Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
p.6 #1Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I saw a comparison in a video showing the 6700 grip is deeper than the a7cII and cR grips.
Craig Gillette wrote:
The A7CR definitely brings something new to the table... but isn't the gap between A7C and A7Cii minimal if you only care about stills?
- Slightly? better sensor (24Mp vs 33Mp)
- Significantly? better AF
- Slightly? better EVF
- Extra dial, extra custom button and new menus
In Europe, I just bought a new A7C for 1500 euro from Amazon, the A7CII is 2400. Is the above worth it the 900 extra euros?I keep going back and forth on whether I should return it and buy the A7CII...! In addition to the above, it seems like the grip of the A7CII is noticeable larger as well. Carrying the A7C with one hand and a wrist strap is not super comfortable... and the new one might improve with the larger grip. That's one of the few things I am not loving from the A7CII.Purely subjective with the grip. I tried the 28-200 on my A6400 a few times and it was ok, not great. I like the feel, etc., with the 18-135 a lot better. I hooked up the 28-200 on the a6700 the other day and that was better. So not sure how close the A6700 grip is to the A7Cii and A7CR but it was an improvement for me.
Craig Gillette wrote:
JustAnother wrote
JustAnother wrote
Copying this message from the rumour thread:The A7CR definitely brings something new to the table... but isn't the gap between A7C and A7Cii minimal if you only care about stills?
- Slightly? better sensor (24Mp vs 33Mp)
- Significantly? better AF
- Slightly? better EVF
- Extra dial, extra custom button and new menus
In Europe, I just bought a new A7C for 1500 euro from Amazon, the A7CII is 2400. Is the above worth it the 900 extra euros?
Aug 29, 2023 at 07:20 PM
p.6 #2Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
wind30 wrote:
Both cameras have an electronic shutter speed of 1/8000s. Importantly, neither of them features a full mechanical shutter.… 1/8000 with efcs…. I mean if you can accept that kind of Bokeh you really should be using a phone with fake Bokeh as I feel the fake Bokeh looks better.
True. At 1/4000s and especially 1/8000s, specular highlights won't look right.
Fred Miranda wrote
Not sure if this was already mentioned but the A7C II camera's mechanical shutter closing speed remains unchanged from its predecessor at 1/4000s. On the other hand, the A7CR has a faster mechanical shutter at 1/8000s.Both cameras have an electronic shutter speed of 1/8000s. Importantly, neither of them features a full mechanical shutter.
True. At 1/4000s and especially 1/8000s, specular highlights won't look right.
Aug 29, 2023 at 07:24 PM
p.6 #3Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
lensfan wrote:
New APS-C king?
A6700 vs A7R5 vs A7cR
$1400 vs $3900 vs $2999
If you really only need APS-C the A6700 is a mini A7RV as some have called it and maybe now a mini A7CR. So do you want to spend $1600 to $2500 more for it?
New APS-C king?
A6700 vs A7R5 vs A7cR
$1400 vs $3900 vs $2999
If you really only need APS-C the A6700 is a mini A7RV as some have called it and maybe now a mini A7CR. So do you want to spend $1600 to $2500 more for it?
Aug 29, 2023 at 07:27 PM
p.6 #4Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
swldstn wrote:
A6700 vs A7R5 vs A7cR$1400 vs $3900 vs $2999
If you really only need APS-C the A6700 is a mini A7RV as some have called it and maybe now a mini A7CR. So do you want to spend $1600 to $2500 more for it?
Frankly that is the bottom line. Sure it’s a Apsc sensor but its limitations are very few. Honestly I’m glad I grabbed it
lensfan wrote
New APS-C king?A6700 vs A7R5 vs A7cR
If you really only need APS-C the A6700 is a mini A7RV as some have called it and maybe now a mini A7CR. So do you want to spend $1600 to $2500 more for it?
Frankly that is the bottom line. Sure it’s a Apsc sensor but its limitations are very few. Honestly I’m glad I grabbed it
Aug 29, 2023 at 07:30 PM
p.6 #5Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I really like Sony's idea of making a compact series of cameras. The cameras in the main line up keep getting bigger as more features get added, and when using big lenses sometimes bigger bodies balance a lot better. But other times all you want is a small camera that doesn't sacrifice image quality. Personally I just don't understand why they would not put a fully mechanical shutter in a 2-3k camera. Maybe the reviews will surprise us, but I doubt they some how improved the readout times over the a7iv and a7rv such that the fully electronic shutter can be used for action.
