goodness with less bulk. Despite a few shortcomings which are easy workarounds, they nailed it.
Chris
No it is not . I want to pick up any Sony camera and be able to do that. Why are we making excuses for this thing. It don't work. It's pretty simple Sony cheaped out and you are all saying its okay , its not okay. Im a working Pro I have several bodies and I want them all to work. The 200 was just to over amplify what's really going on and that's they are cutting off even more limitations. I can't buy this A7C in any flavor. So they leave a working Pro and many thousands of...Show more →
I don’t agree with that statement, it’s a different camera segment serving a different purpose. It’s not realistic to expect the entire a7rV in a smaller package for $900 less. It’s not aimed at machine gunning pros that need speed, big EVF’s, two cards, tons of controls, zero overheating, internal fans and so on. It’s just a compact FF camera. Big sensor goodness with less bulk. Despite a few shortcomings which are easy workarounds, they nailed it.
Chris
Sep 01, 2023 at 07:15 AM
p.5 #6Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
chiron wrote:
There are disadvantages to turning EFCS off. Three of the most important are that it perceptibly increases shutter-lag, which has been an issue that many shooters have been concerned about for years. Second, it introduces vibrations into the camera at the precise moment the exposure is being made, something that can damage sharpness, especially at lower shutter speeds. Third, it cuts off your view of the subject at the moment before exposure, so that you can't actually see the instant that you are capturing.
Given that I like to shoot candids of people, often in low light, these three items are...Show more →
You keep talking about EFSC that's only one thing there is a bunch of other issues with these setups. I give up here. Sony fanboy block
Like I said it's not about what you do or what I do but about the global effect of all this. Stop thinking you people, that's not how you build a product
There are disadvantages to turning EFCS off. Three of the most important are that it perceptibly increases shutter-lag, which has been an issue that many shooters have been concerned about for years. Second, it introduces vibrations into the camera at the precise moment the exposure is being made, something that can damage sharpness, especially at lower shutter speeds. Third, it cuts off your view of the subject at the moment before exposure, so that you can't actually see the instant that you are capturing.
Given that I like to shoot candids of people, often in low light, these three items are...Show more →
You keep talking about EFSC that's only one thing there is a bunch of other issues with these setups. I give up here. Sony fanboy block
Like I said it's not about what you do or what I do but about the global effect of all this. Stop thinking you people, that's not how you build a product
Sep 01, 2023 at 07:15 AM
p.5 #7Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
I think that it's a deliberate move by Sony to gimp "C" series this way, so it cannot completely replace your "regular" camera... That's why C won't handle all the situations you throw at it, the way regular 7 cameras do.
So, yes it's not a cam for pros
... but on the other hand I think EFCS issue is a bit overblown. Yes, it can ruin your shot but in most cases it won't. I'm ok with that as long as people don't try to sell false narrative that it's not an issue at all, like in the video...
So, yes it's not a cam for pros
... but on the other hand I think EFCS issue is a bit overblown. Yes, it can ruin your shot but in most cases it won't. I'm ok with that as long as people don't try to sell false narrative that it's not an issue at all, like in the video...Sep 01, 2023 at 07:18 AM
p.5 #8Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
j4nu wrote:
I think that it's a deliberate move by Sony to gimp "C" series this way, so it cannot completely replace your "regular" camera... That's why C won't handle all the situations you throw at it, the way regular 7 cameras do.
So, yes it's not a cam for pros ... but on the other hand I think EFCS issue is a bit overblown. Yes, it can ruin your shot but in most cases it won't. I'm ok with that as long as people don't try to sell false narrative that it's not an issue at all, like in the video...
I agree the false narrative has got me upset. I been here and an ambassador as well for Leica and Phase one. Tell the absolute truth or shut your face up. I never lie or tell a false anything. Speak your mind and have no regrets. And worse I like Mark but he danced and that's bad
Gotta run to work. Have fun with this
I think that it's a deliberate move by Sony to gimp "C" series this way, so it cannot completely replace your "regular" camera... That's why C won't handle all the situations you throw at it, the way regular 7 cameras do.
