p.21 #2 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
I have an a7IV and for a while now I've always had an APSC camera as my second body, mainly due to the smaller size and weight.
The a7C II though now is very tempting and I realized if I was to get that plus the Sony 55mm f/1.8, it's actually lighter than my Fuji X-S20 + 33mm f/1.4. Even if I went for something like the Sigma 50mm f/2 as a carry around lens, it's only a few grams heavier than the FF kit.
The only issue now is price. It's $3299 AUD at launch and I think in about 3-6 months it will hopefully drop to under $3k, ideally I would want to wait to it's around $2700 but the G.A.S is already strong. Travelling with the FE PZ 16-35mm and the Sigma 50mm f/2 would be very light and easy.
p.21 #3 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
marcelography wrote:
all this talk about the A7CR and A7Cii not having a mechanical shutter... are for serious?
The camera DOES have a mechanical shutter, just with an electronic first curtain which in real life will pretty much not make any distinguishable difference. I have been shooting with the A7C for more than a year and not once I have felt that images have been affected. It's only on specific bokeh shots that it might be visible.
Not even on the full sized A7 series I would use the full mechanical shutter as it is pretty loud and sounds like optimus prime sneezing.
The question is, are you serious?
If the camera DOES have a mechanical shutter, what do you call cameras with both first and second curtain mechanical shutters? Maybe double mechanical shutter?
It's fair to say it has half a mechanical shutter. If that statement offends you, you can't deny it DOES NOT have a complete mechanical shutter as found on, until fairly recently, any other camera said to have a (Focal Plane) shutter.
If you are happy without a first curtain mechanical shutter, well, great. I don't think anyone has an issue with that.
So why does it bother you if other people want a complete mechanical shutter?
p.21 #4 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Choderboy wrote:
The question is, are you serious?
If the camera DOES have a mechanical shutter, what do you call cameras with both first and second curtain mechanical shutters? Maybe double mechanical shutter?
It's fair to say it has half a mechanical shutter. If that statement offends you, you can't deny it DOES NOT have a complete mechanical shutter as found on, until fairly recently, any other camera said to have a (Focal Plane) shutter.
If you are happy without a first curtain mechanical shutter, well, great. I don't think anyone has an issue with that.
So why does it bother you if other people want a complete mechanical shutter?
I think it's a bit of a confusing terminology as much as anything - I've read through a lot of these threads with interest and they can be quite confusing to read as full/double mechanical shutter has been referred to as just mechanical. But there's no question that the A7C (and A1 etc) also have a mechanical shutter (i've never heard of it referred to as half!). I don't think anyone here is right or wrong, it just is what it is.
I think the issue is somewhat overblown, personally - reading this forum it sounds like Sony have made the biggest product mistake since the Titanic. But I suspect when it's actually released and people start using it they'll realise it's going to be a pretty amazing bit of kit for the size and money.
I wonder how many people actually use the full shutter anyway? Doesn't EFCS default to On for most Sony mirrorless cameras? I don't think I've ever used the full/double shutter because of the noise and image softening but can't remember if changing it is part of my setup workflow or not. I've actually gone back and tried to find examples of cut bokeh in my photos but haven't been able to yet. I love shooting wide open so I thought I would see more. Depends on your typical shooting environment I guess.
p.21 #5 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Choderboy wrote:
The question is, are you serious?
If the camera DOES have a mechanical shutter, what do you call cameras with both first and second curtain mechanical shutters? Maybe double mechanical shutter?
It's fair to say it has half a mechanical shutter. If that statement offends you, you can't deny it DOES NOT have a complete mechanical shutter as found on, until fairly recently, any other camera said to have a (Focal Plane) shutter.
If you are happy without a first curtain mechanical shutter, well, great. I don't think anyone has an issue with that.
So why does it bother you if other people want a complete mechanical shutter?
Well, it doesn't bother me at all whether it has a full mechanical shutter or just the second curtain (I have been shooting with EFCS since my first A7 series with no issues whatsoever), though I know that for some users it can be a deal breaker.
The way Sony has been communicating their shutter modes hasn't been very clear - it's just that it's NOT the case of it NOT having A mechanical shutter.
It's more a matter of semantics really... electronic shutter / half mechanical shutter / full mechanic shutter should have a standardised way to be addressed as otherwise it leads to confusion, like the one we are following on the thread.
p.21 #6 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
newdom wrote:
I think the issue is somewhat overblown, personally - reading this forum it sounds like Sony have made the biggest product mistake since the Titanic. But I suspect when it's actually released and people start using it they'll realise it's going to be a pretty amazing bit of kit for the size and money.