Aug 29, 2023 at 07:38 PM
p.6 #6Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
I still have it and need to wear ear plugs whenever that shutter goes off. IBIS is very helpful for my photography as the majority of lenses I use have no stabilization and when travelling I don’t have a tripod.
Yes, it's a bit loud, but it's also small and light, and I would pick it over any of the A7c models (and I'm still young enough that I can hand-hold a camera without needing IBIS).
I still have it and need to wear ear plugs whenever that shutter goes off. IBIS is very helpful for my photography as the majority of lenses I use have no stabilization and when travelling I don’t have a tripod.
Yes, it's a bit loud, but it's also small and light, and I would pick it over any of the A7c models (and I'm still young enough that I can hand-hold a camera without needing IBIS).
Aug 29, 2023 at 07:51 PM
p.6 #7Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
It’s only better if one actually uses those features. One feature that is very high on my list is compact size and weight for travel and this is where the A7cr really shines compared to other options.
Obviously they did the market research that indicated totals sales of the a7rV and a7cr will be better than the a7rV alone even with the R&D costs for the a7cr.
I find the a7RV too small as it is. My knuckles are smashed against the 200-600 and I had to add a Smallrig base to get my pinky finger on the grip even with a smaller lens like the 100-400. I don't know how people can handle it. You guys are lucky.
EBH
It’s only better if one actually uses those features. One feature that is very high on my list is compact size and weight for travel and this is where the A7cr really shines compared to other options.
Obviously they did the market research that indicated totals sales of the a7rV and a7cr will be better than the a7rV alone even with the R&D costs for the a7cr.
I find the a7RV too small as it is. My knuckles are smashed against the 200-600 and I had to add a Smallrig base to get my pinky finger on the grip even with a smaller lens like the 100-400. I don't know how people can handle it. You guys are lucky.
EBH
Aug 29, 2023 at 07:53 PM
p.6 #8Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
molson wrote:
Yes, it's a bit loud, but it's also small and light, and I would pick it over any of the A7c models (and I'm still young enough that I can hand-hold a camera without needing IBIS).
I find I rely on ibis quite a bit in dim light. I know we have amazing noise reduction these days, but nothing like using lower iso. I can live with a bit of subject motion…that looks natural, but having background that is fuzzy due to camera movement is automatic trash bucket for me.
The other area where today’s cameras really shine compared to the A7R is the autofocus with subject recognition and tracking. I still use my A7R for landscapes where it excels, but for travel it now stays home.
chez wrote
I still have it and need to wear ear plugs whenever that shutter goes off. IBIS is very helpful for my photography as the majority of lenses I use have no stabilization and when travelling I don’t have a tripod.Yes, it's a bit loud, but it's also small and light, and I would pick it over any of the A7c models (and I'm still young enough that I can hand-hold a camera without needing IBIS).
I find I rely on ibis quite a bit in dim light. I know we have amazing noise reduction these days, but nothing like using lower iso. I can live with a bit of subject motion…that looks natural, but having background that is fuzzy due to camera movement is automatic trash bucket for me.
The other area where today’s cameras really shine compared to the A7R is the autofocus with subject recognition and tracking. I still use my A7R for landscapes where it excels, but for travel it now stays home.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:00 PM
p.6 #9Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
nhsonyshooter wrote
I'm just tired of having to make compromises. Put everything you got in an A7C body. Stop artificially handicapping a camera to not step on another's toes. That is what they continue to do. That is what they did here again. Gimp on EVF, rear LCD, sensor read speeds, list goes on and on etc.... Sony could put the best of everything they have in an A7c body and it would be incredible. It would also still be waaaay cheaper than what people pay for Lecia bodies. It would cost no more R&D because they have all the components. Just do it and charge more. That's what they did at the time with RX1Rii (that was the ultimate look what we can do in a small package camera) and that camera still has a cult following today. It would be one thing if I thought they couldn't do it. But that is not the case. They are choosing not to do it, and I'm annoyed Yup! it's all about me and what I want Ok. I feel better. ThanksThey are completely irrelevant. So wrong again.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:23 PM
p.6 #10Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Fred Miranda wrote:
With the new cameras, you can choose between a full electronic shutter or EFCS only.