So, yes it's not a cam for pros
... but on the other hand I think EFCS issue is a bit overblown. Yes, it can ruin your shot but in most cases it won't. I'm ok with that as long as people don't try to sell false narrative that it's not an issue at all, like in the video...I agree the false narrative has got me upset. I been here and an ambassador as well for Leica and Phase one. Tell the absolute truth or shut your face up. I never lie or tell a false anything. Speak your mind and have no regrets. And worse I like Mark but he danced and that's bad
Gotta run to work. Have fun with this
Sep 01, 2023 at 07:30 AM
p.5 #9Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
Losing the fully-mechanical shutter (without an equivalent-speed fully-electronic shutter like on the A1) is not the end of the world, and there are more situations where the EFCS is more useful than a fully-mechanical shutter, but I agree with Guy that it represents a pretty greedy move on Sony's part to save a few dollars for a significant loss of function, esp on a body that is still quite expensive.
Sep 01, 2023 at 07:41 AM
p.5 #10Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
I don’t like the way Mark discussed the EFCS issue in his video either-too strongly defended- but I’ll stick with what I said earlier about the purpose of this camera-travel light with small lenses stopped down. It’s not geared toward pros. For instance, I’m sure anyone on a paid job would want a second slot available. I don’t think Sony needs to make every body please everybody. These will sell well for their intended market.
Sep 01, 2023 at 07:50 AM
p.5 #11Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
cxpics wrote:
That said, I haven't heard anyone address the purely electronic shutter and when distortion actually shows up. I get that swinging a golf club, hummingbird wings, or other fast moving objects will distort - but is this noticeable in every day snapshots of friends/people/street/portraits? The only situation I noticed exceeding 1/1000 with my 45mm 2.8 lens is extremely sunny days - but again when I'm using that lens nothing is moving very quickly so ES should alleviate any bokeh issues with that use case. I know ES can cause banding with LEDs but the only use case would be using...Show more →
You can get warping when a slow-readout ES is used in combination with IBIS/OIS.
That said, I haven't heard anyone address the purely electronic shutter and when distortion actually shows up. I get that swinging a golf club, hummingbird wings, or other fast moving objects will distort - but is this noticeable in every day snapshots of friends/people/street/portraits? The only situation I noticed exceeding 1/1000 with my 45mm 2.8 lens is extremely sunny days - but again when I'm using that lens nothing is moving very quickly so ES should alleviate any bokeh issues with that use case. I know ES can cause banding with LEDs but the only use case would be using...Show more →
You can get warping when a slow-readout ES is used in combination with IBIS/OIS.
Sep 01, 2023 at 07:52 AM
p.5 #12Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
j4nu wrote:
I think that it's a deliberate move by Sony to gimp "C" series this way, so it cannot completely replace your "regular" camera... That's why C won't handle all the situations you throw at it, the way regular 7 cameras do.
So, yes it's not a cam for pros
... but on the other hand I think EFCS issue is a bit overblown. Yes, it can ruin your shot but in most cases it won't. I'm ok with that as long as people don't try to sell false narrative that it's not an issue at all, like in the video...This is the most reasonable take. It sure is an issue, but the removal of the hump is such a nice(but hard to quantify) benefit, if it wasn't people would just be looking past this camera instead of being up in arms about it. Doesn't seem like removing the hump and adding small corner EVF requires all the limitations in this camera design, certainly not the joystick. I'd rather no EVF at all, keep all the functionality and give us a hot shoe EVF accessory. That said I'm okay with the compromises, I'll happily upgrade in a few years if they can get the shutter sorted, but that could be never also so I'll take it as is now.
Sep 01, 2023 at 08:11 AM
p.5 #13Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
chiron wrote:
There are disadvantages to turning EFCS off. Three of the most important are that it perceptibly increases shutter-lag, which has been an issue that many shooters have been concerned about for years. Second, it introduces vibrations into the camera at the precise moment the exposure is being made, something that can damage sharpness, especially at lower shutter speeds. Third, it cuts off your view of the subject at the moment before exposure, so that you can't actually see the instant that you are capturing.
Given that I like to shoot candids of people, often in low light, these three items are...Show more →
Disadvantages ... yes. But it should be the photographer's choice whether to turn EFCS on or off. I usually keep it off. But for f/1.2 or f/1.4 shots at 1/1000th or faster, I'll choose full mechanical shutter (EFCS off).
There are disadvantages to turning EFCS off. Three of the most important are that it perceptibly increases shutter-lag, which has been an issue that many shooters have been concerned about for years. Second, it introduces vibrations into the camera at the precise moment the exposure is being made, something that can damage sharpness, especially at lower shutter speeds. Third, it cuts off your view of the subject at the moment before exposure, so that you can't actually see the instant that you are capturing.