I wonder how many people actually use the full shutter anyway? Doesn't EFCS default to On for most Sony mirrorless cameras? I don't think I've ever used the full/double shutter because of the noise and image softening but can't remember if changing it is part of my setup workflow or not. I've actually gone back and tried to find examples of cut bokeh in my photos but haven't been able to yet. I love shooting wide open so I thought I would see more. Depends on your typical shooting environment I guess. ...Show more →
I agree - it is overblown, as it really depends on your shooting habits, e.g. if you like wide-open portraits in full sun on the beach then you can most likely use electronic shutter (given you can convince your models to be still ).
Hear me out though, A7C series is widely regarded as a travel cam. When I travel, it's often to sunny places but with A7C and a fast lens I can only stop down to shoot my kids running around on the beach or splashing in the water. Otherwise I'd need to wade through a number of shots with either distorted limbs or degraded bokeh hoping I can find a few keepers. It's not the end of the world, but it's just a crappy situation to be in with a new cam released in 2023 (and the new sensors are even slower than the one in the original A7C)...
p.21 #7 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
j4nu wrote:
I agree - it is overblown, as it really depends on your shooting habits, e.g. if you like wide-open portraits in full sun on the beach then you can most likely use electronic shutter (given you can convince your models to be still ).
Hear me out though, A7C series is widely regarded as a travel cam. When I travel, it's often to sunny places but with A7C and a fast lens I can only stop down to shoot my kids running around on the beach or splashing in the water. Otherwise I'd need to wade through a number of shots with either distorted limbs or degraded bokeh hoping I can find a few keepers. It's not the end of the world, but it's just a crappy situation to be in with a new cam released in 2023 (and the new sensors are even slower than the one in the original A7C)... ...Show more →
Yeah, it's a pass from me as well. Maybe I'll pick up an a6700 instead. Or I'll just stay with my Nikon and Canon bodies.
Funny how Sony decides to gimp their new cameras to not "take away sales" from their more expensive options, only for it to drive customers to purchase cheaper cameras instead (or none at all).
p.21 #8 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
...
Funny how Sony decides to gimp their new cameras to not "take away sales" from their more expensive options, only for it to drive customers to purchase cheaper cameras instead (or none at all).
Sorry, but it seems that you (and others here) don't understand that Sony created a new product line with the C-Line.
Focus on small bodies with EVF and rangefinder style!
People seriously looking for something like this will not make any comparison to other Sony models or even the competition, as there is no other option in the market today!
I think these new models will be successful in the markets where the A7c was successfull too.
Maybe it's nothing for you guys here, but Sony offers you a lot of other options.
So stop whining and buy what you like or need.
p.21 #9 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
You’re missing the issue as for folks that can’t buy the A7C our options are slipping as there is only so much we can buy. All or nothing stuff don’t work. We still need gear that does fill our basket or it may wind up switching brands. No one wants to but it may come to that. For me with modern feature sets. It’s either A7RV and the 6700. So buy it or not can cause issue as nothing we can buy at some point. Long term view might be a issue
p.21 #10 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Boy, this is tough for Sony. Produce a compact camera line with no real competition and get persecuted for it. But we can praise Canon for having nothing in mirrorless that competes on the resolution front, or size front, in a full frame camera? I guess they should be praised for not producing a compact full frame camera.
I don't think this was intended to be a pro level camera, because I doubt that there is a pro market for this, that is sustainable at a higher price level (that would have come with the kitchen sink feature set, assuming Sony could have delivered it in this small a package). I believe there is a larger market for theses cameras at this price point than it would have been at let's say $1000-$1500+ more. Had they released that, then another set of people would bitch about the price.
Sorry, I'm in the CICU with my son after surgery (he's doing well), so my perspective may be a little jaded at the moment.
p.21 #11 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Hope he does well Tim. My issue is amount of different styles Sony is making. No real issue over the C except it won’t work for me but my choices what to buy if any are really down to 1 the A7RV. I would have thought a good time as these C to throw the A1 II on the market. I just think overall in every aspect the still shooters and it’s market are sliding away. It’s a video world it seems , I get that.
Guess what does kinda bug me is my backup is a APSc format. Really nothing as good as the A7RV with its new AF and such. Like to see a combo A1 / A7RV real soon on the market.
p.21 #12 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
Well, at $3500 (or $3000 if you're lucky), you could have a 2nd a7R V. I realize that's significantly more than than the a6700 though. And when the a1 II drops, I will be utterly shocked if it doesn't have the AI processor (maybe beefed up) from the a7R V. Then you'll have the fast readout from the stacked sensor and the stickiness you like from the a7R V.