Since EFCS will affect bokeh, and full electronic shutter with slow readout speed will produce rolling shutter effect, this camera is really not marketed towards to photographers with fast 1.2 and 1.4 GM lenses.
I really don't understand why Sony is doing this.
With the new cameras, you can choose between a full electronic shutter or EFCS only.
Since EFCS will affect bokeh, and full electronic shutter with slow readout speed will produce rolling shutter effect, this camera is really not marketed towards to photographers with fast 1.2 and 1.4 GM lenses.
I really don't understand why Sony is doing this.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:24 PM
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p.6 #11Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Younjulius wrote:
nhsonyshooter wrote
I'm just tired of having to make compromises. Put everything you got in an A7C body. Stop artificially handicapping a camera to not step on another's toes. That is what they continue to do. That is what they did here again. Gimp on EVF, rear LCD, sensor read speeds, list goes on and on etc.... Sony could put the best of everything they have in an A7c body and it would be incredible. It would also still be waaaay cheaper than what people pay for Lecia bodies. It would cost no more R&D because they have all the components. Just do it and charge more. That's what they did at the time with RX1Rii (that was the ultimate look what we can do in a small package camera) and that camera still has a cult following today. It would be one thing if I thought they couldn't do it. But that is not the case. They are choosing not to do it, and I'm annoyed Yup! it's all about me and what I want Ok. I feel better. ThanksI'd happily pay that for everything in that form factor.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:25 PM
p.6 #12Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I’m glad Sony did the Sony a7cR.
But, that likely shuts the door on an RX1R successor.
I have a feeling that in Sony’s mind, the a7cR is their Q3 competitor.
But, that likely shuts the door on an RX1R successor.
I have a feeling that in Sony’s mind, the a7cR is their Q3 competitor.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:32 PM
p.6 #13Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Surely my next camera.
Just wondering, why they have not addressed flash sync speed. Do they use a different shutter on non-a7c* cameras?
Just wondering, why they have not addressed flash sync speed. Do they use a different shutter on non-a7c* cameras?
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:38 PM
p.6 #14Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
FMTopFan wrote:
Since EFCS will affect bokeh, and full electronic shutter with slow readout speed will produce rolling shutter effect, this camera is really not marketed towards to photographers with fast 1.2 and 1.4 GM lenses.
I really don't understand why Sony is doing this.
I think there's an argument to be made that the smallest cameras aren't the best fit for the biggest lenses anyway, but I don't see the fast apertures as a showstopper for use on either camera. You still have to be shooting at 1/1000th or over to see the issue, and you've got the faked ISO50 and ND filters if you find yourself in a lighting scenario where you can't otherwise keep the shutter speed down.
Fred Miranda wrote
With the new cameras, you can choose between a full electronic shutter or EFCS only.I really don't understand why Sony is doing this.
I think there's an argument to be made that the smallest cameras aren't the best fit for the biggest lenses anyway, but I don't see the fast apertures as a showstopper for use on either camera. You still have to be shooting at 1/1000th or over to see the issue, and you've got the faked ISO50 and ND filters if you find yourself in a lighting scenario where you can't otherwise keep the shutter speed down.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:40 PM
p.6 #15Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
nhsonyshooter wrote:
chez wrote
nhsonyshooter wrote
I'm just tired of having to make compromises. Put everything you got in an A7C body. Stop artificially handicapping a camera to not step on another's toes. That is what they continue to do. That is what they did here again. Gimp on EVF, rear LCD, sensor read speeds, list goes on and on etc.... Sony could put the best of everything they have in an A7c body and it would be incredible. It would also still be waaaay cheaper than what people pay for Lecia bodies. It would cost no more R&D because they have all the components. Just do it and charge more. That's what they did at the time with RX1Rii (that was the ultimate look what we can do in a small package camera) and that camera still has a cult following today. It would be one thing if I thought they couldn't do it. But that is not the case. They are choosing not to do it, and I'm annoyed Yup! it's all about me and what I want Ok. I feel better. ThanksYeh, we’ll see. Time will tell but history tells even more.😌
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:47 PM
p.6 #16Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
FMTopFan wrote:
Fred Miranda wrote
With the new cameras, you can choose between a full electronic shutter or EFCS only.I really don't understand why Sony is doing this.