Given that I like to shoot candids of people, often in low light, these three items are...Show more →
Disadvantages ... yes. But it should be the photographer's choice whether to turn EFCS on or off. I usually keep it off. But for f/1.2 or f/1.4 shots at 1/1000th or faster, I'll choose full mechanical shutter (EFCS off).
Sep 01, 2023 at 08:32 AM
p.5 #14Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
GMPhotography wrote:
Seriously it’s not about us as individuals no one cares what I do or even shoot this is about the Sony end users be it you need certain things or not but as a community of 1 million users. As a Pro can’t I use a A7C. Who decides that not you I can tell ya right now nor anyone else. But my 6700 at half the costs gives me all the benefits of my A7RV now does that make any sense.
Folks Im a Sony fanboy too but I see a downside somewhere it's going to be called out,...Show more →
If I'm a working pro I'm not working with any camera that doesn't offer redundancy.
Pretty sure these cameras are targeted for lightweight travel options or for people whose jobs and livelihood aren't at stake.
Seriously it’s not about us as individuals no one cares what I do or even shoot this is about the Sony end users be it you need certain things or not but as a community of 1 million users. As a Pro can’t I use a A7C. Who decides that not you I can tell ya right now nor anyone else. But my 6700 at half the costs gives me all the benefits of my A7RV now does that make any sense.
Folks Im a Sony fanboy too but I see a downside somewhere it's going to be called out,...Show more →
If I'm a working pro I'm not working with any camera that doesn't offer redundancy.
Pretty sure these cameras are targeted for lightweight travel options or for people whose jobs and livelihood aren't at stake.
Sep 01, 2023 at 09:09 AM
p.5 #15Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
Of course and I have the A7RV and I’m covered but I’m also covered with a 6700 that has the same feature set but a camera in the middle of the lineup does not than that makes zero sense and that is the point. I don’t matter in this but it’s about the abilities of the lineup and your middle camera is missing feature sets but you low cost variant has them. That’s the point that keeps getting glossed over
Remember I’m advocating for you folks on this. Even if I wanted to add this to my kit I would have to limit how I use it. Not sure that’s a good buy than
Remember I’m advocating for you folks on this. Even if I wanted to add this to my kit I would have to limit how I use it. Not sure that’s a good buy than
Sep 01, 2023 at 09:15 AM
p.5 #16Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
GMPhotography wrote:
Of course and I have the A7RV and I’m covered but I’m also covered with a 6700 that has the same feature set but a camera in the middle of the lineup does not than that makes zero sense and that is the point. I don’t matter in this but it’s about the abilities of the lineup and your middle camera is missing feature sets but you low cost variant has them. That’s the point that keeps getting glossed over
Remember I’m advocating for you folks on this. Even if I wanted to add this to my kit I would...Show more →
I think I'd say that the A7RV is the middle camera, the A1 and the A9II, with stacked sensors, are the high end, the A7Cxx and the a6700 are for a specific set of interests.
Edited on Sep 01, 2023 at 10:31 AM · View previous versions
Of course and I have the A7RV and I’m covered but I’m also covered with a 6700 that has the same feature set but a camera in the middle of the lineup does not than that makes zero sense and that is the point. I don’t matter in this but it’s about the abilities of the lineup and your middle camera is missing feature sets but you low cost variant has them. That’s the point that keeps getting glossed over
Remember I’m advocating for you folks on this. Even if I wanted to add this to my kit I would...Show more →
I think I'd say that the A7RV is the middle camera, the A1 and the A9II, with stacked sensors, are the high end, the A7Cxx and the a6700 are for a specific set of interests.
Edited on Sep 01, 2023 at 10:31 AM · View previous versions
Sep 01, 2023 at 10:20 AM
p.5 #17Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
GMPhotography wrote:
Of course and I have the A7RV and I’m covered but I’m also covered with a 6700 that has the same feature set but a camera in the middle of the lineup does not than that makes zero sense and that is the point. I don’t matter in this but it’s about the abilities of the lineup and your middle camera is missing feature sets but you low cost variant has them. That’s the point that keeps getting glossed over
Remember I’m advocating for you folks on this. Even if I wanted to add this to my kit I would...Show more →
You are lumping APS-C cameras in with the full frame lineup and you can't do that. The 6700 is the top of the line Sony APS-C and therefore offers quite a lot of features. But being that the sensor is APS-C it will be considerable cheaper than the full frame equivalent just because the sensor costs less. If the 6700 had a full frame sensor it would be twice the price.