Sony has been iterating, which means at certain points in time things may seem out of kilter, but I prefer that approach vs stagnation.
He's doing well, he has end stage pulmonary hypertension, so they did a reverse Potts shunt to try to protect his heart from the high pressure. So in through the chest, on a heart/lung machine, etc. Tough to see someone you love have to go through that, let alone one of your children.
GMPhotography wrote:
Hope he does well Tim. My issue is amount of different styles Sony is making. No real issue over the C except it won’t work for me but my choices what to buy if any are really down to 1 the A7RV. I would have thought a good time as these C to throw the A1 II on the market. I just think overall in every aspect the still shooters and it’s market are sliding away. It’s a video world it seems , I get that.
Guess what does kinda bug me is my backup is a APSc format. Really nothing as good as the A7RV with its new AF and such. Like to see a combo A1 / A7RV real soon on the market. ...Show more →
p.21 #14 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
prh5551 wrote:
The difference between the CR and the 7V is............4 OUNCES !!!!!!
If you guys can't handle 4 ounces.....you have bigger problems.
It's not the physical weight that's an issue. Smaller cameras are more fun to use, and people pair them with smaller and lighter lenses, hence making the whole kit smaller and lighter to carry and use. A7C cameras also don't look as generic as every other camera. There are many reasons to pick a smaller and lighter camera over bigger and more capable cameras. Weight is just a small factor in the whole equation.
p.21 #16 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
prh5551 wrote:
The difference between the CR and the 7V is............4 OUNCES !!!!!!
If you guys can't handle 4 ounces.....you have bigger problems.
Lame flex. 😂
It’s 7.3 oz, but weight is not the only factor. There are other benefits with smaller bodies and lenses. Though for backcountry hikes and international carry on bags, every gram counts.
p.21 #17 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
prh5551 wrote:
The difference between the CR and the 7V is............4 OUNCES !!!!!!
If you guys can't handle 4 ounces.....you have bigger problems.
Smallness and lightness change how and what you shoot and how your social environment responds to you.
Smallness was the whole reason that the Leica originally came into existence and the primary reason for its popularity among documentary, street, and photojournalist photographers.
Plus, one tends to use smaller lenses on the A7Cxx bodies and larger lenses on the A7RV. Once you put a large lens on the A7RV, the difference in size and weight becomes much larger. An A7Cxx with a Sony 50/2.5 G is a very different set-up than an A7RV with a Sony 50mm/1.4 GM.
A lot depends on how and what you like to shoot. There is no "correct" answer.
p.21 #18 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
tsdevine wrote:
Well, at $3500 (or $3000 if you're lucky), you could have a 2nd a7R V. I realize that's significantly more than than the a6700 though. And when the a1 II drops, I will be utterly shocked if it doesn't have the AI processor (maybe beefed up) from the a7R V. Then you'll have the fast readout from the stacked sensor and the stickiness you like from the a7R V.
Sony has been iterating, which means at certain points in time things may seem out of kilter, but I prefer that approach vs stagnation.
He's doing well, he has end stage pulmonary hypertension, so they did a reverse Potts shunt to try to protect his heart from the high pressure. So in through the chest, on a heart/lung machine, etc. Tough to see someone you love have to go through that, let alone one of your children.
p.21 #20 · Official: Sony A7C II, A7CR and FE 16-35mm f/2.8 GM II
tsdevine wrote:
Boy, this is tough for Sony. Produce a compact camera line with no real competition and get persecuted for it. But we can praise Canon for having nothing in mirrorless that competes on the resolution front, or size front, in a full frame camera? I guess they should be praised for not producing a compact full frame camera.
I don't think this was intended to be a pro level camera, because I doubt that there is a pro market for this, that is sustainable at a higher price level (that would have come with the kitchen sink feature set, assuming Sony could have delivered it in this small a package). I believe there is a larger market for theses cameras at this price point than it would have been at let's say $1000-$1500+ more. Had they released that, then another set of people would bitch about the price.
Sorry, I'm in the CICU with my son after surgery (he's doing well), so my perspective may be a little jaded at the moment. ...Show more →
Many best wishes for your son, Tim. Nothing much is harder than what you are doing. Knowing how you are here, I'm sure you are doing it well.
).
but with A7C and a fast lens I can only stop down to shoot my kids running around on the beach or splashing in the water. Otherwise I'd need to wade through a number of shots with either distorted limbs or degraded bokeh hoping I can find a few keepers. It's not the end of the world, but it's just a crappy situation to be in with a new cam released in 2023 (and the new sensors are even slower than the one in the original A7C)...