Not everyone shoots 1.2 or even 1.4 lenses. Many shoot slower smaller lenses and don’t obsess over bokeh.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:50 PM
p.6 #17Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
nhsonyshooter wrote
Wish they would make a high end version of the A7c body. I'd be willing to pay for it. Something like an A1 in an A7C body. Something for photographers, screw video spec's. I had high hopes for the 7CR but I'll keep waiting. Continue to suffer with my RVI think there is a definite different use case for the A1 cameras and the A7c(r) cameras.
Yeah. I remember everyone with an A9 saying 24mp is the sweet spot. Who needs more?Fast sensor read speeds are not all about shooting 30fps all the time and short bursts don't generate much heat. Like I said I could care less about video for this form factor so heat is not the issue. The buttons they have now are fine. The lcd generates minimal heat as well so that could easily be upgraded to higher quality. The RV mechanism coukd have easily been used. Rather than the crap flip screen.Same with a higher quality view finder.Prefer it on the left side honestly. These are all easy things Sony could address. Like I said they just choose not too. It's unfortunate but predictable at the same tine.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:52 PM
p.6 #18Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
nhsonyshooter wrote:
chez wrote
nhsonyshooter wrote
I'm just tired of having to make compromises. Put everything you got in an A7C body. Stop artificially handicapping a camera to not step on another's toes. That is what they continue to do. That is what they did here again. Gimp on EVF, rear LCD, sensor read speeds, list goes on and on etc.... Sony could put the best of everything they have in an A7c body and it would be incredible. It would also still be waaaay cheaper than what people pay for Lecia bodies. It would cost no more R&D because they have all the components. Just do it and charge more. That's what they did at the time with RX1Rii (that was the ultimate look what we can do in a small package camera) and that camera still has a cult following today. It would be one thing if I thought they couldn't do it. But that is not the case. They are choosing not to do it, and I'm annoyed Yup! it's all about me and what I want Ok. I feel better. ThanksYeh, we’ll see. Time will tell but history tells even moretime.
quote]
I'm speaking for myself not the industry. Trust me, they are irrelevant.
Aug 29, 2023 at 08:56 PM
p.6 #19Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
chez wrote:
Since EFCS will affect bokeh, and full electronic shutter with slow readout speed will produce rolling shutter effect, this camera is really not marketed towards to photographers with fast 1.2 and 1.4 GM lenses.
I really don't understand why Sony is doing this.Not everyone shoots 1.2 or even 1.4 lenses. Many shoot slower smaller lenses and don’t obsess over bokeh.
The Bokeh is really bad at 1/8000…. U need to be blind not to notice it, nothing about obsessing over Bokeh.
If u don’t use 1/8000 because u have f2.8 lens only, sure that is a good reason. But not many people realise the big negative of not being able to use f1.4 lens in daylight due to the efcs.
That is the single biggest deal breaker for a7c to me and it is not fixed in a7cii.
FMTopFan wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
With the new cameras, you can choose between a full electronic shutter or EFCS only.I really don't understand why Sony is doing this.
The Bokeh is really bad at 1/8000…. U need to be blind not to notice it, nothing about obsessing over Bokeh.
If u don’t use 1/8000 because u have f2.8 lens only, sure that is a good reason. But not many people realise the big negative of not being able to use f1.4 lens in daylight due to the efcs.
That is the single biggest deal breaker for a7c to me and it is not fixed in a7cii.
Aug 29, 2023 at 09:01 PM
p.6 #20Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
🫣
I find it ironic that on launch day of A7cR, all the headlines should be about how great Sony is, how smart their engineers are, how much they listen to photographers, how it is a revolutionary product etc, but...
Instead, by my estimate 90% of "Most Popular" posts on DPReview are talking about how "trashy" the EVF, LCD and shutter are.
Then there is Richard Butler from DPReview defending Sony in every technical way possible.
I wouldn't go so far to say Sony has mangled this release, but it's NOT a good look for them right now.
Do you think so? If yes, please like!
I find it ironic that on launch day of A7cR, all the headlines should be about how great Sony is, how smart their engineers are, how much they listen to photographers, how it is a revolutionary product etc, but...
Instead, by my estimate 90% of "Most Popular" posts on DPReview are talking about how "trashy" the EVF, LCD and shutter are.
Then there is Richard Butler from DPReview defending Sony in every technical way possible.
I wouldn't go so far to say Sony has mangled this release, but it's NOT a good look for them right now.
Do you think so? If yes, please like!
Aug 29, 2023 at 09:04 PM