Of course and I have the A7RV and I’m covered but I’m also covered with a 6700 that has the same feature set but a camera in the middle of the lineup does not than that makes zero sense and that is the point. I don’t matter in this but it’s about the abilities of the lineup and your middle camera is missing feature sets but you low cost variant has them. That’s the point that keeps getting glossed over
Remember I’m advocating for you folks on this. Even if I wanted to add this to my kit I would...Show more →
You are lumping APS-C cameras in with the full frame lineup and you can't do that. The 6700 is the top of the line Sony APS-C and therefore offers quite a lot of features. But being that the sensor is APS-C it will be considerable cheaper than the full frame equivalent just because the sensor costs less. If the 6700 had a full frame sensor it would be twice the price.
Sep 01, 2023 at 10:31 AM
p.5 #18Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
I’m talking feature sets not sensors . It has my A7RV feature sets the new A7C at the moment do not look like it does
Sep 01, 2023 at 11:14 AM
p.5 #19Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
gunmetal wrote:
Seems like below 1/1000 will be impossible to tell (in real photos), and even 1/2000 would be very tough to tell. Any higher than that might stand out. Apart from sports (and neither of these variants are targeting sports), what applications would involve fast apertures and high shutter speeds? Do wedding photographers find themselves shooting over 1/2000? Then again if you're a wedding photographer you probably wouldn't be shooting with just one card slot.
Both cameras still seem like fantastic travel and landscape cameras to me. But I'm open to the fact that I could be missing something.HSS (High Speed Sync) with large aperture lenses. Rather common use case and a feature that Sony specifically touts.Would someone using HSS be using a camera with only 1 card slot? I literally have no clue about HSS so legit question?
That's a totally legitimate question which prospective a7C/R/II users need to ask. The cameras are capable of HSS regardless of card slots. You're asking about who the "typical" user might be. If you're planning to shoot outdoor portraits with a wide aperture lens and strobes, then you at least need to be aware this situation exists. Initial info on the a7CM2 says it has the same EFCS only system as the original. I'm not clear whether this is also true of the a7CR.
jeffbuzz wrote
gunmetal wrote
jeffbuzz wrote
Is it a problem? You decide.Both cameras still seem like fantastic travel and landscape cameras to me. But I'm open to the fact that I could be missing something.
That's a totally legitimate question which prospective a7C/R/II users need to ask. The cameras are capable of HSS regardless of card slots. You're asking about who the "typical" user might be. If you're planning to shoot outdoor portraits with a wide aperture lens and strobes, then you at least need to be aware this situation exists. Initial info on the a7CM2 says it has the same EFCS only system as the original. I'm not clear whether this is also true of the a7CR.
Sep 01, 2023 at 11:20 AM
p.5 #20Mark Galer's Video on EFCS On-or-Off
jwpstl wrote:
Remember I’m advocating for you folks on this. Even if I wanted to add this to my kit I would have to limit how I use it. Not sure that’s a good buy thanYou are lumping APS-C cameras in with the full frame lineup and you can't do that. The 6700 is the top of the line Sony APS-C and therefore offers quite a lot of features. But being that the sensor is APS-C it will be considerable cheaper than the full frame equivalent just because the sensor costs less. If the 6700 had a full frame sensor it would be twice the price.
Indeed, FF adds to the cost significantly. Just look at the zve1, it’s smaller, more plastiky, and doesn’t even have the much hated EVF - it’s about as stripped down as a FF camera can get and it’s still $2200. Or the Sigma FP-L which is even more bare bones and it was still $2500 at introduction.
GMPhotography wrote
Of course and I have the A7RV and I’m covered but I’m also covered with a 6700 that has the same feature set but a camera in the middle of the lineup does not than that makes zero sense and that is the point. I don’t matter in this but it’s about the abilities of the lineup and your middle camera is missing feature sets but you low cost variant has them. That’s the point that keeps getting glossed overRemember I’m advocating for you folks on this. Even if I wanted to add this to my kit I would have to limit how I use it. Not sure that’s a good buy than
Indeed, FF adds to the cost significantly. Just look at the zve1, it’s smaller, more plastiky, and doesn’t even have the much hated EVF - it’s about as stripped down as a FF camera can get and it’s still $2200. Or the Sigma FP-L which is even more bare bones and it was still $2500 at introduction.
Sep 01, 2023 at 03:30 PM